There are tons of great discussions on Levi’s podcast, it’s a great resource.
I’ve listened to every single I’ll Drink To That (and several of my favourites more than once), but I admit to liking this thread as well.
I’m not an experienced Barbaresco or Barolo drinker so all information is useful to me.
About Giacosa: Are they negoce? Are some, but not all wines negoce? Were they negoce before?
About negociants; I’ve always considered them to be three types:
1: Those who buy finished wine and simply bottle and label it before selling it.
2: Those who buy wine that is in barrel (or tank), fully fermented or not, then age it to whatever style they prefer.
3: Those who buy grapes and do the rest themselves.
However, those who lease a vineyard might still loose control over it as the owner wished to end the lease at some point, and I suppose that would influence the end result, but then they normally don’t make that wine anymore so it wouldn’t matter when one looks at new bottles and tries to guess their quality, I suppose.
Also; how much does it matter anyway? Aren’t there quite a few excellent American wines where the vineyard is managed by someone completely different from the people who make and bottle the wine? As I understand California the model of actually owning and farming the vineyard they make wine from is rarer than he opposite, and it doesn’t seem to have influenced the reputation of the wines made there.
I opened a 2008 Socre normale last night - still plenty of lightly drying tannins. It sounds weird - but it tasted very Bordeaux like to me. I didn’t get nebbiolo typicity from it. Perhaps the rest of the bottle, after some air, will show more of that tonight.
It’s a heady wine though – 14% abv – and two glasses seemed to hit much harder than I would have thought. Maybe those numbers are understated.
No, they make all their own wine. But they haven’t always owned all the vineyards from which their fruit came. Giacosa and Gaja wines sell for prices well above any other Barbarescos.
The history is laid out in this Wikipedia article.
Hi Morten
Picking up on your last question, it can matter a lot, or not much at all.
Terre del Barolo make some fairly average Barolo, though they are trying hard to improve. Produttori del Barbaresco make highly regarded Barbaresco. Both are co-operative owned wineries in adjacent regions, committed to making the wines from the vineyards of their members. Same model, different results.
We could no doubt pick out a number of grower+winery operations who can’t match what Produttori del Barbaresco put out, but also a number who make wines we like more.
Owning the vineyard doesn’t mean the wine will be better than a vineyard they merely manage, or where the grower is trusted to do the right thing. On the whole I’d have more confidence in the grower+winery model, but there are more than enough exceptions to avoid operating with a blinkered view.
regards
Ian
As an aside, a budget supermarket chain currently has a 2012 Barolo selling for £5 a bottle. I think a couple of the brave Wine Pages souls are planning to grab a bottle to try it. Me I’m too cautious, having had some poor cheap wines labelled as Barolo and Barbaresco, that I would think unworthy of Nebbiolo d’Alba / Langhe Nebbiolo. However even these typically retail at double that price.
So you all have pulled me back out of semi-retirement. Terre del Barolo makes OK wine. I almost purchased some, once. For that price it would be worth a go. But I just spent 4 days in the Langhe. And drove by the tasting room multiple times during the day. At no point did I consider pulling in and tasting. In this world, the one that we all live in, Giacosa is one of a small group of the greatest winemakers to have ever lived. If I could find them and afford them I would have ten times the amount that I currently own. The recent problems at Giacosa do not erase the past. That is an interesting list. If that is your star chart to guide you on your journey, I wish you luck.
Hi Gary
The £5 Barolo isn’t necessarily TdelB, indeed I’ve not heard if a producer is even listed & if they are genuine or a made up negociant label. I doubt it would be TdelB, perhaps more likely a wine that failed to make the cut for Barolo or Langhe Nebbiolo elsewhere, so sold in bulk to whoever would take a chance on it.
regards
Ian
There’s also the Terre da Vino coop, which includes producers from across the Langhe, including Barolo.