Help me out. I’d like to give non-geek friends a description of red Burgundy that relates to something they’ve already experienced. “Oh, you like Russian River pinots? Then you’d find red Burgundy from (x) village to be in a somewhat similar style/have a similar flavor profile.” Ditto Sonoma, Dundee Hills, Rhys, Calera. I drink a fair amount of Thomas and I can’t match it up with anything…the 2002 after 11 years was sort of Morey-like. I think. 2011 Oregon pinot tannins sort of remind me of young Burgundy. 2003 red burgs that do not have excess alcohol seem kind of New World-y. That’s as far as I get.
From a thread posted today, here are some notes I excerpted that make the comparison of which I’m asking, for example the two Amalie TN’s taken together imply an Oregon-Burgundy style link; the Lambrays note might explain why I like Lambrays so much (reprinted without permission):
“'10 Domaine des Lambrays Clos des Lambrays Grand Cru Morey St Denis
Ruby Red, cranberry nose, whole cluster notes, medium weight, some cherry and strawberry fruit, hint of cinnamon. OK but young. I guessed Cali.
'07 Amalie Robert Amalies Cuvée
Red brick. Cinnamon, red cherry and flowers. Whole cluster, good acidity, balanced and elegant.
Guessed Oregon. Groups #3 tied”
…compared with another taster, same event:
“1-Amalie Robert: Wow. The lone Oregon entrant took top honors from me anyway. Totally had me fooled for Côte de Nuits Grand Cru. Was the full package, with very fresh (medium + acidity), rich dark fruit flavors, along with an impressive finish and balance.
2-Copain: As noted, this is the blue print for Burgundian CA Pinot. Very restrained for CA and without the brash spice and cola notes that so many CA wines had.”
A very expensive glass of Small Vines pinot in a restaurant last night tasted analogous to a region of France, but unfortunately it’s an oak forest somewhere near Provence…40 percent oak on the nose, 100 percent oak on the palate
I find Pinot from Pisoni and Garys’ Vineyard to be very NSG-like… a Dumol RRV recently was very Volnay in style. A Bergstrom Bergstrom was a spitting image for a Clos de Vougeot.
Now we’re talkin! Thanks.
George, new world Pinots (typically those with better quality IMHO) can display Burgundian characteristics. Not infrequently, Burgs from one AOC can present traits associated with another…but that’s a different topic.
When new world Pinots mimic Burgundy traits (to the point that you’re fooled in a blind tasting), I’ve found that it has more to do with producer style, vintage and vineyard practices than the individual new world vineyards. New world sites matter, but quite often the winemaker has a choice to let the fruit ripen longer than possible in Burgundy. This is less true for Oregon as compared to most of California, but there are warm Oregon vintages too.
Not doubting Nick’s experience, but I’ve had plenty of Pisoni and Garys’ Pinots that tasted nothing like Burgundy. YMMV.
RT
Apparently, in Richard’s World, genuine terroir does not exist in California - although tricky California winemakers can sometimes “mimic” the authentic article in Burgundy?
Mike, Give it a rest already…“New world sites matter”.
There are excellent wines from California but uber-ripeness blinds terroir IMHO…no matter how hallowed you or others deem the ground to be.
RT
I don’t think it’s really possible to do broad comparisons, and the world of Pinot is better off for that! The terroirs are different, the climates are different. If you could find Pinots that resemble, say, Gevreys, wouldn’t you think that Burgundy would be the first logical place to look? 
But even one Burgundy village can’t mimic another one! Not on any sort of consistent basis anyway…
Of course, individual wines can sometimes be compared to Burgundian counterparts. But I think it is mostly valid only in isolated cases.
Well, the villages are definitely different. Wine-wise I’ve had plenty of wines (blind) that could be a red fruited Morey or Chambolle or Vosne or Volnay. An Ech can easily resemble a CV or even a Gevrey. Beaune and NSG are always readily differentiated? Fixin and Marsannay or Ladoix, Aloxe-Corton, Pernand, Savigny…always evident and distinct? There are far more talented palates than mine, but even after 1000s of Pinots…when tasting blind, I’m very happy to guess the right country with the approximate State or sub-region being a bonus. Hell, it’s harder than most people would ever want to believe, to confidently identify the grape.
RT
Sorry Nick–I agree with Richard. I find Pisoni to be about as Californian as any PN out there. Bergstrom is too sweet to be mistaken for CdV IMO
I am not familiar with Oregon pinots, but I’ll come out and say that I have never had a Californian pinot that really tasted like Burgundy. They were always sweeter – even restrained examples like Anthill. Haven’t had a huge volume of U.S. pinots so maybe I’m just not experienced enough. Still, my general sense is that it is pretty futile to seek out an American pinot that ‘tastes like Burgundy’. They’re just two totally different wines; don’t be fooled by the fact that they use the same grape.
I think “taste like” is being used to liberally here. I have caught hints of burgundy in new world pinot, and vice versa. But never when I put the bottle next to the bottle it reminded me of are they interchangeable. There might be a similar note, but the differences are also prominent.
the problem with doing analogies between US pinot and Burgundy is the general lack of vineyard sharing in the US. It’s rare in Burgundy to come across a monopole while you find many more monopoles in the US.
Man, that’s a great question! (The original post.)
I can’t think of any consistent congruency.
12 responses and only one even tried to answer my OP. Which leads me to conclude:
Either:
(1) People that know Burgundy well enough to be familiar with a particular commune’s characteristics have had their palates changed so that new World pinot, even those that are closer to Burgundian than other New World pinots, still taste so new World to them, that there’s no point in stating which Burgundy commune they most resemble, because the resemblance overall is too small to note; or,
(2) people who mostly drink New World pinot, and find the leaner-crisper-earthier ones to be “Burgundian”, don’t drink enough Burgundy to have it occur to them, unbidden, which commune the New World wine most resembles, or
(3) people who do find that a certain new World pinot reminds them very much of a certain Burgundy, dismiss the comparison because that must mean that the Burgundy is atypical and not reflective either of terroir or of true Burgundy, for example 2003’s, or the Magniens. The advice of people in this category would be unhelpful to me in general, I do like New World tasting Burgundies, where the fruit is liqueur-like (but not just those Burgundies).
(4) there are not more New World pinots that closely resemble certain wines from Burgundy. I refuse to accept this.
I think Nick and I need to put together an SF Bay Area tasting of “Burgundian” New World pinots and “New World-tasting” Burgundies. Harrington? Wind Gap? Arnot-Roberts? Rhys Horseshoe? Magnien? 2003 Cote de Nuits? The first three I am not familiar with, I’m just guessing what would be included.
I’ll qualify my comparison by stating I find the similarities obvious if you compare riper Burgundy vintages and leaner New World vintages (for example, 2010 here vs. 2009 Burgundy). Given that, there really isn’t that much of an alcohol difference (many 2009/2010 Burgs push close to 14%, most Cali Pinot is between 13.5-15).
In general, I’m not a fan of Cali Pinot that tries overly hard to be Burgundian – that’s what Burgundy is for, and Burgundy does it better, even for the same price. I’ve made peace with Cali Pinot that just tries to be itself by enjoying them as they are and not trying to age them.
dont feed the troll
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George, I think the answer for me and others is that only individual wines can be compared. The domestic appellations in general are large. That alone makes it hard to generalize. Couple that the vast range of plant material and vine age variance, and the typically longer harvest windows, and the range is staggering. I had a Ojai bien nacido Santa maria valley 2010 a few weeks ago that reminded me a lot of a Jerome chezeaux vaucrain 1er nsg 2009. I could not extrapolate that logic to include even most santa maria valley wines, or even most nsg for that matter.