We drank Aux Reignots ’17 in magnum alongside the LSJ from Duroché. Both excellent wines, Duroché was more subtle and delicate. Aux Reignots was darker and perhaps less ready. In any case, both were truly expressive.
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Not having to buy new barrels every year should help bring down the costs by a decent bit.
I had a chance to taste the 2021 Echezeaux Les Rouges from A-L last summer. It was a nice wine, I like the stem influence and the balance was very good. Can’t agree with the pricing but the wine was nice.
Definitely going to let my 2020 Suchots nap for a minute. Do you have any stand out favorites of his other than the RSV, Suchots, and Reignots? Thanks for the informative background on all this.
Didn’t Arnaud Ente switch to vinifying in glass recently as well?
Yep. The globe
have you tasted these?
not yet.
I’ve only ever heard winemakers saying that fermentation in wood (foudre horizontal) is preferable. It’s quite a cost premium so they must believe it.
yeah, i was gonna say, these are just ceramic eggs right? idk, i guess its cool, and make a distinction in style, but to quote the initial post “The change in agronomic practices and the use of whole-cluster fermentation undoubtedly make them wines of great quality.” I’m not sure if you would make that specific designation on wines that follow similar agricultural practices, or the use of whole cluster. I’m not saying they aren’t wines of quality, but I would say it isn’t because of whole cluster. I’m fine with biodynamic conversion if the person wants to, but plenty of places are biodynamic that people in this thread wouldn’t touch. Same with Amphorae. I do find fermentations with clay to be a little different in acid profile. Maybe a value is thermal mass, does Arnoux Lachaux favor a long vs short malo?
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Arent the eggs typically concrete? I imagined hes using concrete barrels. Have you heard differently?
Edit: I meant to say I thought he was using ceramic barrels, not eggs.
I think its ceramic, I don’t really know what a ceramic veseel differentiates from an amphorae, maybe its the shape? I just know whatever @CFu puts on instagram, about wines i won’t drink. I dont really know the difference between eggs and barrels, they look like eggs to me i guess. not sure how much it matters, but i think the difference between ceramic and concrete would be the oxygen exchange in the vessel? idk i just drink the stuff (well not in this case)
They are ceramic.
From Jasper Morris:
“His choice instead is to switch to neutral ceramic containers …
They are made in Liguria, cooked at around 1280°C, though the aim is to get the right porosity, the equivalent of a three year old barrel (Charles cited 14mg/l), rather than to specify the temperature.”
And then of course there’s Charlie’s reply in post 32.
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On the whole-cluster point, I agree it’s a stylistic decision more than a qualitative one.
Whole cluster can absolutely bring lift, aromatic complexity, and structural tension but it can just as easily introduce greenness or angular tannin if the stems aren’t perfectly lignified or if extraction isn’t handled well. Plenty of great wines are destemmed. plenty of mediocre wines use whole cluster.
As for Arnoux-Lachaux specifically, my understanding is that the move has been toward more whole cluster inclusion and gentler extraction, aiming for perfume and verticality rather than power. I could be wrong but i don’t believe they’re intentionally pushing for unusually long malos. Burgundy in general tends to complete malo naturally in spring but the élevage choices (vessel, lees contact, sulfur timing) probably play a bigger role in the final feel than malo duration per se.
Sorry, I meant to say that I was under impression he’s using ceramic barrels, not eggs. Does anyone know if he’s fermenting in eggs?
There’s a lot of truth in the hyperbolic part. But also, a lot of very good winemakers prefer to leave no stone unturned when they hear of new options. There’s a fair bit of amphora being experimented with in the Willamette Valley as well. I have not been wowed by any amphora wines, nor have they been sb-par in any way either.
But they are a heck of a lot easier to maintain than wood when it’s empty between vintages and it doesn’t need to be updated frequently, so it’s far more cost effective than new wood. And regardless the price of the wines, many producers still like to save money and not worry about their vessels drying out and leaking next year or, worse yet, picking up some kind of microbial population in barrels that are empty (the pores are not empty. This is why amphora and ceramic are popular in the natural community-they can be sanitized without sulfur (especially if you have a kiln, you can just put them back in the kiln and heat sanitize them).
Kind of like how the “Roulot” method, aging in barrel for 11 months and then racking to stainless tank with lees for another 4-5 months, has become very popular in the Willamette Valley. The results are good, and you just so happen to only need one set of very expensive barrels for your wines instead of two by using this method. That win-win aspect makes it pretty easy to come up with some hyperbolic marketing…
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Fermentation is in stainless steel
The 2022 ech was incredible. Truly incredible.
I know this is marketing but access to these in the US are so limited due to the agreement with the domaine to selling mainly to restaurants so thought I’d offer it.
Crurated’s 2022 /2021 release pricing is near or less than US wholesale.
Happy to send anyone a link to 3 months of free membership to the discounted pricing that they gave me.
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just pmed, thanks!
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In general, whole cluster wines add tannin and minimize forward fruit in youth by binding up anthocyanins in the tannin chains. There’s an additional aromatic lift as you’re level of va in whole cluster ferments is going to be, hopefully, just under threshold (.7g/l va). Angular tannins are a worry, but longer maceration will definitely help to refine the tannin quality (while adding still more tannins). Green issues are moderated by having, let’s say reasonable rather than perfect, lignification of stems, which is usually not a real problem if your growing region is around the 45th parallel (seasonal shifts let the plants know that winter is coming even if temperatures are warmer) and if the winemaker avoids extractive techniques; higher ferment temperatures, high abvs, and most specifically enzymes adds. People yap on about ripe stems in the valley all the time and how they couldn’t use stems in x vintage but we’ve done 100% whole cluster wines in nearly every vintage since 2005. None are green.
That said, there are plenty of mediocre whole cluster wines. There are also almost no whole cluster wines that will win a blind tasting with destemmed fruit because the destemmed fruit shows more prominently in youth (less anthocyanins are bound up), and generally has less tannin. Whole cluster wines-in my opinion-generally elevate with significant aging and also often with significantly more time open and air required. Most often being best as you finish the bottle than as it is first poured, even with considerable time in bottle (1994 Brickhouse in 2022 took 2+ hours to really get going, but was absolutely worth it).
While I enjoyed the 2021 Arnoux-Laschaux wine, I don’t think it had time open to really show its full potential that day. But it was fun to try any way.
Thanks for starting this thread. It’s a good read.
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The truly impressive piece for me is not that the 2022 is incredible, but the fact he is choosing to aggressively experiment despite already sitting at the top of the pedestal. Taking risks when no one in the market asked him to.
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