Any great whites from Alto Adige?

WINE TALK
21

I admit, that was just a generalized simplification to explain why the quality (well, not quality per se, just drinkability) of AA Geurztraminers has been on a decline. :smiley: I hope people don’t now think Alto Adige is just a valley-shaped sauna in the Southern Alps! (Although my friend who visits Italy several times a year said that in 2018 and 2019, while visiting several wineries, the temperatures were at times rather infernal there!

Anyways, what we’ve discussed (and what he has discussed with the producers), the big problem is that many producers have reserved many of their (traditionally) best vineyards for Gewurztraminer, which tends to require more warmth and longer growing periods to achieve full ripeness. These vineyards have been those that have the best sun exposure and just enough airflow to keep the grapes dry without cooling the site too much - capable of letting grapes in the past achieve full ripeness even in cooler vintages. Since Alto Adige is quite efficiently protected by clouds, as the Dolomites / Alps keeps the region quite efficiently in rain shadow (basically the same phenomenon as in Alsace), the region is very sunny, and due to climate change, the average temperatures have climbed quite noticeably in the past 10-15 years, but the winemaking hasn’t really kept up with the pace - especially with the wines from the “best” vineyards.

Even Vorberg of today is a very different wine from those made in the 1990’s. It’s a substantial and quite tropical wine, whereas it used to be noticeably lighter in body in the past. However, Vorberg continues to be as impressive as ever, as its concentration and intensity carries the weightier body and higher alcohol with remarkable grace. The same applies to many other Pinot Biancos, but Gewurztraminers and Pinot Grigios haven’t fared equally well (although can’t remember seeing much Pinot Grigio from top vineyards - PG seems to have been a workhorse variety there, whereas PB and Gewurz have been considered more esteemed varieties.

These traditionally best vineyards used to be located at higher altitudes, where the ground drainage is better and where the sun exposure was best, while the valley floor was cooler and wetter. This friend of mine told how many producers are replanting their lower-yielding vineyards since they really don’t have to worry so much about drainage, whereas those lower vineyards tend to have much better temperatures regarding quality-oriented farming: the warmer air rises up, making those traditionally better vineyards too hot for high-quality grapes, whereas the cooler air gets pushed down, so that now those vineyards that are situated at lower parts of slopes are actually better suited for making fine wine. Sure, one could try to plant vineyards at even higher altitudes where the air would be cooler, but in most parts the vineyards are planted as high as it is possible to farm reasonably.

And these also should not be taken as generalizations that apply to all AA! There certainly are still some exceptional vineyards that produce remarkable wines at high altitudes and most lower-altitude vineyards are not suitable for making world-class wines. It’s just an interesting glimpse of how the balance has shifted there in such a short period of time.

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22

My best AA experiences have been with comparatively oddball varieties, not Pinot Grigio. My favorite somm suggestion of all time was Levi Dalton leading me to a Kuen Hof Sylvaner at Alto years ago. I’ve also enjoyed Kerner from the abbey I can’t remember/spell.

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“Great”? I will firmly say no. A close friend is a huge fan of AA, and pours them for me on a regular basis (or did before COVID), including many of the recommendations here. Many are quite good. None have had me looking for a second bottle, even highly regarded Gewurz and Pinot Blanc bottlings.

24

Abbazia di Novacella / Stiftkellerei Neustift? They do make some very impressive wines, although with my experience the wines can be a bit uneven. Some are stunning, some are meh, some can be a bit weird. But their Kerner Gaudium was really terrific, probably the best I’ve had - even better than those few Manni Nössing wines I’ve had.

And the aforementioned Tiefenbrunner Feldmarschall von Fenner is definitely a wine worth checking out; before this wine I never thought MĂŒller-Thurgau was capable of producing impressive world-class wines.

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I don’t know that I’d call the Abbazia di Novacella Kerner great, but it’s very good. It’s got some real complexity and it’s a stunning value at $16-$19.

I don’t see a listing in the US for the Gaudium bottling on Wine Searcher. Otherwise, I’d seek a bottle for sure.

26

I just emailed Oliver McCrum for his input. He brings in seven producers from the region.

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I’ve had the basic Kerner once, years ago, and didn’t find it particularly memorable. Seemed simple, fruity and slightly off-dry with relatively little in the way of structure or depth of flavor.

28

Otto,

Given how you describe the conditions, any thoughts on why they don’t grow more red wine? Seems like ripening shouldn’t be a problem.

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I agree, we’ve got a guy in our wine group that opens Beyond the Clouds fairly regularly and it’s always a very good bottle of wine.

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30

I’d wager it’s because of historical regions - they’ve always cultivated white varieties. Of those red varieties which are allowed in the appellation regulations, most are cool-climate varieties (Schiava, Lagrein, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Franc) so replanting vineyards with those varieties wouldn’t really fix things.

Unless they want to produce Vino da Tavola or the appellation laws are amended, probably the best course of action would be to replant the warmer vineyards with Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon - at least those varieties are allowed and they tend to produce quite impressive wines also in warmer climates.

But I guess the key reason is still tradition - if a producer (or several generations of producers) have always farmed and made white wine, it might be quite a big leap to suddenly start making Bordeaux blends.

31

There is plenty of red wine production. Lagrein and schiava (aka. vernatsch aka trollinger) being the main grapes, though pinot nero is there, too. I really like Pranzegg and Manincor for reds.

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32

The production of the Alto Adige is currently 40% red, 60% white, and Schiava/Vernatsch is still the most widely planted variety, although we still don’t see much of it here. I believe the red production used to be even higher. As you would imagine, the growers do tailor the variety to the specific site, so they tend to plant the reds lower down and the whites at altitude (at least, my growers do). The bottom of the valley is still largely planted to apples, which is the other important crop here.

This is one of the few Italian regions that I know of with a long history of using Bordeaux varieties, and IMO they make some very good ones.

For more information, there is a typically thorough website: www.altoadigewines.com

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33

With regard to the original question, for my taste some of Italy’s best white wines come from the Alto Adige (or South Tyrol, as the locals call it). I love Pinot Bianco, which can make fine, ageworthy wines here; Vorberg is excellent, and there are a number of others that are very good. I love Sauvignon here, the combination of sun and altitude gives very distinctive examples that can show the normal herbal notes but also grapefruit, apricot, mint (I import Niedrist and Baron Widmann, both excellent). There are some very good Sylvaners grown in the little side-valley called the Eisacktal/Isarco (such as Kuenhof, which I import), and Kerner does well too. And as noted by others Mueller Thurgau can be delicious here, I usually drink it within a year but the iconic Feldmarschall that others have mentioned can even age in the bottle.

As is obvious from everyone’s notes in this thread the co-ops in this area are all very good producers, which is unique in Italy. They have different styles, some riper, some finer, but there are almost no bad wines, in my experience. They tend to bottle two or three levels of quality; the basic level is good everyday drinking, the top wines are often from prized single sites like Vorberg and are comparable to the smaller producers.

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34

Strongly second the Feldmarschall and Vorberg, as well as the Elena Walch “Beyond the Clouds” that others have mentioned


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Im not certain but the time I had it may have been when one of you guys from the North came to visit. Could it be the same guy? [cheers.gif]

Now that I think about it. Almost certain it was either Sunnylea or Steve8 on your end or Jabe11 on ours

36

I was thinking of Paul Burak, but sunnylea and John Coates both open them as well.

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37

Thank you all. I have got lots to play with

38

I feel a bit amiss because I’m a bit pressed for time these days and simply cannot provide the reasoned response that this sort of post deserves. Still, I’d like to say that, while there are, obviously, a lot of elements here that are real enough and worth discussing, I do think there’s still a lot of generalisation involved and, overall, the situation is portrayed as more dramatic than it actually is at this stage. The reality across the region is a little more complex than all this. Plus the emphasis on white varieties
 I see that Oliver has addressed that already in passing. In short, this post seems to me VERY second-hand and very “selective”.

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39

As others have pointed out already, they grow lots of it and always have historically. Not an issue.

40

Yes, yes and yes and yes. One of the most misleading bits about Otto’s post was the one about altitude. No idea who his friend was talking to, or whether the post was simply not worded accurately, but, if we’re talking quality winemaking in AA, we’re talking mid-altitude, in comparative terms. Anything else, we’re talking about outliers. Low altitude, or valley floor, I’m yet to meet those, and I HAVE met a fair share. Again, sorry about the shorthand


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