This would be illegal. I’m sure it’s been done before but that doesn’t make it anymore legal. Besides that, most shops are unlikely to buy from someone they don’t know and thus how the wines were stored. They also may not be interested in everything in the collection.
Just chiming in with my positive experience with winebid. Could not have been easier. The vast majority of bottles sold very quickly for appraised value, the others followed fairly quickly. Very professional operation
Legal in many places, illegal in others. IIRC licensees in CA can buy wines from private parties as long as the wine is more than 5 years from vintage, but I could be wrong.
NY seems to allow some version of this as I get many offers from retailers that have acquired private cellars. Not sure if there’s a vintage rule.
I don’t recall seeing it in NJ though
Any rough guideline on what % Winebid and or Benchmark take as compensation for selling and all associated work?
Yes, I meant to say depending on the jurisdiction.
IIRC, at least 20% off market value. Also, Benchmark sent boxes for you to wrap up the wines and ship them yourself whereas Winebid came to pick them up.
Here’s winebid’s commission rates as a function of appraised value (the extra 1% is for insurance):
There’s also a minimum commission of $8 per lot.
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these commissions are for sellers in addition to the buyers commissions? That means adding them up you might be getting just 68% of market value for a medium sized lot.
Buyer’s commission does not affect the seller’s net. They are separate sources of revenue for the middleman
Buyers commission directly reduces the price the buyer is willing to bid for the wine (dollar for dollar if the buyer is rational) and therefore comes right off what the seller receives
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There is some validity in that in setting an upper limit for a bid. But unlikely it equates dollar for dollar, especially at the lower end of the spectrum
Understood but it’s hard to believe that any sophisticated buyer is not going to take buyer’s commission into account when determine how much to bid for a given bottle, thereby reducing the Seller’s return.
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Outside of the legality questions, which have already been addressed, I wouldn’t assume you’d walk into an unfamiliar local. IMO - a strongly biased one - a relationship with a good local wine shop should be a given for most wine lovers and collectors.
That vig is very high. You can do way better at the big auction houses but you do need the top wines to get their attention.
Sorry, I was a bit of a zombie yesterday due to juggling too much.
I like your premise of keeping things local.
I’m also a big fan of making these types of things as easy as possible. Time is money. Each will have to make their own assessment but I am willing to sacrifice some profit to minimize hassle and time.
Since the person is in California where, from what I can tell, it is illegal for someone without an alcohol resale license to sell to a retailer (perhaps there is an wine age exception as Chuck indicated) it doesn’t appear it would be legal to do locally.
Winebid is fairly local (Napa) and they will collect the lot. As others have pointed out they make the process very easy and that has been my experience as well.
It is legal to sell my personal wine and whisky collection in my own liquor in California with a valid liquor license? - California Business Law Questions & Answers - Justia Ask a Lawyer.
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Before I bid on anything on WineBid, I multiply the existing price and my proposed bid by 1.26, which represents the buyers premium and my local sales tax. So absolutely buyers are factoring in premiums for their purchases.
I imagine it would be much harder to find individuals who don’t versus those who do….
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Just to add a bit of personal anecdote. Last year I was letting go of some 2013 Barbaresco. Still in original case boxes. Traditional, highly rated and all that blah blah. I paid ex cellar on release and since then retail prices rose considerably due to brand being hyped. I offered to a very good shop in a good market where brand is/was not distributed for prices that would have allowed him to make better than normal margin and still be retail lower than pretty much anywhere in the country vs current vintage. Buyer knew where I stored at proper temps. Buyer was “thinking about it” for too long so I sold on Winebid and netted the same amount I offered the store.
It’s often not so easy to sell to stores even if one is a frequent customer.
Such is the auction game.
Things sell above estimate too. The more interested buyers participating, the less buyers premium will have an impact. Goal is to win at lowest possible hammer. Each individual buyer sets their own ceiling but that is a moving target
I completely agree about local store vs national outlets. However, when comparing one national outlet vs another national outlet, I feel like there is a lot of focus on what the seller’s vig is without any consideration as to how much buyer’s vig plays into buyer’s return.