Ageability of Cali Pinot

[Jason_T]

I haven’t found that aging CA pinots helps that much. And not many hold up that long with the exception of Marcassin. I drink them whenever and really haven’t noticed a difference though I had a ‘08 Kistler cuvée Elizabeth last nite that was fabulous!!

Mt. Eden too. Totally different style for Marcassin and a fraction of the price, but will age (and evolve, unlike a lot of other California Pinot).

[Jason_T]

Several years ago 1978 and 1980 Chalone Pinot Noirs stopped me in my tracks

Similar moment for me - 1974 David Bruce had in 2018. Haunting. Held up for nearly 4 hours in decanter.

[Hal_Blumberg]

Hi David,

It’s all about what flavor profiles you enjoy the most. No matter what critics or others tell you, maybe you like the more exuberant fruit of younger wines. Either that or try some CA pinots that have a great track record for aging and pick vintages that are aging well based on critics or CellarTracker. I think the recommendations above for ageability are good- Dehlinger, Mt Eden, Calera, etc. I’d add Talley (especially their Rosemary’s) and Rhys.

Cheers,

Hal

[Doug_Lee]

David,

FWIW a 2001 Arcadian Pisoni PN sampled 2 days ago was gorgeous and quite fresh. I typically don’t start sampling these wines until they have aged 15 years or more.

Cheers,
Doug

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

This category is quite a mixed bag. Like others here, we’ve had varied results with aging these.

Agreed. I have found no road to predictability with wonderful surprises I’d never expect and disappointments from pedigreed offerings.

Sort of like dating.

[CJ_Beazley]

Isn’t there a happy medium between truly making old bones and just looking for some tannin resolution and the wine knitting together?

[dsimmons]

Depends on the wine but maybe more importantly an individuals taste preferences. For my tastes I have found the conventional wisdom on domestic Pinots to be conservative.

[Brady_Daniels]

Isn’t there a happy medium between truly making old bones and just looking for some tannin resolution and the wine knitting together?

I don’t know about a happy medium, but saying that a wine that lasts ten years qualifies as aging well surprises me. Not falling apart at ten years is surviving. IMHO, Aging well means a wine transforms into something very different, and to some palates - fantastic, over decades.

The wines from the ‘70’s above seem to qualify.

Nobody is amazed by mature burgundy because it survives or mellows, they are amazed because it transforms.

[Mel_Knox]

When I taught wine classes the hardest question to answer was about ageing wine. What ages well and what doesn’t?? Why should we age wine?? It used to be that developing smoothness was important but now that everyone seems to have managed tannins sometimes I am not sure what the point is. Wines changes but do they get better or just different??
I want what Brady wants, something fantastic.

With Pinot from the Golden State sometimes your best bet is a discussion with the people at the winery. Have the wines aged well and/or are they meant to age?? Sometimes extensive tasting notes are published here and that is a big help.

Of course, you cannot always trust winemaker’s opinions. Burt Williams said his wines should be drunk in five years or so but if you read Blake Brown’s notes it was more like thirty plus.

[GregT]

About 30% of the wine I ens up pouring down the sink, because it tastes so bad. I purchased the wine directly from the winery and it has been stored in offsite temp and humidity controlled storage. I just assumed that I held on to the bottles too long, but these great reviews of older bottles are confusing me.

As others have said, a lot depends. But you actually bring up a few separate things above. Here’s how I would look at it:

1. You age wine to improve it. Not to keep it the way it was when bottled, or to preserve the primary fruit. If that’s what you want, just drink it young.

2. For any serious wine, 2009 is not “older” or close to mature.

3. “High quality” has different meanings depending on who you are speaking to. Some people have never even considered buying a KB Pinot Noir.

4. Not all Pinot Noir is age-worthy Pinot Noir.

5. Not everyone who writes a tasting note has a clue as to what they’re talking about. Take all those reviews with a grain of salt. Or ignore completely - your choice.

6. People like to feel good about their decisions, so even if they don’t LOVE their wines, they often cut some slack in their review because they’ve spent money on the wine and they know the label. There’s a reason companies build and protect their brands.

7. At the end of the day, the unfortunate truth is that you’re talking about Pinot Noir. Do yourself a favor and look around for some real wine.

Best of luck!!

[Bdklein]

About 30% of the wine I ens up pouring down the sink, because it tastes so bad. I purchased the wine directly from the winery and it has been stored in offsite temp and humidity controlled storage. I just assumed that I held on to the bottles too long, but these great reviews of older bottles are confusing me.

As others have said, a lot depends. But you actually bring up a few separate things above. Here’s how I would look at it:

1. You age wine to improve it. Not to keep it the way it was when bottled, or to preserve the primary fruit. If that’s what you want, just drink it young.

2. For any serious wine, 2009 is not “older” or close to mature.

3. “High quality” has different meanings depending on who you are speaking to. Some people have never even considered buying a KB Pinot Noir.

4. Not all Pinot Noir is age-worthy Pinot Noir.

5. Not everyone who writes a tasting note has a clue as to what they’re talking about. Take all those reviews with a grain of salt. Or ignore completely - your choice.

6. People like to feel good about their decisions, so even if they don’t LOVE their wines, they often cut some slack in their review because they’ve spent money on the wine and they know the label. There’s a reason companies build and protect their brands.

7. At the end of the day, the unfortunate truth is that you’re talking about Pinot Noir. Do yourself a favor and look around for some real wine.

Best of luck!!

You make some valid points. And one really asinine statement.

[JohnP]

I don’t plan to open any of my Ceritas or Calera Selleck before 10 year. Tried a 2011 Ceritas Costalina last year and was still far from peak. These producers definitely make 15 to 20 year old age-ability pinots. Also, Peter Michael and Morlet make robust pinots that have similar age-worthy trajectory.

[Glenn_L_e_v_i_n_e]

08 & 09 Escarpa have been very fine indeed lately.

[Markus_S]

[I think the bottles were held long -IMO . I don’t think KB was designed/meant to be aged for 10+ years . Not saying it can’t hold up nor doesn’t need some time to come together-but the wine doesn’t need to aged .

Also , I find some people cellar Cali pinot too long …

Hmmm…sounds simliar to German pinot noir

[Markus_S]

7. At the end of the day, the unfortunate truth is that you’re talking about Pinot Noir. Do yourself a favor and look around for some real wine.

Excellent!

[Dennis_Atick]

Since Tom’s been mentioned in the thread, I’ll just say that a 1988 Dehlinger Pinot Noir consumed last October was mind-boggling good. One of the top California pinots of the last few years for me, bested only by the 1991 Morgan Reserve (Dujac in disguise) and some late-90s Arcadians (surprise, surprise).

[GregT]

Markus, meet my friend Bruce!

[RichardFlack]

Some of old Caleras were able to age 30 years, particularly from the Jensen vineyard. A little hit and miss, but quite lovely if you found a good bottle.

What about recent Calera?
I have a couple of bottles in the “unsure” category at the moment.

[Anton_D]

Some of old Caleras were able to age 30 years, particularly from the Jensen vineyard. A little hit and miss, but quite lovely if you found a good bottle.

One of the great agers!

[NoahR]

I don’t know about Dehlinger. I hated the KB’s I’ve had - sickly sweet, overripe and unbalanced, but YMMV. Older Kistlers I have had have been fairly good but mostly just well-preserves without anything interesting having happened over 15y or so.

Board darlings like Kutch and Rhys haven’t been around long enough to tell. Even Ceritas, honestly, doesn’t go back that far.

GC burgundy tended to be more tannic and rough in the days that it struggled to ripen. It is often reduced and nearly undrinkable early. But as it unfurls overtime, some incredible things can happen. I don’t know if those same tertiary things happen in US Pinot often before the tannins recede and the fruit takes on a softer, more stewy and treacly note and the whole thing just becomes sweet and soft and yech to my tastes.

But I can vouch for Old Calera, and Old Cameron and Old Eyrie and Burt-era Williams-Selyem. They have largely retained a sense of balance as they age, but I can’t tell you how they compared to 2000’s and 2010’s açaí pinots because climate and winemaking have changed so much.