I noticed that Vinous says for many of Rhys wines to hold them for 8+ years from vintage date. I’m wondering what typically happens with Rhys wine. For example, I had a 2019 Porcupine Hill Pinot Noir the other day. I wouldn’t consider it big or full structured.
Is it the same with chardonnay?
Thanks
We’ve done a number of extended tastings with Rhys wines, such as the one linked above. Obviously opinions vary and different bottlings vary, but I think the general consensus has been that the Rhys SVD pinots usually show their best at 10+ years.
Which is not to say they’re overly big or tannic or hard to enjoy younger than that, but just that you get the best experience with that amount of age. Again, just as a broad, sweeping generality.
I think the Chardonnay can age well in a shorter range than that. Maybe more like up to 10 years from the vintage to get the best experience. Younger, they are more bright and crystalline, then later they get a little more rounded, so it may depend on what you like. And then with Chardonnay under cork, there is always going to be more risk of variation or failure if you keep them a long time, so YMMV.
I actually had a Rhys 2009 SCM Chardonnay (not one of the SVDs, but not Alesia either) a few weeks ago, because I found it in my cellar where it hadn’t been recorded. It actually turned out to be perfectly good, though the fruit was fading a bit and it probably had been at its best several years younger. Nice wine though for 13 year old appellation Chardonnay which probably sold for $40 or something at the time.
I have been extremely disappointed, overall, with the apparent aging curve many of these have travelled. This is not to say they’re bad — usually they’re not — but the Drink Windows that extend multiple decades out are, imo, very wrong.
This does not apply to every Rhys wine I’ve had. I have not had every wine Rhys has made. But I am sitting on a stash that is disproportionally large, relative to all of my holdings. With 110 separate TNs on Rhys wines, I feel I have a comfortable grasp on their wines from a certain time period (generally, 2008 through 2016).
All of my notes are in CT and also on this board.
What do you think tend to be the better drinking windows for the SVD pinots, Brian?
10 years, approx… Some seem to be degrading a bit before that, others have shown they’ll go longer. But none have struck me as 20 year wines.
And, of importance: none of the Pinots I’ve been aging since release have truly wowed me with bottle age. Sure, some have been excellent, but as I sit here now I literally cannot recall even one particular experience.
Not only do they, on the whole, seem to be falling apart early, but they’re just not developing into anything magical like one would hope for from properly-stored, appropriately-aged, Pinot Noir. They just don’t seem to be improving beyond the relaxed-primary stage; my experience thus far has been a perception that the fruit falls away before it morphs into “aged fruit flavors.”
Again, this does not apply to every one I’ve had, just a majority. If one goes into CT, clicks on my Tasting Notes, and filters for Rhys Pinot Noirs, one can skim and pretty quickly see what I’m talking about. “Drink Now and over the near term” has been a very common theme in my Rhys PN TNs the past two to three years.
Thanks for the feedback. I’m just interested why out of the gate, Vinous recommends waiting 8 years. Maybe I’m new to the nuance of aging, but they don’t seem overly tannic or big.
What should I expect from 5-8 years of aging?
I don’t think anyone has really figured it out yet. There are three distinct eras for Rhys IMO, 2004-2008, which are mostly rougher, tougher wines. The 2008s seem to have the most staying power, but also are slow developers. 2009 - 2011 is a weird, in-between phase for me. I have never known what to make of most of them. For my taste the best were the less expensive blends.
Then we get to the “modern era” for Rhys, of 2012 to the present. These are the red wines that for me are starting to fulfill the promise of the venture. That said, most of them are still a bit young, though the 2013s seem to be rounding into form.
Honestly I think their Syrahs are their best wines, but Syrah is a tough sell for a lot of folks.
I think David the most important point. Rhys has not been exactly consistent on the winemaking regimen over the years so its a bit hard to nail down the windows. We’ve done more than one tasting that covered bottles going back to '06. Many of the wines from '06 to '08 continue to show quite young or even closed. Those are the vintages I’m most experienced with. The few tastes of I’ve of the post '09 vintages seem to show a more reserved style without the density or extraction I’ve seen from the older wines.
My feelings.
I tasted a young horizontal single blind, and invariably liked the Santa Cruz mountain wines and was underwhelmed by the others.
More generally speaking - not referring to Rhys as I have only sampled a handful of wines - wines don’t have to come off as big or even tannic to require aging.
In fact, to me in a way the tightness found in more light bodied wines which speaks to the possible benefit of aging actually makes the wine “less big.”
This is what I was looking for, an explanation of what the aging effect would have. Thank you!
I found quite a few older rhys wines I forgot about the other day when putting away my 2019 BDX’s. a lot of 07,08 and 09’s. guess Im gonna have to open some up soon to see if they are going strong (fingers crossed).
I think you’ll probably be happy with them if you like Rhys wines. I don’t think any sound bottles of their wines from that age should be over the hill or anything – even though of course we all can have our opinions about whether they’re as good as you hoped, whether you liked them better at a different age, etc.
But yes, this is a good time to start opening some of those.
Interesting thread. I have to say I share Brian’s perspective, that while my aged bottles have been fine, I haven’t had a single one that wowed me with its additional development. I have enjoyed younger examples just as much, if not a bit more.
So now that I’m writing this, I’m realizing I need to get to work on that stash in my cellar…
I’ve only opened 2. The 2018 Horseshoe chard seemed like it needed a lot of time and I don’t plan on opening any soon, while the 2018 Family Farm pinot was awesome right after delivery in 2021. Holding onto the Horseshoe pinots and PR sparkling as well.
Have to agree with everything you say here, Brian.
The '09s are ready. Start with those. The couple '08s I’ve had are still showing young (I wish Rhys was still making wines in that style). I can’t comment on the '07s, but I’m sure others here can.
After reading this, I pulled a 2007 Alpine Hillside Pinot tonight. All in all, really pretty good and not a wine I would pick out as being from CA. Very tannic, with rich, dark fruit. A bit of tertiary development, but not a lot. No need to be in any rush to open this, but hard to say if the tannins will resolve sufficiently for this to actually shine. Decent wine and exceeded my expectations, which unfortunately have eroded over the years. Hard to say if this would have been better/worse 10 years ago, but a solid Rhys offering either way.
I’ve been following the 07 Alpines as well and for me they are a drink now and enjoy. Have one left, its on deck for Thanksgiving. Consistently they have delivered and been thought-provoking in later years. I just feel trying to stretch more time is just unnecessary gambling and I don’t feel there will be much marked improvement left on that runway. Looking at CT, its 44/55% cellar/consumed oddly, so there’s folks holding despite accounting for those that forgot to drink/remove. I think they are at their best now. I’d not hold back unless you want to experiment for science.
Edit, just looked and also have an Alesia Green Valley, that’s on deck too for this year.
I mean, anyone can push something to its (perceived) limits, I just find it unnecessary beyond a certain point with these. To someone else perhaps I’m just wrong on that.