My main problem with german TBA/BA is the price. It’s the main/only reason I haven’t tried the top sweet rieslings, and the stuff that I can afford (~$100/half) is very good but not at the level of top sauternes in complexity. Also, I’ve so rarely had german riesling with age, and I find that the mid-tier stuff doesn’t morph with age but just loses a bit of the youthful vibrant fruit, whereas sauternes have more of a metamorphosis.
I will grant that some/many sauternes are a bit high in alcohol. I would probably prefer if that was more in check, though the best ones rarely have that problem. Similar with acidity… certainly some sauternes are lower in acid, but I would never say that about a wine like '01 Suduiraut, which is near perfection for $60-70 per half bottle. That wouldn’t get me very far with German TBA/BA, or even GKA.
My challenge with Sauternes is that I rarely crave a second glass. I typically find it amazing at first sip but that excitement slowly vanished and I’m struggling by the last sip.
By contrast, Riesling BA/TBA I can drink easily by the bottle. Same for Tokaj 5/6 Putonyos. I guess I need that acidity to keep things exciting.
In terms of availability, I understand we have a privileged position here in Europe, particularly for the less known names. That keeps costs down for TBA, as exemplified by the excellent TBA by Würzberg, which was a steal at €97 hammer price at the Bernkasteler Ring auction.
Pardon my ignorance, but is BA - Beerenauslese and TBA - Trackenbeerenauslese? If so, I have been able to find some pretty affordable (for sweet wines) from JJBuckley. The Trockenbeerenauslese I have bought were 2017s, but sub $70 for 375ml. When it comes to buying Riesling i have only slightly more than no idea what I am doing, but so far I have enjoyed what I tried and I have a handful of bottles that I am excited to try still.
It is interesting that you say that, because I love sauternes but over time I am finding that I would like a bit more acidity in many of the wines.
2 Italian wines seem to solve the issue for me though. If you have not had them, I highly recommend.
Donnafugata Passito di Pantelleria Ben Rye is the #1 for me and usually shows lots of apricot on the palate.
And just recently I tried this next one. In fact it is still open for about a week now and doing well. It is a 2009
Marchesi Antinori Muffato della Sala
Both are sub $60 for 375 or 500ml in the case of the Muffato
Can’t believe no one has mention dessert wines from the Loire. I have a lot of stickies in my cellar - mostly German but also Sauternes and Huet 1ere tries and Quarts de Chaumes. Due to the acid levels in them, I prefer riesling and chenin sweeties to Sauternes and My stash of the latter is mostly Climens. Try a Huet 1ere Trie with a peach or nectarine!
If you want to try a great German stickie that isn’t too dear, try Muller Catoir’s auslesen, either riesling or rieslaner.
[quote=“A.Gillette, post:5, topic:288817”]
I agree with j_rock. Sauternes for me lack the acidity and accompanying tension of sweet German Riesling, and therefore don’t have the balance. They come off as flabby to me even when I enjoy them.
[/quote]I’m in complete agreement. I also get a bitter apricot pit finish on almost every Sauternes, very off-putting for me.
personally, everyone is talking about BA and TBA but for me the thing I like about German sweet wines is that Auslese is typically the highest level of sweetness I ever want in a wine. and a good goldkap is much easier to find and can be pretty affordable, and has the sweetness level and acid balance I’d rather have in a wine vs a true sticky. thats why I lean on the German ones over Sauternes mostly I’d say
I had a 1998 Z-H Clos Jebsal SGN in 2006 that I can still taste. I think Bill Lawrence brought it to a dinner with a bunch of EBob people in the good old days at BLT in the east 20s in Manhattan. I drank it at the end of the dinner and took my last swallow, rushed out to catch a cab, went to Grand Central, and took a train to White Plains. Let’s say total travel time at least 60 minutes since last sip. When I got to White Plains, I realized that I could still taste the wine, and not because it was in my moustache. Longest finish ever.
For me, the great BAs/TBAs/Eisweins are a lot like the great Montrachets in that personality plays a huge role. You are going to get a remarkable experience, but whether it is compelling enough to make you want to spend the money is going to depend a lot on what you are looking for and how that matches up to the character of the individual wines.
Also I would say a great German dessert wine cannot be matched anywhere else in the world. Not even by Essencia itself, and certainly not by Yquem. I do love Yquem- but even in old age it never has anywhere near the complexity of a great dessert Riesling from the Mosel.
I like my TBAs to have a light palate feel but also a lot of zest to them- showing layers of prickly minerality, spice, herbs and such intermingled with the rich honeyed fruit. And of course, lots of acid.
And for that, Fritz Haag and Maximin Grunhauser are my go-tos. Sadly there are very rare in the US, but if you are patient you can find good deals. The going rate for Haag right now in the US is about $500 a half bottle. I have not seen an MG at US retail in years, but would suspect it would be in the $600-700 range in the US per half bottle.
That said, in the past few years I have picked up several half bottles of each in various good vintages for $300 or less per half bottle. Just keep an eye out at auctions and with the major direct importers on both coasts. Occasionally a few will come up, and as the audience for them is so small, they will tend to sell for less than retail in a setting like an auction where there is a limited time frame to buy.
Another thing I like is Robert Weil’s Eiswein. The sorts of TBAs I describe above need a good bit of time to develop, but Eiswein in general is approachable much sooner- and with the Weil version you get a lot of fire and complexity to go with the sweetness that shows itself even in youth. And not as expensive as the top Mosel wines. The recently released Weil Eiswein 2016 set me back about $360 per half here in the US.
For $100 or less- I would go with Kurt Darting. They make really fun and enjoyable dessert wines- and not just from Riesling but also Scheurebe, Muskateller and other grapes. They are extremely inexpensive, user friendly and while they will all age and hold- sometimes they age and improve into something that can vie with the very best. A good example is the 1996 Dürkheimer Fronhof Scheurebe Trockenbeerenauslese. It is incredibly good, but something you will have to be patient in finding. I did find some more recently, and it was around $100, so it is still out there sometimes. Winebid is a good place to keep watch for it.
There are a lot of really good sweet wines made in a lot of places and a lot of mediocre sweet wines made in a lot of places.
Had a Reinhold Haart 2015 Weingut Reinhold Haart Piesporter Goldtröpfchen BA a couple of months ago that was spectacular. Also love sweet wines from Schloss Lieser (their 2010 GKA tasted like Eiswein), JJ Prum, von Schubert and others that are wonderful.
Then, try a sweet riesling from Trimbach or Zind Humbrecht from Alsace. Fabulous wines.
And, I love Yquem and Climens. Climens is about as good a value in sweeter wines as there is.
Also, don’t forget about sweet wines from the Loire made from Chenin Blanc. Every time I open one I don’t understand why I don’t drink more of these.
One thing I would note for those who are delving into German dessert wines for the first time. I wouldn’t categorize eiswein with TBA and BA. The lack of botrytis alone makes eiswein a very different thing (although I will note on the side that there are some interesting wines that are combinations of eiswein and botrytis wine, particularly from Zilliken), and in my experience, eiswein doesn’t really age. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t bottles that last a very long time. Prum in particular makes eisweins that can go on for a while. But they don’t get better - they are either amazing when they start out life or they aren’t, and that tends to be how they stay until they…completely fall off a cliff. And eiswein frequently falls off a cliff, sometimes after a very short period of time, and you end up with something undrinkable. It is the least enjoyable, and riskiest, category of German wine in my view.
Love Haart’s wines.