BerserkerDay VIII planning discussion (Jan 27, 2017)

[Andrew_Morris]

@Todd F r e n c h

@Michael Martin

I would love to see all of them at once.

Michael, I addressed this above:

@Todd F r e n c h

A potential solution is to launch everything at once. The obvious problem with that is that BerserkerDay is over in an hour, and all the fun is gone.

Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it’s over…

I don’t think it would be over. It would take longer than that. Some would wait for the discussion and see what other have to say. Some would strike while the iron is hot to make sure the offer does not run out. It would still go on… Have it start at 12N and all post at once.

On the other hand, it seems that the people who actually participate here and have an offer might be allocated some preference. Not just for me, but for the other wineries here. I think having actual producers here adds a lot to this site.

[Scott_Wi3gand]

This might sound naive but couldn’t you just have somebody bump the offers that get buried? Somebody could monitor the bottom of the board and bump the stale offers.

[Jason_T]

@John A Kramer

If I understand it correctly, the issue is new listings dropping off the main page too fast. If so, why not disable the feature where new posts bump the topic to the top of the forum? Each new listing would have a certain amount of time at the top of the forum, but would gradually sink down as new listings are added.

Regarding fairness for late-in-the-day listings, start the day off with those listings that were added late the previous year (assuming there are returning offers). E.g., start off with the last 10-20 from the previous year, and then randomize the rest. At least that way, if you get stuck at the end, you know you’d have a better spot the next year.

Last year was the first time I participated, and I thought it was fun to dig through the pages to find interesting offerings, but can certainly understand it being a problem.

I like this

[Erik_G]

A few of these problems might have easy technical fixes. Since the BD forum has its own set of rules anyway, why not just bump up the number of threads displayed per page to 200, so that an offer that scrolls past #50 won’t be pushed off the page. The main issue there would be the added load on the servers, but I’m assuming you’re on AWS or something, where you can pay them a bit more for extra bandwidth/server resources for a short period of time? I’d also advocate for changing how threads are ordered, so that “bumping” becomes a non-issue: once an offer is posted, its location in the list is fixed for the day, regardless of how many comments are posted on it. If you’re feeling aggressive, post the forum darlings first, so that anyone reading later in the day will have to scroll all the way down to find their known favorites. Combined with the larger number of threads per page, you might have to scroll down further to find something, but nothing will get lost by being pushed to page 2 and then never generating any discussion.

I’m a web developer by trade, so if this is something that I can help out with, drop me a line, Todd.

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

I will repeat what I have said before. I think it should be organized in the manner most convenient to The Todd, since it is out of the goodness of his heart (although there is some debate about whether he actually has one) that we have Berserkerday. Berserkers are an adaptable lot and we will survive whatever stupid ideas he comes up with.

That said, I like the Newbie idea. I tend to place a few orders for wines I have never tried, and I like to support the entrepreneurial spirit, even when that spirit is represented by people who want to throw away a fortune by starting a winery.

An interesting requirement that would take no additional Todd effort - how about if each winery offering wine was required to include a two paragraph description/history/whatever about the winery, the vineyards, the philosophy or whatever. Each winery has to do a one minute elevator speech to kick off its offer.

[political post removed]

[JulianD]

Put forum favorites last. People will always save for them anyway, so putting them last will fix the fatigue/overspending issue

Or, as stated above, have the board as a whole pinned (all threads stuck), so that replies will not push topics to the top (therefore the ‘favorites’ will not push others to the back)

[Corey_N]

@Todd F r e n c h

Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it’s over…

If there are truly 150 offers, then perhaps a possible solution is to revisit the idea of making BerserkerDay a multi-day event. I like the chaos to an extent, but more time = more opportunities to sort through offers.

[ToddFrench]

@Corey N.

@Todd F r e n c h

Can you imagine if 150 offers were posted all at once, three pages of 50 threads each, and then trying to wade through them to find out what you want? Then, one hour later, it’s over…

If there are truly 150 offers, then perhaps a possible solution is to revisit the idea of making BerserkerDay a multi-day event. I like the chaos to an extent, but more time = more opportunities to sort through offers.

I like some of the ideas presented here, and I’m looking into the possibilities of implementing them.

As for two days, it will lose nearly all of it’s madness, and my hope is to limit the offers to 150 (not that 150 is a ‘low’ number!) and with some modifications to the day, we can figure out how to do it in a more organized fashion, and thus we solve the issue entirely!

[Daniel_H]

Great ideas:
Similar offers grouped together, by subforum or by release time
New offers “pinned” to the top for a limited time
Release everything at once

Terrible ideas:
Offers disabled or deleted to make way for another wave of offers - unfair and disheartening for anyone not spending all day in front of the computer

Additional comment about releasing everything at once - how can having three pages of offers be simultaneously efficient (after one hour it is done) and overwhelming (too much to process)? I regularly review multiple pages on the site when I have been away from it for awhile, and would be doubly motivated on Berserker Day. If ignored offers are truly a concern, Todd could periodically cull out the least commented threads and pin them too the top for an hour. I would think that the retailers would greatly appreciate having their offer available the full day, rather than risk all their effort being missed because of a bad draw number. The Xmas morning comment is very appropriate - would Christmas be better if the gifts were slowly and randomly handed out throughout the day?

[ToddFrench]

Ok, I’m a bit surprised that so few liked the groups idea, but it did seem to meld into other ideas that include much of what we’ve done in the past with bulk uploads of offers.

I’ve been working all morning to figure out some logistics, but based on some of the info above, this is an alternative that I should be able to do:

Without modifying all the forum software (and applying the mod across ALL forums including Wine Talk) I can’t make just one forum set to keep new threads where they were originally launched - either, across the board (so to speak) the threads get bumped with every new post, or they stay planted where they are. So, I’ve figured out a way around it, and know how I can create the threads and keep them in their original launch positions, no matter how many posts and replies they have. Essentially, each topic becomes an ‘announcement’, so it’s pegged at the top, and doesn’t change when folks make comments in reply.

Categorical group launches didn’t seem to fly, but categories as a concept seems good, as many folks like the ability to sort through the many offers. Another option, then, is for me to put topic icons on the offers, with codes so that you can easily zero in on what you want, be that Pinot, Newbies, Bordeaux wines, Old World, etc.

Here are the topic icons, which will appear to the left of the topic/offer title:

(White wines)

(Rhone Varietals)

(Bordeaux Wines/Blends)

(Pinot)

(Everything Else)

(New Wineries)

(Food Products - maybe)

I could launch in groups of 5 or 10 to minimize the ‘I was put in the last time bracket, so I got no orders!’ issues, but still no GOOD solution to that issue. Launch times are drawn using a random number generator, and I’m not going to CHOOSE which are ‘forum darlings’ because those I don’t choose will be pissed at me, and I’m not about to play favorites. I don’t want ‘pay-to-play’ beyond BerserkerBusiness (which is stupid cheap - $125/year) and Subscribers with their Early Purchase options (some wineries sell out during Early Purchase Preview Day, so beware!) because then the smaller companies/wineries are at a huge disadvantage to those who could afford to throw $500 to be listed super early and get the freshest money. I might save food and other products for last, as it’s typically cheaper overall, and if you buy a ton of wine, it’s not as difficult to buy accessories FOR that wine, or food (which you need no matter what, anyway). That might minimize the issues with ‘we were last so we had no orders’.

Thoughts???

[ToddFrench]

@CJ Beazley

Just don’t do alpha because then Ryan Zepaltas gets hosed.

This might come down to “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” simply from a consumer pov I think everything works fine. As far as orders getting “avalanched”, seems to me people always find the ones they are truly interested in. And personally I always hold a little back in case a good offer comes late.
For the record; I really hope Arcadian has an offer this year. I think it was one of the most talked about last time.

Confirmed

[Nate_Simon]

In terms of the format, admittedly sounding a bit like the grumpy old man here, but why not stick with what has worked in the past, which most people seem to like?

[ToddFrench]

@Nate Simon

In terms of the format, admittedly sounding a bit like the grumpy old man here, but why not stick with what has worked in the past, which most people seem to like?

Because, again, it DOESN’T WORK ANYMORE. That’s the issue - it worked when it was of a certain size, it doesn’t anymore and therefore has to be amended

[BobMilton]

That’s starting to look pretty good to me. I particularly like a new category so I can find some new favorites. And the wine category would help strategize where the bucks will go (and go they will)

[Russ_Williams]

I like the idea of saving food and other products for last.

[Siun_O_Connell]

The first thing I’ve ever agreed with Russ on … food and other products last makes a ton of sense and means I can catch my breath and order those without feeling distracted by trying to pick out my wines!.

The latest notes from Todd make sense … and I can’t wait!

(Todd, if you need any help, holler)

[AndrewH]

@Todd F r e n c h

@Mark Y

I hate the groups idea with limited time
If I have a two hour block in the afternoon for example I’m basically unable to buy 2/3 groups And only the one group is possible. As I understand the groups disappear once their time is up? That seems silly. It is a work day still.

The idea is that groups will have a timeframe, i.e. 9:00 - 10:00 am, then it shuts down while the other groups, in their timeframes go, then at the end of each group’s time, everything will be opened up at once, thus keeping the randomness and excitement of multiple offers, along with the ability to see them ALL at the end (this is outlined in the first post)

Not a fan of this approach - all offers should be open until the seller hits their limit (if they have one).

There must be better ways around the problem of flooding out new offers, which I agree needs to be addressed. For example, I like this idea:

@Steve Gautier

Could you pin most recent offers to the top so they don’t get buried with discussion on older offers

Pin by group for an hour.

Or, create subforums for each of your buckets, and open up each subforum (perhaps pinning it to the top) at the designated hour. Then all the pinots go live at 11am - maybe there are 15 offers - and everyone can pile into that subforum and see everything on the first page. You should be able to control the order of subforums through the software. And if there are only 7-10 “groups” that should keep things in control. Meanwhile the subforums that have already been opened remain open but float down the list a bit.

[AndrewH]

@Todd F r e n c h

If anyone has a potential solution to the MAIN problem (too many offers, thus newbies get buried, forum favorites get much more discussion, and late-listed offers get little traction simply because they got a short straw in the random drawing) I’m all ears. My best case scenario is the categorization listed above, as I haven’t seen/heard/thought of a solution that captures the craziness of BerserkerDay but SOLVES the issues of buried or ‘I have no more money’ listings.

BTW, I do like the categorization approach, with randomization to avoid complaints. I also like having a dedicated bucket for “newbies”. Maybe what you could do is have a couple buckets for newbies - maybe have 8-12 overall groups going off every 30 minutes, and mix in two “newbie” groups - one in the morning/early aft and one a bit later. That would give each group of newbs a bit more feature time if you have more than, say, a handful…

You know this best, but I’m not sure the problem is “too many offers” - rather it’s “too many offers without organization”. I think you’ve come up with a good approach to organization, and maybe it’s worth trying an all comers approach for a year with organization by group and then see what happens and adjust for next year.

[Mike_Stoneking]

Pinning the offers will still result in newbies dropping off the first page and having no chance of being seen within a couple of hours. Perhaps a
“newbie” category that gets launched January 26 as whole to kick off the event, then add them to the random offering with all others. Or make it “newbie” Berserker Businesses’ (BB) on the 26th. Subscribers get the entire list on the morning of the 25th, “newbies” and/or new BB members get a special pre release on the night of the 26th. Everyone goes into the mix on GAME DAY!! Already have my vacation day scheduled.

[mseeber]

@J a y H a c k

An interesting requirement that would take no additional Todd effort - how about if each winery offering wine was required to include a two paragraph description/history/whatever about the winery, the vineyards, the philosophy or whatever. Each winery has to do a one minute elevator speech to kick off its offer.

I second Jay’s idea, but instead why not have all offerers publish their “story” a few days (or more) prior to BD? The specific offer would still remain hidden until the actual day, but it would give folks a chance to survey the potential landscape of offers, both favorites and newbies.

This is basically what I do by looking back at last year’s event and making a long list of those I would be interested in if there was an offer.

Perhaps this could apply only to newbies to ensure they don’t get lost in the pile.