Winebid claims to be able to discern seepage without removing foils, and I think if one really inspect the foils carefully the crusty, sticky wine residual is visible right at the bottom of the foil, and when this small seepage is exposed to air it tends to harden at the foil bottom. Of course if it’s a really bad seeper the label will be soiled as well – maybe heavily – suggesting possible heat damage as well. Slight seepage on old bottles doesn’t bother me much, nor does a slightly depressed cork, but no slightly protruding corks for me thanks . . . but that’s just me.
I have no position on the question posed in the OP, but it is funny to read so many willing to buy at auction, and willing to buy at auction even bottles with signs of seepage, and yet the “where has your wine been” chorus that chimes in every time PC is mentioned could wake the dead. I have no idea if these are the same people, but it amuses me how easily people accept the idea of buying bottles at auction that may have changed hands 10 times already.
definitely revoked. I thought all Kaiser doctors only drank grand cru domaine Leroy!?
Everyone knows HMOs are where the big bucks are!
Why do you think I’m asking Joe for a job?
Speaking of which…does Puligny count as a hyphenated Montrachet?
definitely revoked. I thought all Kaiser doctors only drank grand cru domaine Leroy!?[/quote]
In Marin county it’s the plumbers that are drinking grand cru Leroy. Us second class Kaiser docs have to settle for 1er maison
In Marin county it’s the plumbers that are drinking grand cru Leroy. Us second class Kaiser docs have to settle for 1er maison[/quote]
beginning to think the one Kaiser doctor I know who only drink Domaine Leroy might be the exception, not the rule ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
Isn’t he not married also? Couple more expenses with kids. Wait a minute…Chien’s not married either! Go Domaine or go home Fred! 
Got too many vices to go Domaine. Going to have to wait for you and Fu to bring that to the offline…and not that SLB or SoS stuff either, the good stuff! ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
.
I just bought an '83 Poyferre, '83 St-Pierre, and '75 Brane-Cantenac from HDH, and the listings did say corroded capsule… I should have known, and the lesson learned this time, is that frequently translates to SoS. All 3 have significant mold on the cork, smell of long-ago oxidized wine, if just *very slightly, and the capsules were fully stuck to the bottle indicating there was definitely moisture/seepage which eventually dried.
The Brane-Cantenac has a slightly soft (top of the) cork, though the other two seem to have solid corks. The levels for all 3 bottles are reasonable, very top shoulder for the '83’s and the Brane is just slightly lower. So looks like no heat damage, but I’m holding my breath that at least one or two aren’t ruined…
Reviving this old thread as an appropriate place to seek advice on the following (asking for a friend…):
A handful of trophy wines, all magnums if that matters, are evidencing some seepage, which he says is unquestionably due to short-term (and relatively modest) heat exposure which occurred over no more than 72 hours. The ambient temperature in the cellar never got above 82 during that period, and the affected bottles had been well stored and in pristine shape up until then. The vast majority of his cellar shows no damage – only a select few magnums suffered this. Presumably the damage is done, and we know this can’t be assessed until each bottle is tasted, so his and my question is this: do these circumstances suggest he should rush to consume the bottles showing signs of seepage, or is it more the case that the passage of time poses no additional negative impact. Said another way, does this kind of heat damage risk compounding its impact in some way, even assuming bulletproof storage going forward of course. If the latter, he would then be able to drink these based on the usual factors, checking in on those lottery tickets from time to time without affecting his proverbial odds…
Thanks in advance,
Jonathan
I would drink them up sooner rather than later; I don’t believe heat damaged wines “get better” or “recover” with additional cellaring.
I just bought a 2004 Spatlese from a reputable wine shop this weekend and only noticed that the neck was a bit sticky once I got home. See the above comments about Rieslings seepage make me feel better (although, it wasn’t an expensive bottle and if it’s bad, the store will likely make it up to me).
Color matters the most. Great color will trump all.
I have some bottles of 2010 Hudelot-Noellat burgs, which are notorious for being leakers. No idea why, I assume it was something gone wrong with the bottling line. I have a few bottles of Clos Vougeot from that year, all of them turned out to be seeping when I was doing locker inventory last year. I brought them home, cleaned them up, and figured the only thing I could do was open them soon, sadly. I drank the first one, and it was pristine, and still very youthful, no sign of any air ingress problem at all. So I put the remaining two back in my locker, but now standing up. I’m hopeful that they are actually sealed more tightly now than with just a good cork. All to say I’m not convinced your mags are necessarily compromised. BTW, it makes sense that they were the ones that had problems, since, with twice the liquid volume to expand in the bottle, they are more likely to exceed the bottle volume and push liquid out past the cork.
I take a risk on SOS on occasion if the colour looks good. Have had some superb seepers in my day, including some of my best wine experiences of all time, including a 1961 Gruaud Larose and a 1943 Monfrotino. Both had mid-low shoulder levels but good, clear colour. Both were superb. Also had a lot of good Champagne with seepeage (even some half full bottles). It all depends on the colour.
Doesn’t always work of course - have had some shockers as well - but if there’s a decent discount (say less than a 1/3 of the price of a bottle in prime condition) and the colour’s good, I’d say it’s worth it (the Monforrtino, at £50 a few years ago, was a ridiculous bargain).
As to whether wines that seep ‘recover’ I can only say that I don’t really know - I guess it depends on the wine. I suspect some of them do come back round again while others won’t.
Thanks to all of you who are weighing in. To be clear: I would not worry about holding on for any recovery – rather, I am querying whether one can expect the heat-affected wine to hold steady from here, even if undamaged despite the seepage, or if the seepage itself indicates an unsustainable environment for the wine, one that behooves the owner to cut his losses and pop some corks in order to avoid further deterioration of that wine.
Jonathan
+1 . This is the only exception to the ‘no signs of past seepage’ rule for me on buying older bottles. Fill level would still need to be decent, i.e. some seepage, not lots.
The question is whether the cork seal is intact after a heat-related episode of seepage, or if it is compromised. If intact, there is no added risk of continued long storage (assuming no more heat spikes). If compromised, excess oxygen exposure will lead to an early demise.
I’m not aware of any reliable way to tell by inspection if the seal has reformed. It could vary from bottle to bottle. I would store the bottles on their sides as an ongoing stress test, checking weekly for signs of additional seepage. I’d stand them up every 4 months looking for signs of increasing ullage. If I saw either, I’d plan on opening the bottle within the next few months.
I think it depends. I recently found a JJ Prum 2001 spatlese in my cellar that had a gooey capsule, and found signs of seepage, but when I opened it the color was youthful and the bottle was stellar. I think I would worry more about low-fill (as in below shoulder) than seepage, since seepage can be caused by overfilling or other matters. Generally though, if I was buying, I would probably avoid.