Then the other 5 bottles in the shipment would also be heat damaged, even if they didn’t show signs of seepage. My guess is a single cork with a bad seal, and it’s good to drink in the very near term, but I wouldn’t push it given some exposure to oxygen.
At any rate, the vendor - TKWine of Torrance, CA - has been great. In fact, they just offered a full refund. But I’m a little torn.
- If this was caused by a faulty cork, it’s perfectly reasonable to expect them to replace the bottle, right? And there’s a fair likelihood that the wine will be spoiled, correct?
- But if this was caused by shaking/jostling in transit, it’s not really their fault. And they won’t be able to re-sell the bottle, will they? I was hoping to gift this wine, but if we think it’s probably okay, I could just “gift” it to myself this weekend. Maybe work out a token discount with them? So everyone’s happy (enough) and they don’t have to lose a $150 bottle.
You’re over thinking it. If they promised to replace the bottle, kudos to them and that’s the company I want to deal with.
If it was caused by shaking in transit, no it isn’t their fault but it’s their product. Think about it. If you ordered a new Ford and they said they’d ship it out to your local dealer and somehow it got vandalized or smashed on the way to the dealer, would that not be their fault? They chose the shipper, not you. If the shipper wasn’t instructed to be extra careful and simply treated the package as a “regular” package, the shipper isn’t at fault. And if the seller didn’t know that there was a leaky cork, they should have a claim against the manufacturer. In no case should it be your problem.
It won’t happen, but ideally this should go back to the producer and from him back to the cork supplier. Their closure failed.
BTW, I don’t think your wine got baked or heated up enough to boil out. I had some wine shipped from NJ to south CA. It arrived today. Fine condition. Of course that Fed Ex truck may have taken a different route, and it’s a bit late to ship, but that doesn’t seem like your problem.
BTW, the fact that the Fed Ex truck showed up at 9:00 or at a neighbor doesn’t matter. Fed Ex has its own trucks and they also contract out. So the truck that you saw may not have had any idea that there was a package ready for you.
I drank it from magnum last night at an event; far and away the wine of the night, but at least fifteen years from being ready. If you open now, and if the bottle is pristine, it will be good, but still too young; if it was damaged, a great pity. Either way interesting, but not a good solution. Get your money back, and buy a pristine bottle!
If it sat on a truck in Nashville over the weekend, it was miserably hot and I would drink ALL of the wines you received sooner rather than later. FYI - I’m in the same general area as you and I stopped all shipments back in early April. Too many days over 80 degrees for shipping and the weather is way to unpredictable.
So it sounds like I gratefully accept the refund and reward the generous vendor with more business. But this discussion has started me thinking (and worrying) about the five other bottles in the shipment. None of them show any signs of damage whatsoever. I realize this isn’t definitive, but there was no other leakage, nor even a protruding cork on any of the other five bottles. And I was hoping to cellar four of the five (along with the damaged Togni). So a few more questions for you, if you’ll continue to indulge me:
1) What caused the damage to the Togni?
Admittedly, I’m no expert, but it seems that there isn’t even a consensus among experts here. The fact that the cork was indented (instead of protruding) seemed like fair evidence to me that this was not heat damage. But maybe that doesn’t matter? Or maybe just wishful thinking? How convinced (or certain) are you that this is (or is not) heat damage?
2) If it is heat damage, how affected will my other five bottles be?
Again - they show no outward signs of damage. Is it possible a little heat shock - without any oxidation brought on by a compromised cork - won’t have a long-term effect? Maybe the heat only killed the Togni because the cork was loose or faulty? Again - if you don’t mind - let me know how confident you are in your assessment. “Based on 30 years of experience, I’m 90% sure all of your bottles are compromised and should be opened right away.” Or “Your wine is toast, but I’m only 4% sure since I don’t actually know anything about wine. I thought this was a site about Vikings.”
3) If the other five (outwardly undamaged) bottles were yours, what would you do with them?
Four of the five are pretty pricey and were meant for the cellar. Based on your assessment of question #1 and #2, would you still cellar them, or accept that they’re possibly (probably?) damaged, and drink them now?
One more time - you guys have no idea how grateful I am for all of the feedback. This forum is an amazing resource, and I really appreciate all of you.
Ron
- Who knows.
- I’ve had cooked wine and while you still have some of the fruit flavors, it just seems flat or a little dead. I’d open one and see what you think.
- See #2. I would do a test opening and then decide.
You can’t really tell what caused the wine to leak, but recessed corks do happen with wines exposed to heat. Basically, the heat induced expansion causes some wine to seep around a somewhat loose fitting cork. Then, when the temperature drops, it pulls the cork back in, with the wine and wet cork causing a better seal. A recessed cork isn’t conclusive one way or the other, but it certainly can happen with heat exposure.
-Al
Let’s pretend that you only ordered the five bottles and not the leaker. They all show up looking like they do, and you’re happy, not expecting any heat damage. You are only doubting them due to that one leaker. Maybe that was simply a bad cork, maybe they are all cooked. You just don’t know. That’s the problem. Many wines in your cellar already may have been subject to the same conditions, and you just don’t know.
Great points. If it hadn’t been for the Togni, the other five bottles would all be in the cellar, and I would be blissfully ignorant of any potential damage. And you’re right - there are probably plenty of bottles I’m holding that are already head damaged, corked, etc. My only thinking here is this:
- If we’re reasonably sure all of the wine saw excessive heat, and
- If we’re convinced that such heat will ruin aging potential (even on the non-leakage wines), and
- If we think that drinking heat-damaged wine now will be a lot better than 10 years from now,
It seems like I should use the Togni as an excuse to drink the rest of them soon. But if any of those assumptions are wrong, I’d much rather cellar them. Even if heat caused the Togni to leak, I’m not necessarily convinced that it really damaged the other five. Bad logic? But maybe assumption #3 is the most important. If wine is damaged by heat, will it taste bad right away, or will it gradually turn bad with aging?
Thanks again, and thanks for putting up with all of my follow-up questions.
If a wine was exposed to excessive heat, it won’t taste bad right away. It may not even taste bad 10 years later, there are a lot of variables. It’s a bit of a crap-shoot, but aging wine is always that way.
-Al
I don’t think it is the same bottle for 2 reasons:
- I does not make sense that the cork would be depressed if it were heat damaged. I would expect the cork to be pushed out.
- In the before picture, there are scuff marks above and below the I in Togni and also one just the left of the mark below the I. In the damaged picture, there is still a mark above the I, but it looks to be from the wine and there are no marks below or to the left of the I.
Also, the hole in the capsule looks to be dead center in the before picture, but to the side in the after.
And the scuff mark at the bottom looks different too, with a concentrated dot in the after picture.
Anybody on here a dermatologist? They are pretty good at spotting difference in marks.
If you look closely the holes are in the same spot, it is just the perspective of the “after” photo that shortens the foreground. The hole is in what appears to be a leaf next to a bunch of grapes. In both pictures the hole is in the same place.
The scuffs, to me at least, also look the same in both photos.