They could have the barrel tastings without offering the wines for sale (so EP tastings vs. EP releases/sales). The obvious objection is that only reason to have the tastings is to gin up excitement to sell products, so there is no incentive to split the marketing from the sales. But then we just return to the beginning point of this debate, which is that the Bordelais could do the marketing events two years later when the wines are in bottle and are available for delivery.
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you could do the whole current EP fair, and then hold off on the actual sales timeline until theyâre bottled.
realistically they could at least wait until UGC to sell the wine, but they wont even do that, things like 21 would be even more so a disaster
EP pre-Parker was certainly different. It was basically a crap-shoot: people bought wines on the basis of their reputation, no more than that. The standard saving on the release price was 25%. This gave the chĂąteaux some cashflow and in return, a decent price. In many cases, it was a good deal for all - when did LĂ©oville-Barton ever make a really bad wine? But in other cases, there was still a risk of buying a bad wine. In the early Parker years, the risk still existed (eg Ducru).
I think one of the problems with EP today is that people want to have their cake and eat it: they see scores as some sort of quality guarantee (which they arenât), and want the same returns as in the olden days.
But ultimately, the market decides, as you have often said, but of course that works in both ways. EP will probably always exist as the marketing jamboree it has become, but I would expect budget drops and something a little more modest in the future. I canât see any rational reason for EP sales to rocket again, barring a run of bad vintages followed by exceptionally low prices for the next good vintage, so maybe, after nĂ©gociant pressure, EP releases will be restricted to a much smaller number of wines, and if after a few years sales remain moribund, perhaps as Henry says, they might just postpone releases until after bottling.
Perhaps the solution is that if you donât like EP, donât buy EP?
Sure, EP probably isnât a great bargain for consumers anymore. But no one is forcing anyone to buy EP, so why should the Bordelais stop doing EP altogether (especially if some consumers want to buy EP)?
If consumers en masse stop buying EP, the problem will take care of itself. But we arenât there yet.
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We arenât that far off either.
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Count me as someone who has been buying EP for most of the last 8-10 years. Why? Because it is fun; because I know I can get what I want from many merchants at a time when there is a lot of information available at the vintage (so I donât forget); and I like the idea of storing the wine myself for however long I hold it. And, I hope I am getting a good deal.
But, I am not so sure I will buy EP anymore. The financials are pretty staggering of what a poor deal it is for the consumer.
At the moment, it seems to me the sweet spot for buying would be at about the 10 year mark. Most wines are near EP price, 10 year bottle scores are coming out, and most of the 2-5th growths are widely available, and still have many years left of evolution in my cellar.
(Now, will I stick to that resolve come next May/June, or will I get caught up in the hype again? We shall seeâŠ)
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pretty much the same bucket as me, tbh.
That size of return seems like 82 on. Prior to Parker, returns were there, but they were modest, as demand was moderate. There was no rush to buy wines, so there was a slight, but reasonable return.
Some big British merchants didnât even release the wines for a few years. I think it was Berry Brothers. That slowness led to the creation of Farr and other big British merchants.
The rest of what you said is certainly true.
I respectively disagree. Buying physical wine means you can enjoy it right away if you wish. The only reasons anyone buys En Primeur is to secure an allocation of something that will be very difficult to acquire when physical (not a Bordeaux problem) or they think the price will go up when physical. There is no reason to buy any future product other than hedging or speculation. it is the premise of the entire concept of a future.
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I think this is a matter of opinion.
I think the folks that buy Bordeaux EP are largely buying because itâs the easiest time to buy. The wines are available over a much shorter window, and you can order in various formats too. Waiting for the wines to arrive and trying to get what you want can be far more time consuming and you often have to buy from numerous vendors. Think about the amount of money some of the people make when you break it down to a per hour basis. Spending an hour on the phone with your wine guy planning out a list of what you want is easier than spending countless hours chasing wines all in the interest of keeping the money in your bank account vs. buying up front.
I think the other variable to consider is that very, very rarely do the prices go down on Bordeaux.
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Yeah this is basically it. I buy (though not a lot) mostly as a matter of convenience. I get wines offered at competitive prices, all in one place, with perfect provenance. Then I basically forget about the futures until they show up. I have plenty of wine to drink in the meantime.
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I attended the 2023 UGC tasting in Miami last night. Given the scale of the tasting and the youth of the wines, I chose not to take detailed notes and instead focused on forming an impression of the vintage as a whole. Overall, the 2023 vintage presents as very elegant and restrained soft and composed rather than overt or showy. To me, it clearly reflects a classic Bordeaux profile. I found the 22s at last years UGC to be more immediately accessible at this stage, with the 23s feeling a bit more reserved.
I really enjoyed tasting through the lineup and was happy to have bought heavily during EP. Standouts for me were PLL, Canon, Smith Haut Lafitte, and LCHB.
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How was attendance compared to last year? Wasnât able to make it yesterday.
It was about the same as last year, I was expecting it to be busier considering the tickets were sold as BOGO. The lines were very minimal so it was pretty easy to taste all the wines quickly and could go back multiple times if you wanted more.
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Good to know, seems like a pretty good vintage I also went pretty deep on 23.
I went to it in Toronto on Friday and was quite thrilled with a number of wines I tasted, but also disappointed in others. LCHB, Canon, Beausejour Becot, Leoville Poyferre, Soutard and DDC Blanc were the highlights. Also, Suduiraut is absolutely sublime this vintage.
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This makes clear that it is very difficult to have a final opinion from tasting only at one occassion.
I tasted the same wines in Zurich from bottle (UGCB). And the wines that were standouts for you â PLL, LMHB and Canon â did disappoint me. Something that surprised me a lot because they are amongst the finest in almost every recent vintage. I was careful and mentioned that it is always difficult to come to a conclusion after tasting a wine only once.
The message: be sceptical when reading tasting notes. And I hope nobody find it arrogant when I say that I am an experienced taster.
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total wine concierge just posted their list of 2023s on their marketplace from UGC. Loading...
donât know if theyâre marking up from EP pricing but it didnât seem like there was anything listed that was a particularly good deal. Dauzac at 65 a bottle, Giscours 75, LCMB at 150, Baron at 185, PLL at 195, to just name some, and then some seemingly high ones. Marquis du Terme and Lynch Moussas at 55 and Kirwan at 56?
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Carmes was 128, PLL 174
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