This sort of important insight is why I come to WineBerserkers. Where else can you get this high quality info?
Kidding.
Fair point about variation, and that would mean you agree that screw caps are better and more reliable for wine, even if you intend on cellaring. Regardless there is a wealth of research contradicting the claim about oxygen exchange, though as you said, knowing how much is good would be important:
https://brocku.ca/webfm_send/23987
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf9023257?journalCode=jafcau
Summary, (I’m no scientist) Every enclosure has a different rate of oxygen transfer (plus you need to account for additional headspace with screwcaps) but synthetic corks have very low rates of exchange, while corks and other screwcap types (there are a variety) range from medium to high levels of oxygen exchange.
Just the once, on a bottle of riesling that must have taken a hit during delivery. By the time it arrived there was ~ 10-15% gone from the bottle. The merchant sorted a refund out promptly, but not sure if they got anything from the delivery company. I doubt it knowing what they are like.
Once in the cellar, it would be a very surprising scenario to cause similar damage.
I have had one damaged screwcap in 16 years (first exposure to caps was 2001 vintage). I have had hundreds of TCA infected or otherwise defective corks in my 24 years of active collecting.
Only once and it was my fault - I dropped a screwcapped Egon Muller onto the cellar floor (from just above knee height) and punctured the screwcap resulting in a leak, meaning I had to drink the wine over the next few days. A cork sealed bottle would have presumably survived the fall. Still 1 bottle that I had to drink earlier than expected through my own fault is very minor in the scheme of things.
And unfortunately, I think I know that bottle
No closure is perfect or failsafe . . .
Yeah, well…
I also feel this way. We never know about the long term effects of anything until we observe the long term effects of that thing. And even then, you have to be looking for the right things. If you don’t know what to expect, you can get nasty surprises.
Humility paired with science is a very potent force for the advancement of mankind. When we assume we have all the variables covered without really knowing all the variables yet, that’s no bueno.
I mean, the idea of storing spirits in lead decanters is on it’s way out. But no one had an issue with that for a long time because no one knew any better.
OK Barry and Scott, what would be good enough for you? Let me guess, 50 year trials that will be over after you are dead.
A friend bottled his 2007 Alexander Valley Bordeaux blends in screwcap and over the last 8 years I’ve literally drunk cases them. There has been development but it’s been glacial. The bottle I opened Saturday was very fresh tasting.
Can someone point me in the direction of current research that shows that wines develop ‘in a proper manner’ under natural cork over, say, a 20-30 year old period?
Please include in that standard deviations for trans ox and for incidence of TCA and other ‘off’ issues due to natural cork? Make sure to include both white and red wines please - and for heaven’s sake, please don’t include Australian wines - because heck, we obviously can’t trust any research using THOSE wines . . .
Cheers.
Obviously that’s not reasonable. But it is fairly reasonable to ask questions about something acidic (wine) that we plan to consume being in long term contact with any substance.
Seems like a low risk, and not one to worry much about, unless you collect a LOT of wine, store it a VERY long time, and plan to drink it daily after a few decades in storage on it’s side. In that case, I’d want to have a very high degree of faith in the chemistry going on (long long term) between the wine and the cap liner.
I doubt many people are in that situation. I’m not, so I drink screwcap wine without worrying about it. It does have some advantages too.
And even for those rare people who plan to store a lot of screwcap wine longterm, if they were concerned at all (which I doubt many are) they could store those bottles standing up, in cases. Corks needed to stay wet, thus the bottles sit on their side. From my understanding (correct me if I am wrong on this), screwcaps don’t have to be stored sideways or stay wet to maintain a good seal. So where is the advantage to putting them in contact with the wine, long term?
Anyways, back to the MAIN point, ageability – I would be very curious to try bottles of from the same barrel that had some cork closure and some as screwcap to see how each compared at 5 years, 10 years, 15 and 20.
And if I make it to the age where I can try a 50 year old screwcap, David, I’ll PM you and we can drink it together. lol.
Not many producers have and continue to produce the same wines under both closures - and that’s because the winery itself usually determines that one closure is ‘superior’ to them than the other.
Plumpjack is an exception - they’ve bottled there reserve cab under both screw cap and cork since the 1997 release. Both are available upon release, but from what I understand, the screw cap version usually sells out faster even though they are priced identically.
Some producers have bottled their wines under both closures once or twice - I know that Carlisle used to - not sure that they still do. And I know that Tablas has bottled wines under both closures - not sure they do it each year and not sure they do it for commercial purposes or internal ones.
I hope that helps . . .
Cheers!
Hi Barry
IRO storing screwcapped wines horizontally or vertically, you are right that the argument for keeping the cork wet (the need actually disputed by some, but that’s another discussion) is negated for screwcaps. Upright is considered fine. However, most people I know continue to store horizontally because…
- That’s how their storage is set up!
- If a cap has a faulty seal / gets knocked to break the seal, standing it upright will not show any signs of problem, but would lead to an oxidised wine, but keeping it horizontal would reveal the leak, allowing the bottle to be drunk before oxidation sets in.
regards
Ian
I actually keep almost all of my screwcapped wines upright in boxes. That way there is no banging against the racks, or, with my “two deep” racking where German bottles must go neck to neck, against other bottles.
I have long wondered how it would be received if we had been using screw closures for decades and decades, and then someone came along and said, “I have a better idea: let’s stick a piece of a tree into the bottle.”
A customer of ours grabbed a 2008 Molly Dooker Violinist the other day just to see how it was holding up under screw cap. He said it was good and quite flavorful when he opened it and it got even better after it had a chance to “open up.” This is a high ABV Australian Verdelho. He said he didn’t notice the alcohol when he was drinking it, but did the next morning.
Bottles of 2005 Domaine des Baumard Quarts de Chaume seem to be aging just fine under screw-cap…now at 12 years post vintage and rarely do I see a negative note on CT
But Randy,
That’s an Aussie wine - no one here seems to care about their track record.
I had an 05 under screw cap not too long ago - drop dead gorgeous . . .