Are we snobs?

[Jim_Stewart]

@GWang

I do think the thread has drifted significantly

@GWang

As a relative newcomer to the board

Good observation, you are learning quickly!

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

That doesn’t surprise me California is pretty interested in wine. I doubt it’s like that in say, Omaha.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Alan_Rath

Agree without Neal here.

As does the rest of America

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

@Alan_Rath

@Neal.Mollen

You think if the guy at the next table sees me walk in with a wine bag his first reaction is to get in a huff because I am a snob? Even if I say nothing to him and never interact with him in any way?

Agree without Neal here. My own experience is that the guy is more likely than not to show interest, and want to know why I’m bringing this wine. It’s a lot more likely to stimulate a nice interaction than anything negative.

The reactions our group wine dinners get from “regular” diners around us is usually pretty positive.

Agreed. The only people who think we are wine snobs drink Yellowtail and, if they want to prove how knowledgeable they are, they have Kistler Les Noisstiers for white and Silver Oak or The Prisoner for reds.

And then there was the time I showed up at a restaurant, now deceased, with my own bottle and my Durand. It was 10+ years ago and the Durand was a new invention. The waiters all laughed and thought I was crazy. I proceeded to open the 20 year old bottle myself as they stood around snickering. 15 minutes later, the waiter came to my table and said, “Excuse me, but we have a difficult cork at another table. Could we borrow your corkscrew?” Never wanting to lose an opportunity to make a point, I said, “I’ll open the bottle myself. It will take me too long to teach you how to use it.” I got up, walked across the room, and removed the cork. It turned out that I knew the people at the other table. I think there was a Berserker or two. I do not remember who.

[Fred_Daniels]

I love this discussion…having worked in the business in my youth, I came across “all kinds” of wine enthusiasts…accomplished people all who enjoyed drinking and talking about wine. All knew much more than me, but none were snobs.

Later in life I had two experiences that fit the bill as examples. Once I went to a wine tasting at a customers house…lots of people, lots of confusion at the start. Host sent me to the kitchen to slice the bread…It was a beautiful huge loaf from Tartine, and I got off two slices before he came back and said “Oh NO, that’s for me. I meant the Franciscan French loaf over there!!!”

The other was a dinner at a great bistro with high end customers…BYOB at the last minute…10 year old Raveneau Clos and Coche Corton Charlemagne and on and on. No one would even taste my Aubert Lauren. I think it would have polluted their palate. Sheesh.

[Chris_Seiber]

@VadimG

I do that too, Ian. Sometimes I don’t drink at birthday parties unless I can get a cocktail, but rarely would drink wine. I don’t consider it snobbery. It would be snobbery if I looked down at people who do drink the wine served at those events. I guess if people knew the real reason I decline wine, some would call me a snob.

Choosing not to drink wine that you don’t like isn’t snobbery.

Am I a snob if I don’t buy things in the supermarket or department store that I don’t like? If I don’t watch TV shows or movies that don’t look appealing to me? If I don’t go to restaurants that I don’t like?

Some people in the thread are trying way too hard to discover snobbery. You don’t have to be totally nondiscriminating in order not to be a snob.

“What? You didn’t go watch Fast and Furious 8? What a snob.”

“You don’t eat at The Golden Corral? You must be a snob.”

[Chris_Seiber]

@GWang

I don’t know of any of my non-wine friends that find it “snobby” were I to bring a bottle. I do think the thread has drifted significantly from the original statement that someone would never go to a restaurant that did not offer corkage–that is a significant distinction compared to just bringing your own bottle.

It also seems like snob/snobbish isn’t very well defined here. I don’t think it makes sense in the traditional sense of the word (as association with class superiority). As a relative newcomer to the board and to wine in general, there are certainly threads or posts that are off-putting or give off an exclusive air, but hard to say that even most of these are “snobbish.”

That’s the root problem with this thread. People are declaring anything a wine enthusiast does which is unconventional, surprising, unfamiliar, discriminating, seems “odd,” seems “geeky,” etc. to be snobbery.

It could be an interesting topic, if we discussed awareness of and how to avoid snobbery itself. Rather than just a circular firing squad about how most things you do that make you a wine person are snobbery.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Neal.Mollen

@VadimG

So what do you do when invited to a burger party? Brining your own food?
It’s actually a question to many on this thread myself included. Where is the line?

I would never, ever bring wine or GASP! stemware to someone else’s party unless they were wine geeks and we discussed the plan.

But going to a restaurant? I am still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that some people I don’t know, sitting at another table, would think it is snobbish for me to bring a bottle to enjoy with my wife.

Why do you care what people you don’t know and likely will never meet think of you. You are not being offensive or boorish. You are enjoying an evening with your wife. Enjoy life.

[Howard_Cooper]

@J_a_y_H_a_c_k

@Alan_Rath

@Neal.Mollen

You think if the guy at the next table sees me walk in with a wine bag his first reaction is to get in a huff because I am a snob? Even if I say nothing to him and never interact with him in any way?

Agree without Neal here. My own experience is that the guy is more likely than not to show interest, and want to know why I’m bringing this wine. It’s a lot more likely to stimulate a nice interaction than anything negative.

The reactions our group wine dinners get from “regular” diners around us is usually pretty positive.

Agreed. The only people who think we are wine snobs drink Yellowtail and, if they want to prove how knowledgeable they are, they have Kistler Les Noisstiers for white and Silver Oak or The Prisoner for reds.

And then there was the time I showed up at a restaurant, now deceased, with my own bottle and my Durand. It was 10+ years ago and the Durand was a new invention. The waiters all laughed and thought I was crazy. I proceeded to open the 20 year old bottle myself as they stood around snickering. 15 minutes later, the waiter came to my table and said, “Excuse me, but we have a difficult cork at another table. Could we borrow your corkscrew?” Never wanting to lose an opportunity to make a point, I said, “I’ll open the bottle myself. It will take me too long to teach you how to use it.” I got up, walked across the room, and removed the cork. It turned out that I knew the people at the other table. I think there was a Berserker or two. I do not remember who.

Dissing Yellowtail, Kistler, Silver Oak and the Prisoner? Who kidnapped Jay and replaced him with an AFWE person?

[Howard_Cooper]

Seems to me that there is an important distinction between being a wine snob and acting snobbishly. We are likely all wine snobs - even to each other. We like what we like and are not shy about expressing our preferences and dislikes to each other - often rather loudly (at least by writing) here.

But, I don’t see actions that don’t impact others - bringing a nice bottle of wine to a restaurant that allows BYOB, bringing you own stemware to the restaurant (as opposed to the house of a non-wine lover), and most of the other things described in this thread - as acting snobbishly. I put them in the category of enjoying life and not doing anything offensively to others.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

Jay was acting snobbishly to the wine staff, but it was only what they deserved for looking down at his Durand because of their own ignorance. There are times where put-downs are called for.

[Marc_Hauser]

@Jonathan_Loesberg

Jay was acting snobbishly to the wine staff, but it was only what they deserved for looking down at his Durand because of their own ignorance. There are times where put-downs are called for

He referenced waiters, not wine staff. Very different.

[Chris_Seiber]

So much of snobbery is “how you did it” rather than “what did you do.” I think one problem in this thread is people keep trying to describe a whole category of acts as snobbish or not snobbish.

For example, consider the issue of going to somewhere and not drinking the wine because it’s not a quality of wine that interests you.

In general, just choosing not to drink something you don’t want to drink isn’t snobbish, in the least. You’re not obligated to drink any wine available to you anywhere you go in order not to be a snob. If I go to a large cocktail party and there is wine, beer and booze available, and I decide to drink something other than wine, there isn’t anything snobbish about that in the slightest.

But, let’s say you go to a friend’s house, he says “Hey, I discovered this wine called Apothic Red and I think it’s really great. I know you are into wine, and I wanted to share it with you and see what you think.”

If you say “no thanks, I think that wine sucks,” then that’s definitely a snobbish thing to do. If you try a modest pour and tactfully say what you like more and less about it, then you don’t go on to drink several glasses of it, I think that’s not being a snob. “This style of wine is very popular these days, and it’s easy to see why. At a reasonable price point, it has a lot of ripe fruit and richness. I personally tend to like wines which have less sweetness and more acid, but I can see why this is popular, and I’m glad you’re enjoying it. Thanks for sharing it with me.”

Same with bringing wine to restaurants and to people’s houses, bringing stemware, talking about wine, buying expensive bottles. None of those things is universally snobbish or not snobbish, it really just depends on the details of how it happens and the context in which it happens.

I’d say be thoughtful about people and context as far as how you go about things, but otherwise don’t be afraid to enjoy your passion and hobby for fear someone might think you’re a snob.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

Not really. They were laughing at him for bringing an unnecessarily fancy corkscrew. That gave him the right to act as if they wouldn’t be able to use it–which, indeed, they might not have been; people on this board have made mistakes the first time–and to act as if he showed them.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Jonathan_Loesberg

Not really. They were laughing at him for bringing an unnecessarily fancy corkscrew. That gave him the right to act as if they wouldn’t be able to use it–which, indeed, they might not have been; people on this board have made mistakes the first time–and to act as if he showed them.

I have had a Durand for a bunch of years now and agree that there is a learning curve for using this. I remember when I first used it trying to put the tongs back into the holes before inserting it into the cork. Quickly learned not to repeat that mistake.

[Marc_Hauser]

@Jonathan_Loesberg

Not really.

Yes, really. He referenced “waiters.” You changed that to “wine staff.” The story is very different based on who it is.

[Neal.Mollen]

I’m such a wine snob I bought a twee little leather pouch for my fucking corkscrew for what a lot of non-snob people would spend on 6 bottles of wine!

Try and top that.

[J_Patrick_Lynch]

A codpiece, so to speak.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

You eliminate the rest of the message where I explain why I think you are making a distinction without a difference. For the argument to move forward, you would have to explain why the laughter of the waiters about that of which they are ignorant (and, if you reread the story, these waiters are tasked with opening bottles of wine), doesn’t justify Jay’s putdown.

[Neal.Mollen]

@J_Patrick_Lynch

A codpiece, so to speak.

Cod? How pedestrian. JohnDoryPiece, please.