An idea for Commerce Corner

Commerce Corner - Wine Classifieds
1

It has been submitted to me privately that some would like to sell wines, but don’t like that their name (in username) is made public. I can see many reasons for this, actually, and a proposal was made to see if perhaps it could be changed.

I have looked into the possibility of making Commerce Corner a much more vibrant tool for wine sellers and buyers, and much different from what other ‘for sale’ type forums are. I would invite your feedback either on this thread or privately via email at todd at wineberserkers.com

Here’s the general idea as it is currently being considered:

All buyers/sellers will be anonymous - communication will be via PM, and interested buyers will be contacted by the seller. Once the seller knows and chooses to reveal himself/herself via communication with an interested buyer, the transaction can take place.

Feedback could be added as well, beyond the ‘feedback forum’ listed on here as a subforum. This will aid potential buyers in knowing who to contact when something interests them.

It was also suggested that Commerce Corner (whether part of the forum or broken off to a separate sort of entity) be a pay-for-use for sellers, who must either pay a small amount annually to post items for sale, or agree to a commission structure, much like an auction, but far more insignificant. Within the same suggestion, it was stated that such a fee would easily be recovered in one’s first sale on the site, which is true. Something like $20.00, for example.

Again, I invite your commentary either here or privately via email - todd at wineberserkers.com

Let’s see if we can put together something unique and valuable.

2

Both of those sound like barriers to commerce. Part of what makes CC work is that you know who you are dealing with upfront and you don’t have to jump through hoops to participate. A lot of people using this aren’t trying to make money, just pass along wine they aren’t interested in.

Just my $.02

3

Could be awkward. Suppose someone offers 1989 Giacosa Rionda Riserva for say $59.99 . . . a case. So I PM the person and it turns out to be you. Now I think, this fool doesn’t know what he’s talking about or everyone knows Todd is crook, what do I do then?
[pillow-fight.gif]

4

Knowing who you are actually dealing with is a big deal with private sales (especially with wine).

5

Not in favor. One of the best parts about buying wine in such a place is knowing who you are dealing with. Anonymous handles only opens us up to random people trying to make a buck and not be tracked. They have outlets for those activities on the web elsewhere. In fact, the only reason I see for that is people who don’t want to participate here but would like to profit from us.

6

I’d like to keep this thread as serious as possible, as it deals with an opportunity to make CC more significant and effective.

I know of several who are not posting wines for sale because they don’t want the whole (registered) world to know they are selling them. This makes sense to me. Potential buyers would contact the sellers with their interest, and they obviously wouldn’t send money without knowing who the person is, so I don’t see the risk, really. Once they know the person (via a contact after the initial inquiry), it’s just like seeing the individual who originally posted it, in full username glory.

In addition, there would likely be either more features surrounding the rating system, or just more encouragement of using it, perhaps as a required ‘closing’ of the thread, allowing buyers to know more about the seller than just a recognized username.

If I charge the sellers to use it, they are far less likely to rip people off, too, posting items that are not really for sale. Additionally, there would be a required post count, so all those on the CC would be legitimate members, not those signing up to shill, and CC posts won’t count toward the total.

I think many of you have to re-read the original post, and this one, as there seems to be a lack of understanding, particularly regarding the ‘anonymous’ aspect.

7

I’m not sure why someone doesn’t want to be known for selling their wines but lets pretend they do have a good reason. Why do they need to sell it here then?

8

Anonymous doesn’t work b/c knowing the seller is important. Altho in places such as Craigslist, you don’t know the seller either, but I guess there u meet in person where as here you have to trust the seller (most cases not in the same location as you)

pay per use = greatly reduced activity… makes the buyer suffer b/c it cuts out competition, as well as reduce overall supply.
i.e. someone has allocation to a wine that’s relatively hard to get… not enough to flip for profit.
now: easy - put it on CC… sold
pay: why bother, just not gonna order the wine…


I do have a suggestion though:
Make CC postings more standardized in format.
i.e. vintage, name, # of bottles, price
then, shipping, location, discount details (case/6pack/etc)

this way it’s easier to scan/look, as some people sell things without price, and some write essays…

9

There are people you know well, and respect, who have submitted this request to me.

They are not selling because they do not want everybody to see that they are selling wine, but they are happy dealing with a buyer one on one.

10

What’s wrong with selling wine?

withOUT naming names, can you provide a sample reason as to why they dont’ want people to know they’re selling wine?

plus if they’re selling some super rare bottle… if we see some crazy rare 17 century wine for sale… we’d all inquire to find out no?

if it’s just bottles of regular plonk, who cares?

11

I’m with Mark, I don’t get any of it. Everyone sells wine. No one judges them for it. I hope one of my friends can explain that to me then. [wink.gif]

Biggest issue is that I see it as a minus for the board community in general and a plus for a few to make a profit. This is a bulletin board and not a marketplace.

12

Mark, it would appear that you would not be interested in selling if there was a charge for it, and I understand this could be the issue for some. A nominal fee does many good things, however:

It keeps out the casual shill.
It encourages those planning to sell to actually post MORE because they want to get their money’s worth
It is the only way to sell privately to this growing community

I can’t make it more standardized, and this would limit those who have a lot to sell, or have mixed lots they wish to combine, etc.

13

Well, there are some who are not simply because it is not anonymous.

People in the industry (ITB, winemakers, media, etc) might not want it known that they are selling wine, as it might look bad for their business, company, or reputation, who knows.

If you are serious about buying a wine, and know that 1) the person has a minimum post count and is therefore part of the community, 2) paid some money as a very nominal fee so is serious, and 3) will contact you and will be ‘revealed’ to you when they reply to your inquiry about wine you are interested in, what’s the problem? If it increases the number of wines listed, and simultaneously IMPROVES the quality of the posts (because as of now, any schmuck can register and list, with no post count, no history here, and no act of commitment in the part of selling (a la the nominal CC fee), why would it not be a superior system?

14

to be unbiased… there is a model of a successful forum that charges to participate in selling…
a camera equipment forum, fredmiranda . com. The activity there is tremendous, though you pay a fee every year if you want to sell stuff. so i’m not saying it can’t work…

However, re: anonymity:
If you implement a fee based selling program, i really don’t see why people want to be anonymous?
isn’t your reputation as a seller one of your biggest assets?
Given the same wine, i’d buy it from the guy i’ve bought from before, or has good community feedback… wouldn’t most?

I guess you’d need to do an analysis of # of seller GAINED from anonymity, vs transactions lost due to people just not wanting to bother …

15

another thing…

what about WTB posts?
charge to post that? or only “FS” posts?
Todd, I think you should take a look at the FM site (Fredmiranda)… they work it really well

i paid for it one year when i sold a bunch of camera gear…

16

Mark - the Fred Miranda ‘for sale’ forum is exactly the type of model I plan to have, and as you have said, it works.

I would likely add a commercial component to it, although at a different rate, possibly in a different section of the commerce corner.

WTB posts are treated the same as FS posts as well.

The reputation issue would be covered in the Feedback forum/system, where, once you know who it is (since you can assume fairly that it is a trustworthy member because of all the reasons I listed above, which is MORE than what we have now, I might point out) you can check the Feedback forum, which works for both buyers and sellers, as that forum will have names/usernames.

17

I’m pretty sure WTB posts were allowed for free at FredM
:slight_smile:… but otherwise it does work…

still not down with anonymous tho

18

I’m going to disagree that there will be a significant number who don’t want to bother, but either way, I do believe more will be listed as a result based on private feedback concerning this issue.

The reputation WILL exist, and, unlike it does now, it will exist from the get-go, as each seller has to be admin-approved, and I check post count and be sure the fee for selling/listing was paid. That’s a significant step right there that does not currently happen, yet you think it is somehow LESS secure in the proposed manner? This I do not understand.

Reputation will be highlighted in the feedback forum for those who want to check. As for me, I’ve never had issue with any sellers, and I don’t even look, quite frankly, as I normally ‘know’ the seller anyhow. I’m not sure why people are this concerned about it, as someone’s reputation would be gravely at stake if they were actually members here on a public forum and decided to screw up a sale. For those buying cases of 1947 Bordeaux, sure, you might check, but if you are throwing out $80 for a few bottles of wine that you now know who is selling it (since you are interested and therefore contacted them), would you really check the feedback forum??

It’s amazing that this happens constantly on ebay and Vinfolio (if we stay within the industry) and nobody says boo about it, yet I’m proposing what is actually a more secure system, and it’s being argued as less…

19

Nope, not according to their own site:

“Posting on the Buy & Sell board is limited to Buy and Sell and Image Upload subscribers only. As a subscriber, you will be able to start New Topics as: FS (For sale), FT (For trade), WTB (Want to buy) or OA (Outside auction)”

20

I’ve used eBay as both a buyer and seller for ten years, and I’ve been involved in well over a thousand transactions. Every one of those transactions started anonymously, and with a far bigger pool of members than we have here on WB. The thing is, it’s only anonymous until you choose to engage someone in a transaction. Once you do, it’s all in the open. I have never written a check or sent a PayPal payment to a name like Smurfcollector12345.

If members want a greater degree of privacy for their sales, I don’t see the harm. The board can’t make guarantees, but we can at least endorse a member as someone who has been on the board for X months, engaged in X sales or purchases, and hasn’t screwed anyone over.