Barossa and McLaren - You suck [Hyperbole for you serious types]

WINE TALK
21

Well said.

22

I’m curious about whether its your tastes that have changed or if you think the wines of which you’re speaking have just fallen apart with age. I actually like the extracted and jammy Australian wines. If you like dry wines with pencil lead and dirt characteristics, I can see why you might shy away from most of the wines made by Chris Ringland or 90+% of what GP imported (when they were around).

I don’t fault the Australians for making this wine, because its what the American consumer wanted. I still think one of the best Australian wines I’ve ever had was the 1997 Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz, and that was Sparky Marquis at his finest. I wish I had more of these. Having said that, I bought a case of 2000 St. Henri Shiraz a few years back, and we’ve been drinking them lately. This wine is much more “Old World” style, and I would disagree with the poster who suggested they’re falling apart.

23

I tasted the wines, disliked them and did not buy. Therefore my hard earned dollars went into wines I would actually drink, Piedmont, Burgundy and Bordeaux. If your problem is that you are credulous, and bought into the crappy, sugary low acid messes that Parker liked without tasting them, then you have only yourself to blame. If you did taste them, and now found that you do not like them, you have even more problems, as your palate is unreliable. [stirthepothal.gif]

24

Sounds like what Rumpole is telling you is you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Or maybe he’s saying “FU” twice.

Someone needs to tell this guy to wise up: 2002 Shirvington Cabernet Sauvignon - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

25

Man, what’s the big deal? Barossa and McLaren, You do suck. You totally suck.

26



Ah well! What can one add to that magnificent piece of purple prose? The language of Shakespeare, Hardy and Mark Twain will never be the same again. We can only sit in amazement, our mouths gaping at the cleverness and insight of Mr. Mcbrearty.

It is true that free speech is allowed on this board, or at least subject to the moderator. And, as yet, they have not outlawed hyperbole, generalization or even gross stupidity, so it looks as if you guys can express whatever nonsense you want, free from censorship.

27

The language of Shakespeare, Hardy and Mark Twain will never be the same again?
Really, Man? :slight_smile:

28

I had the best of luck doing this. I made room for cases of German Riesling! I briefly got angry at the region, then the critic, then myself(see Berry Crawford’s 12 stages…) Now I am at peace, for I know that the wine makers, in most cases take these wines pretty seriously( sure, some may have gotten caught up in the points races, or gravitated towards the ‘demand/hype’), and those who drink and like them must be sincere for the most part in their enthusiasm. I do believe a lot of wines that are made in different style get grouped in with the particular style Rich is abhorring. I certainly am not a big fan of many of the, for lack of a better term, Aussie spoof. But there are some shining examples of Barossa and McLaren wines that are wonderful. Recently I was blown away by a Hutton Vale 1999 Barossa Eden Valley Shiraz. Never a thought of problem oak or heat, just gorgeous juice.

29

Please enlighten us, man…

30

ironically enough, before seeing this post, opened a 2001 Torbreck The Steading. Well balanced, nuanced and delicious! Cheers Mr. David Powell, you crafted a fabulous bottle of vino that hails form Barossa and doesn’t get lumped in with the wines mentioned above. This really is an exemplary blend, 60% Grenache, 20% Mataro & 20% Shiraz, that could breathe life into an otherwise (evidently) dead region. Cheers DP! pepsi

31

Hyperbole is intentional exaggeration, not always well-received but in this case I think probably meant in good humor, and not likely to hurt anybody.
So while the OP surely doesn’t need defending, I didn’t think he deserved the scolding. I hoped he might like some company.
I think much better to take the opportunity as some did, and as I believed Mr Graham hoped, to champion some noteworthy exceptions.
Maybe Rich just hasn’t had this discussion a hundred times yet. I get that the title was a little inflammatory – dare I say “inartful,” now that everyone else is? I get that it could’ve been hurtful to some early harvesting no american oak havin’ rebels in the Barossa. But on balance I’m sticking with “lighten up.”

32

Did you read the original post, or just the edited version…

33

fwiw, I read an edited version from the start, and admittedly don’t know at what point in the game it was edited. And I don’t necessarily know how it was edited, but it appeared to be added onto and not reworded.

34

Let’s just say the original post was somewhat offensive and uneducated, and leave it at that then…

35

That’s the final word from your lofty position atop the proverbial [soap.gif], Rich?

[cry.gif] [cry.gif]

Obviously you don’t like wines from the Barossa and McLaren Valley and that’s a valid position, I suppose, but what’s the purpose of your initial post? [scratch.gif]
Is it to sway the opinions of others? announce that you have an opinion on these wines? or…something else?

I’m quite happy with some of the wines I drink from both of those regions from producers like Two Hands, Torbreck and Ben Glaetzer. I guess I’m not alone since these wineries remain in business.
You and I don’t have to agree on the wines we choose to drink, but I would not go out and slam the wines you do drink. Your choice. It would be a particularly dull Wine World if everyone’s fancy was the same and only for a single wine.

Hank [cheers.gif]

36

I stand by my original post. 80+% of the wines I’ve had lately from these regions totally suck IMHO. That doesn’t mean they all suck. Bravo to the producers still showing some restraint, you are a tiny minority and you do indeed produce some quality wines here and there. On the other hand, for those producers picking at 27-28 brix and not fermenting their wines fully dry… [middle-finger.gif] You suck, you totally suck. deadhorse . And to you Dr. Jay Miller and to the maker of the infamous 99 point FU wine… [middle-finger.gif]

To all you people who don’t like honest opinions, however blunt they are… [cry.gif] maybe Putin has a job for you.

To those of you who want an honest opinion, drink these regions young for most producers. “Most” of the 1998 to 2002s(even some 2003 and 2004s) I’ve had lately have gotten worse from their younger days. Part of this is palate change, but much is not… [cheers.gif] . Low acid, non fully dry fermented, high alcohol, overripe wines from these regions don’t age well.

37

And what precisely has changed? The wines you described were undrinkable young and are undrinkable now.

38

I think many wines are overpriced! This happened in Australian wine too quickly! However, I have sat with D’Arry and Chester Osbourne drinking some of their wines that were 15-25 years old and originally sold for $7 a bottle. The old man was really surprised about the pricing of their wines over here, and that was years ago! However, their oldest wines that they shared were remarkable and elegant, delicate and shed many of the characteristics of which you complain. Most syrah lovers, true French syrah lovers, get passionate about their wines after they break that first ten years window! Myself, I truly enjoy older wines! Yes, we drank alot of young shiraz at the behest of critics… and there was something about those fruit bombs that was initially appealing… just like those people who were telling you to drink 3 year old Califormia cabs. But, I for one am not clear what these wines you are discussing will do at 15-25 years in the bottle. I think we just don’t know yet. Except … perhaps for the fact that Penfold’s Grange has an incredible quality for aging and has withstood the test of time… based on the really older bottles I have enjoyed! Every bottle ever opened during a “dumb phase” is unimpressive! But, I have found that old shiraz can be rewarding.

If you lack the patience, sell it all! I think that we are often a fickle lot! We are passionate when the critic stir us up, and then cranky when we taste a couple bottles we overpayed for when we think they may never get to where we expected they might! For me, I am content to wait and see. I know that D’Arenberg makes ageworthy bottles… because I have drunk some! And, John Duval certainly has worked with some ageworthy bottles. I look forward to tasting these bottles(at least the first ones I purchased) in another 5-10 years… and then we can discuss it further!!!

39

Matt,
I hope you’re right. I hope the style shift has not made many of the 1998 to 2005 vintage that I have different than the old days. And Grange certainly never shifted too much. I’m hoping my 1998 St. Henris are just in a dumb phase. I really enjoyed a Bin 389 recently.

40

Rich… it would be nice if we had a level of certainty about all of the wines we buy because we certainly aren’t simply drinking them up! I have a personal standard that I try to employ when occasionally tasting a wine I am watching for progress or evolution. It is a difficult sixth sense… is this a bottle of wine that is not ready yet… or gone by!?! I think that, hope that, these are distinctly different tastes we can perceive, albeit this sort of judgment can be clouded in the moment as we are all affected by instants of optimism or depression.

There are certain of these wines that I think we really have to remain open minded about. And, to some extent we are guided by our experience with other seemingly related wines (syrah… shiraz), but I think judging them the same way is potentially just wrong! I don’t think a shiraz needs to be syrah like to be a good wine, nor do I believe that we can judge how they age exactly by comparison. My sense is that the best of the Shiraz will take a very long time to evolve.

Every once in a while a simple error in storage gives us a glimpse of something hopeful. The earliest bottles of Marquis Philips shiraz, the first ones that were really fairly inexpensive (when I suspect they were trying to capture our initial attention), have always shown fairly well in blind tastings. And, I found a leaker in the cellar that had been subjected to significant oxidation… perhaps an 02 or some such bottle… and stripped of its excess fruit this wine was showing the character of a great old syrah! It might be that I caught that bottle at a rare instant… ethereal in the face of death… but it was an inspirational bottle of wine!

In this gamble we engage in… collecting fruit juice in search of inspiration… this raised my hopes for Australian wine!