Ive now bought the last three releases from both places and I am very excited about both, however I do have a question.
I am not attaching any importance to this number in terms of one or the other being better but I have noticed that Bedrock seems to run in the mid 14% ABV yet Carlisle runs in the mid 15% ABV, these are averaged across different bottles and obviously there are outliers on both sides
So as these two appear to share a lot of common philosophies, varietals and vineyards why is there are consistant difference, what in the winemaking or approach causes the different ABV’s
That is the likely answer. Other possible explanations: Bedrock uses more non-zin varietals that ripen at lower brix; perhaps Morgan waters back more; or perhaps Morgan rounds his ABV down - the listed alcohol level can be off by as much as 1% for wines with more than 14% alcohol.
Similar philosophies, yes, but different winemakers. You also have to consider if they’re pulling from different blocks in the same vineyard, they aren’t necessarily getting the same varietal makeup, for example I think Bedrock’s block at Papera has a much higher % of Carignane than Carlisle’s block.
I’ve not noticed a difference if you only look at Zinfandel bottles. Can’t compare mix blacks etc to zinfandel.
I would say that the wines are different, but I’ve never done a serious side by side comparison. I generally prefer Carlisle but I also know them better since I’ve been drinking them for 10 years. Bedrock I’m still trying to fully understand.
The wines, to me, are quite different. I’d guess Bedrock picks earlier, but there are probably other winemaking differences as well.
It would actually be a fun tasting, do some blind flights of Bedrock and Carlisle from same vintage and vineyard. I don’t think it would be hard to tell which was which, but it would be interesting to experience the differences in that kind of tasting anyway.
Maybe we should put one together? Many of us are (over)loaded with Bedrock and Carlisle wines, so it wouldn’t be hard.
We did 2010 Bedrock Vineyard, Bedrock vs. Carlisle vs. Ravenswood last summer, non-blind. The Bedrock and Carlisle were fairly similar, but the Carlisle showed slightly darker fruit/spice profile while the Bedrock was more red fruit and citrusy/acid driven structure. The Ravenswood couldn’t have been more different, heavily tannic and structured, it did speak to Ravenswood’s style.
In my experience, for the single-vineyard wines, yes, although it is of course vineyard and vintage dependent. The Big River I drink early. The Old Hill, Teldeschi, and Monte Rosso (when it was made) can age out decades. It’s pretty easy to find aged examples for pretty cheap.
I don’t think I’m out on a limb saying Mike prefers to pick later and that this is bulk of it.
It’ll be interesting to try the respective montafi’s side by side. That was all picked on Mike’s timetable I believe.
That was my impression as well, but based on a recent conversation with Mike, it’s not actually the case. With respect to the 2010 Bedrock Vineyard mentioned above, the Carlisle was the earliest picked.
I tend to doubt Morgan and Mike want to go into that kind of detail, but it would be interesting to learn what things are similar and different in how they make these wines. Stems, maceration, oak, harvest time, cepage, etc.
Not because I’m fishing to find anything to criticize in either operation, or to declare one better than the other, but it would be fascinating to learn from the differences in the wines and see how those differences might reflect the different techniques. Especially because the differences are probably fairly subtle and nuanced – this isn’t like Loring and Arcadian picking from the same vineyard with polar opposite styles.