Bordeaux comes from USA back home

WINE TALK
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h3h38wXXA7_YuuWAA5N3CxC3gkPw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

… and then on to Asia?

Best regards,
Alex R.

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Alex,
Drink up! [berserker.gif]

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Jim,

I’d be inerested to know why you tried to censor this thread.

Care to share?

Best regards,
Alex R.

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I thought the market, supply and demand, determined the price of bordeaux…I heard that from the Oracle of LA… to think that the bordelais would reduce supply to prop up the price seems to suggest that the market theory works when demand is strong and prices are rising… hmm…

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+1 absolutely correct

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Hi guys,

I’m having trouble understanding why this shifting of wine from one place to another should be seen as contrary to market principles…

Demand for Bordeaux is global.

Sales are sluggish in the US, they move the wine.

Simple as that.
Good ole capitalism.

All the best,
Alex R.

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Alex, since the Oracle of LA as Scott calls him only comes on this Board to defend his asinine statements, it is great to have you here as a honorable everyday shill for the Bordeaux trade. Keep up your fine work on behalf of the souless producers from the Gironde. [worship.gif] [popcorn.gif]

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Alex, I submit that you do not understand the meaning of censorship. Censorship - Wikipedia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In terms of this thread, my comment is that you’re trolling. Troll (slang) - Wikipedia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Alex

I don’t have an issue with it at all… that said, if it were just a matter of moving supply to where demand is stronger, why didn’t Diaego do that themselves? There is more to it that just that… to my comment, I was addressing an old discussion that seemed to suggest that the Bordelais do not attempt to manipulate prices, which they clearly do, and I am ok with it…I am just not ok with someone calling that pricing strategy… “supply and demand, to wit, Market, determined:”

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Interesting that Simard and Greysac are on the list, buying back stocks.

Greysac sells here for like $10, I wonder why they bothered?

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Isn’t it obvious… Big demand in Asia for those! [rofl.gif]

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Serge,

You make a good point about provenance. I don’t know if the wine suffers or not.

Jack,

Soulless producers in Bordeaux? I sure wish you knew some of them, I think you’d enjoy their company and their passion for fine wine.

Jim,

I agree. Censorship as such was the wrong word on my part and I apologize. But, honestly, troll was not the right one on yours.

Scott,

Good point you made about why Diageo didn’t re-export the wine themselves. They are, after all, the world’s largest beer, wine, and spirits group.
As for “manipulation” and simply following market forces, this seems mostly a semantic difference to me, on a par with “investing” in wine and “speculating” in wine.

All the best,
Alex R.

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Alex, I know and admire many winemakers and Chateau owners in Bordeaux. Sadly, the pricing policy of that region in the past decade has caused the top Chateau to lose its collective soul in the name of profit. The fact thet these wineries would buy back stock to attempt to maintain their ability to price at unsustainable levels merely re-inforces that perception. Enjoy the 07 vintage as it gathers dust for eternity.

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Alex

I will take the bait…YOU CANNOT BE THIS DUMB!

C&E (Diageo) was plummetting prices to create cash. Some Chateaus preferred to buy the stock back for pennies on the dollar.

Makes sense to me.

The real issue is provenance. Merchants in Europe have refused to buy stocks of BDX with United States Import (Strip) labels for decades. IS Mouiex just peeling off those strip labels for Petrus?

In addition, would someone like Robert Parker, who is only concerned about great provenance, as he overnights wines from all over the globe to his cellar in Maryland, want to touch this stuff. Surely, it must have been mishandled. [smileyvault-ban.gif]

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Scott,

Couple of things here.

With, conservatively speaking, 5,000 châteaux in Bordeaux the comment about pricing policy hurts because it concerns only a very few estates. Many people out there are making good wine and selling it for a pittance, and can barely make ends meet.
Selling their soul? I think not.

As for the flashy wines, they charge what the market will bear. Have the other name wines that charge high prices elsewhere sold their soul too?
Should one equate high prices with soullessness?

I have trouble understanding your comment:
“The fact thet these wineries would buy back stock to attempt to maintain their ability to price at unsustainable levels merely re-inforces that perception”.
In fact, the prices are only unsustainable on the American market. They are not unsustainable elsewhere!
Furthermore, when America gets back on its feet, a good vintage comes along, and the successor(s) to Chateau and Estate get sorted out, it’ll be back to business as usual for the great growths.
Indeed, it’ll be fascinating to see what interest there is in the States for 2009 classified châteaux. I wouldn’t exlude strong demand from the US despite a lot of things!

You end you post with: “Enjoy the 07 vintage as it gathers dust for eternity”.
The wine will be dumped on many markets but, hey, people make oodles of money reselling in the good years, maybe losing a little from time to time in years dissed by journalists is only fair.
The wine won’t gather dust: it’ll be sold at a price the market will bear.
Last, but not least, the wines are hardly of poor quality.

All the best,
Alex R.

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Hi Daniel,

Who’s dumb is a matter of opinion.

Nothing whatsoever prevents wines coming back to Europe from the US being sold because of strip labels!

I have bought such wines in French supermarkets. Indeed, I have bought wines with Russian strip labels for goodness sakes!

As for provenance, as I said above to Serge, this is indeed a legitimate concern. I think, however, that it should be seen in a wider context. In other words, how many consumers consider this a serious issue, what do importers say they do - and actually do - to store wine in good conditions, etc.

All the best,
Alex R.

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Scott?

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Not to mention the strict re-labeling requirements that affect the value of the wine resent from US to Europe.

Alex, I respect you and your opinion but you will rue these quotes one day soon. 09 Bordeaux greatness aside, maybe you and Mr. Leve should drink together out of Rose colored crystal. [whistle.gif]


Scott I am certain that it ruins your day but he was referring to me.

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Alex, my reference to trolling is that the article mentions nothing about Bordeaux buying back these wines to sell to Asia. That was a statement that you appended to your post with the intent to provoke a reaction.