I dont get it, but I guess they’re still selling bottles, so what do I know
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unless you know something i dont, i wouldnt necessarily assume that is the case 
apparently Pontet ended up selling about 70% of what they wanted to sell - they’re closing order books today - saved by the WK score I suspect. Batailley will have sold reasonably well, I’d wager, too.
Cheval Blanc on Monday will be the first proper acid test of a wine that will sell well if the price is good, and mediocrely if not
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Cheval Blanc has deep pockets so I suspect they will be relatively ambitious with the pricing. If they don’t sell well they have mama LVMH to sustain them for quite some time. I would expect more reasonable pricing from privately owned wineries.
Thoughts from at least one person ITB is expecting this to be priced attractively fwiw
I was thinking about the similarities to the crash of 1973. War in the Middle East, high oil prices, and low consumer confidence.
There are some differences though. First of all, in 1973, Bordeaux had a minor scandal over mislabeled wines. Secondly, instead of a run of poor vintages, which were basically unsellable, Bordeaux has had a run of very good vintages, which because of the sheer volume, are also proving difficult to sell.
As other pointed out, there really is little incentive to buy own primeur, when the likelihood is that you can buy for less 10 years down the line. Higher interest rates will also have ramifications. It is fine to finance wine when your opportunity cost is around 3%. A lot more difficult to justify when it is costing you around 7%.
Finally, I mentioned before, the relationship between the negociants and the Chateaux has been pretty one-sided. In a troubled market, I think we’ll have to see some major adjustments soon.
It is not a vintage that I think I would be buying as a future. Even if prices do go down markedly, I cannot see any real advantage to buying early.
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Just read this article @Mark_Golodetz posted near the top of the thread. I couldn’t agree more with this conclusion:
There is a tipping point where consumers will take the bait, a release price where buyers would not dribble back, but flood back, even in this economic climate. That equilibrium is seen as totally unacceptable for reasons explained earlier, but essentially it boils down to a loss of face. It would be construed as an admission of failure. The complete antithesis of what all these châteaux’s much-touted investments were designed to achieve. I would counter-argue that price reductions of this scale would be seen as a gesture of goodwill, something Bordeaux needs in order to rebuild its reputation and its bond with wine lovers. It could be a catalyst for restored loyalty. In the long term, Bordeaux might see its wines return to restaurants and dining tables. It might be the spark that reaps long-term rewards. Down the line, proprietors will look back and say it was a tough decision…but it worked.
I’ve argued the same thing for Napa. Sure, there is an element of “high price = perceived prestige,” but there is a larger and growing element of customers wanting good value in their purchases and to feel good about what they paid when they try the wine in the glass.
If you have customers who like drinking your wine (as opposed to mostly wanting it to show off how expensive and elite their purchases are), adjusting price downward to reflect demand and market conditions should be accepted as a good thing.
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Yes, absolutely. I’d love to be a fly on the wall listening to phone calls between négociants and châteaux. I can’t believe the former are happy with the “business as usual” - or rather “no business as usual” prices seen so far. Can the négociants really keep on bankrolling the châteaux?!
I don’t doubt the vintage will sell - it sounds absolutely wonderful: ripe but fresh. But not right now.
Another cloth-eared price: Pape-Clément, at 73€.
I thought it looked pretty good at first (I’m not at all a fan but it’s the same price more or less as the 2014 EP).
Then I checked the auction prices - you can get the similarly rated 2019 and 2020 for 60 to 65€.
Duh!
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Those of us with full cellars know we do not have to overspend to add more wine.
This really truly is the largest obstacle that wineries will grapple with, more Napa than Bordeaux but holds true for both regions. Why buy a new release when we can buy wine that is aged and closer or ready to drink at much better pricing?
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What do we think about 6L 2025 PC for $800? https://www.zachys.com/pontet-canet-2025-6l-586455.html
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The issue with this is that many of the wines cant be drunk until 5-10+ years past vintage, which… is not how 95% of restaurants operate.
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I do not agree. Today, the vast majority of Bordeaux drink well quite early in life. No, that does not mean they will not improve, but it does say that the tannins are soft enough, and the fruits are ripe, which makes them quite enjoyable to drink on the young side.
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This hits on another important point: cellar stasis.
The OG Buyers have largely achieved cellar stasis, which means a wine needs to bring something extra to the table to justify a purchase for these people (that extra something could be quality, price, rarity, or whatever). With ever-rising prices, changing cultural norms, and the general state of the market(s) these days, New Buyers are not being adequately incentivized to purchase at all, let alone En Primeur. And this is how we get to where we’re at.
As you lose old customers you had better be acquiring new ones, or at least be squeezing more money from the ones you’ve retained and not yet lost. It would appear Bdx. is trying the Squeeze More method, as opposed to the Attract New method. But the Squeeze More method works only in the absence of cellar stasis.
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This is very true if you compare nowadays with, let’s say, the 80’s or even the 90’s. The wines are less closed and more approachable, fruits are more on the first stage, tannins are just softer.
Nevertheless, every Bordeaux fans who pay for the bottles still experience the same curve: wines shot down after 2 years and so for 10 or 12 extra years. The 19’s and 20’s are not singing right now.
They are not as unapprochable as they were, but you know you’d better wait for them. Who is opening his case (and bottes) of Canon 2020 now? Did the habits of the GCC Bordeaux drinkers really changed the last years because the fruit is riper?
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For me, “Yes and No.”
Yes, because now I will drink a bottle or two early, whereas I generally did not do that before.
No, because I agree with you — they still benefit from a good long sleep in the cellar (at least, that’s what I’m banking on, as the jury is technically still out!)
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I don’t know what their actual intent and strategy are. But there is a lot of easy to find and high quality Bordeaux out there, which is at very attractive pricing and is, as @Jeff_Leve notes, very capable of being enjoyed young (if not at its peak young).
I’m not exactly sure what all causes the gap between younger buyers and the product. Some guesses: (1) good ones are not in grocery stores, (2) French labeling is not understandable to civilians (e.g. they have no idea what a St. Emilion or 5th Growth or Pauillac is), (3) lack of successful marketing to younger buyers, (4) perception of it being an old man’s drink, and (5) restaurants not doing a good job of selection and promotion of Bordeaux on wine lists and BTG.
Oddly, I don’t think pricing is really the main barrier per se. There is tons of good Bordeaux for $15-30. I get that younger/newer buyers aren’t buying the trophy wines, but I don’t think there is any region in the world that has better availability and value at lower price points than Bordeaux. Which isn’t to say that still lower pricing wouldn’t attract more buyers.
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But by that, do you mean the good $15-40 type bottles? I don’t think those are generally shutting down or needing a decade.
If you mean 2022 Leoville las Cases or something, then sure.
All good points. But why is 2025 EP pricing what it is? Makes no sense. It feels like they’re trying to Squeeze More — efforts which betray their phenomenal failure to Read the Room.
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Many people spend a lot of money for prestige, like a First or Second Growth Bordeaux. A lot of younger people believe that the juice is not worth the squeeze. They find more obscure wines from less exalted regions to be as enjoyable, maybe even more so.
And how can you fault them?
The cost of living and buying a house is so much greater for younger people. They can’t afford to drop $100 plus for an expensive Bordeaux (or Barolo or Burgundy).
And really, wine is a fetishized commodity. You don’t necessarily always get what you pay for. Wine ratings seem like they are “fixed.” Wine mags give high scores to the most expensive wines from a region and then go down by price. This is why the $50 Zinfandel is always rated higher than a $50 Burgundy or Bordeaux. Look it up on Vinous and you will see.
Do young people really want to pay $100 for a 2025 Bordeaux that they will receive in 3 years and then will have to wait to drink?
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Of course you wouldn’t fault anyone for buying what she wants. But I think your post is proceeding along a widespread but incorrect assumption. Bordeaux offers better value at low price points than anywhere else these days (assuming you like Bordeaux — obviously if you don’t like a wine then the value is poor at any price).
As far as EP, yeah, that hasn’t made sense for hardly anyone for a long time. I’m amazed each year that it still exists.
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