AG scores for Napa 2016 Part 1

[larry_schaffer]

And a bunch of people probably will . . .

The reality is that there are now so many ‘prominent’ reviewers out there and it’s getting more and more difficult to ‘stand out’. The days of the likes of Parker or anyone else ‘calling a vintage right’ like he did in '82 whereas others went the other way is probably not going to be seen any more. Too many folks out there tasting these days - and too many ‘tight relationships’ between winemakers/owners/critics to see this happen.

Long gone are the days when most wines were tasted in ‘mass’ tastings and more often than not, these reviewers are sitting down with individual winemakers at their facilities or in ‘comfy’ conditions or even at dinner, seeing the wine in a different way than before. I’m not saying that this is ‘wrong’, but I believe that this affecting the way that scores are being doled out.

And I will agree with Craig here - the whole concept of this thread is that one person went one way whereas others went another - and g-d forbid a reviewer is allowed to have a ‘different’ opinion, especially when, as I mentioned above, no 2 reviewers are EVER tasting the same bottle . . .

Just think about that - and think about how many times you have experienced the EXACT SAME notes in a wine twice from different bottles at different settings . . .

Cheers.

[Eric_Werner]

Without getting into the language of the reviews, I thought this was an interesting preface from Antonio:

“Quite frankly, it is not easy to write these reviews. I very much wanted to like Tynan’s wines. Perhaps I caught them on a bad day, but I found the wines dense and heavily extracted. Tynan told me he aims to make old school-leaning Napa Valley Cabernets, but I did not see much of that in the wines I tasted.“

He also did not review the 2016, which was the vintage reviewed for most every other winery.

[Robert_Pavlovich]

A couple of things to consider:

1. No 2 reviewers review the same bottle of wine and no 2 reviewers review wines in the same setting. When and where you taste DOES affect how a wine tastes - regardless of how one thinks differently.

2. There is no such thing as an ‘objective wine review’ - that’s an oxymoron. Reviewers score and rate wines based on their own preferences . . . period.

3. I have seen directly how reviewers are ‘affected’ by their relationships with specific winemakers / winery owners.

4. A reviewers words usually give the best idea of how he or she feels about the wine - and it should be clear based on these words why wines receive the scores that they do. If not, the reviewer is not doing a good job ‘conveying’ why they do what they do IMHO.

So much more to this, but that’s some food for thought right now.

Cheers.

There’s a lot that goes in to it I’m sure, but nothing comes close to being as important as #3 in this case.

[Gray_G]

the fun in all this is finding out what you like, please give me the 80 point Caymus LOL, I’m good, yet I love the 90 point Alban too, it’s all good

as GV has said, the press can make the market

all the rhetoric, and descriptors of flavor of wine is sometimes verbosity at it’s worst

I get Playboy for the pictures

love the one you’re with

16 is a great Napa year again! enjoy it whatever you do

cheers

[Cris_Whetstone]

88 and 91 scores are throwing people under the bus!?

It’s quite funny that the guy to be questioned is the one that disagrees with ‘make it rain’ point sluts like RMP and Dunnuck. I suppose for many, parties are more fun when you surround yourself with people who tell you what you want to hear versus those that will take things for what they are.

[Howard_Cooper]

How can two reviewers be so far off from one another?

Is this a rhetorical question?

I just don’t understand how two reviews can be so far off. I can understand a possible 5 -7 point difference from two professional reviewers. However, when one gives a perfect score and the other can’t even score it, something seems off IMO.

It happens all the time.

[Howard_Cooper]

2. There is no such thing as an ‘objective wine review’ - that’s an oxymoron. Reviewers score and rate wines based on their own preferences . . . period.

I completely agree. And, who would want to read such a thing. Anyone claiming that their review is “objective” has to have a pretty large ego.

[Gray_G]

Howard, totally agree

funny that we all like different things, all of us

IMHO wine overall is better than ever and will only continue that way, as there is more wine than ever out there, with more science, experimentation, competition, hard work and investment

is a 90 point today the same as a 90 point 10 years ago? hard to know, yet some professors hold the line on scoring LOL

hahaha “that’s what I do, I drink, and I know things”

have a great day

cheers

[Matt_Snow]

What does the note say? What are the words. It’s quite clear that those who decry the low scores are taking it a wee bit personally,

To answer the question, without reproducing the reviews, some of AG’s descriptors, which are relatively consistent from vintage to vintage, are super-concentrated, dense, virile, powerful, quite potent, oaky, jammy, brooding, massively/forbiddingly tannic, and one-dimensional. His impression of the wines is not difficult to discern, and while Galloni is no flavorphobe, it also is not surprising that some wines that came off to him as overly concentrated/powerful/jammy/tannic might appeal more to Parker or to Jeb, who are more avowed lovers of that style.

– Matt

[Ian_Dorin]

How can two reviewers be so far off from one another?

Is this a rhetorical question?

I just don’t understand how two reviews can be so far off. I can understand a possible 5 -7 point difference from two professional reviewers. However, when one gives a perfect score and the other can’t even score it, something seems off IMO.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The easiest case in point is Caymus 40th, which one reasonably quick look at Cellar Tracker will tell you that this is a HIGHLY divisive wine. Galloni was quite generous with his 80 point score, IMO, and I think Parker’s 96 was in line with Parker’s taste.

For me, the one example that I always use is 2009 Cos. Parker 100, and John Gilman 48 with the reminder that at 50 points you are classified as “wine.” Much to the chagrin of Mark Golodetz, I tend to agree with John Gilman

Galloni’s reviews of Tynan’s wines is just another reminder why I can continually trust him for rating Napa wines. He even prefaced the review with “I like other things he’s done, I like him, I just didn’t love these wines.” To your point, nothing is “off”.

[Steve_Crawford]

galloni hates fun wines. pretty simple.

88 and 91 scores are throwing people under the bus!?

It’s quite funny that the guy to be questioned is the one that disagrees with ‘make it rain’ point sluts like RMP and Dunnuck.

jeb is no point slut.

[lucaslabelle]

Interesting and informative review from CT on Tynan’s 2014

2014 Christopher Tynan Wines Cabernet Sauvignon Old Vines Meleagris Gallopavo (USA, California, Napa Valley) Click to view 10 label images
Tasted by msuwright on 12/18/2018 & rated 98 points: This dense and classy wine is stunning, even if it hasn’t quite entered its drinking window. The depth and complexity of fruit are enjoyable, but the enveloping aromas, earthy mouthfeel, and bright finish are even more impressive. This is remarkable wine that offers New World flavor with Old World balance.

Dark red in color and medium in body, the wine offers intriguing aromas of blackberry, mulberry, leather, and gravel. The wine offers luscious notes of blueberry and black cherry, but it’s balanced out with brambly notes of espresso, cocoa powder, baking spices, and crushed rocks. 14.2% alcohol. Drink in 2020 or later, when it may approach perfect. If you can’t wait that long (like me), decant at least an hour, but it’s surprisingly ready.

I decided to open this after reading Antonio Galloni’s middling reviews of the Tynan wines. (He claims to write more in disappointment than anger, but he rates the '11-'15 Cabernets as 88-91, with '14 being the highest.) Of course, I am an amateur, who couldn’t reliably rate 500+ wines in 24 days to save my life (can anyone?), but I followed this particular wine closely for several hours - and AG is really, really wrong here, in at least two ways:

(1) He questions Tynan’s assertion that he makes “old-school leaning” Cabernets. Maybe AG spends all his time with the ascetic folks at Togni, Dunn, and Mayacamas, but the Tynan wine is old school for wineries that started in, um, the last 15 years. It has darkness, herbs, gravel, and low alcohol. No, it won’t clog your arteries with tannins or require you to wait until 2040 to realize it was made from grapes and not pencil lead, but this is a more savory wine than a Mondavi or Peter Michael (not to mention a Carter or Realm). In my mind, this is a slightly riper version of a Dominus or Larkmead, neither of which belong to the “new school.”

(2) Galloni says the wines are “dense and heavily extracted.” Dense, yes, but the extraction point is completely wrong, as least as to the 2014. Having the fruit out front can be fun (e.g., Bevan, Morlet) or obnoxious (e.g., Anthem, GKG), but this is not such a wine. The fruit is ripe, but there are no plummy, sugary, or pruny notes (i.e., characteristics of extraction). Instead, the dark fruit balances with the - very real - tannins and acidity. If this is more extracted than a wine from Tony Biagi (to pick a recent AG favorite), I’ll eat my shorts.

I apologize for the lengthy point / counterpoint here, but the AG review strikes me as the definition of absurd - two substantive (but wrong) points, no specific descriptions, and vague condescension all around (really, questioning the specific number of days of skin contact?). To be clear, I’ve never met Chris Tynan, and I wouldn’t know him if I ran into him on the street. Everyone seems to agree that he is a very nice guy, but - even if he is a complete tool - this wine deserves better than a backhanded dismissal. As AG suggests, maybe he just caught it on a bad day. That said, if this is a 91 point wine, I have a bridge to sell you.

To sum up: the 2014 is a beautiful and delicious Cabernet that has impeccable class and balance. Drink it now or drink it later, but it is an amazing wine, period. (216 views) Report issue, Add favorite

[Jake_Rubash]

I whole heartedly agree with this CT review after having the ‘14 Tynan recently. It (along with the ‘16 Mac we had with it) are probably two of the best Cabernets I’ve had.

Interesting and informative review from CT on Tynan’s 2014

2014 Christopher Tynan Wines Cabernet Sauvignon Old Vines Meleagris Gallopavo (USA, California, Napa Valley) Click to view 10 label images
Tasted by msuwright on 12/18/2018 & rated 98 points: This dense and classy wine is stunning, even if it hasn’t quite entered its drinking window. The depth and complexity of fruit are enjoyable, but the enveloping aromas, earthy mouthfeel, and bright finish are even more impressive. This is remarkable wine that offers New World flavor with Old World balance.

Dark red in color and medium in body, the wine offers intriguing aromas of blackberry, mulberry, leather, and gravel. The wine offers luscious notes of blueberry and black cherry, but it’s balanced out with brambly notes of espresso, cocoa powder, baking spices, and crushed rocks. 14.2% alcohol. Drink in 2020 or later, when it may approach perfect. If you can’t wait that long (like me), decant at least an hour, but it’s surprisingly ready.

I decided to open this after reading Antonio Galloni’s middling reviews of the Tynan wines. (He claims to write more in disappointment than anger, but he rates the '11-'15 Cabernets as 88-91, with '14 being the highest.) Of course, I am an amateur, who couldn’t reliably rate 500+ wines in 24 days to save my life (can anyone?), but I followed this particular wine closely for several hours - and AG is really, really wrong here, in at least two ways:

(1) He questions Tynan’s assertion that he makes “old-school leaning” Cabernets. Maybe AG spends all his time with the ascetic folks at Togni, Dunn, and Mayacamas, but the Tynan wine is old school for wineries that started in, um, the last 15 years. It has darkness, herbs, gravel, and low alcohol. No, it won’t clog your arteries with tannins or require you to wait until 2040 to realize it was made from grapes and not pencil lead, but this is a more savory wine than a Mondavi or Peter Michael (not to mention a Carter or Realm). In my mind, this is a slightly riper version of a Dominus or Larkmead, neither of which belong to the “new school.”

(2) Galloni says the wines are “dense and heavily extracted.” Dense, yes, but the extraction point is completely wrong, as least as to the 2014. Having the fruit out front can be fun (e.g., Bevan, Morlet) or obnoxious (e.g., Anthem, GKG), but this is not such a wine. The fruit is ripe, but there are no plummy, sugary, or pruny notes (i.e., characteristics of extraction). Instead, the dark fruit balances with the - very real - tannins and acidity. If this is more extracted than a wine from Tony Biagi (to pick a recent AG favorite), I’ll eat my shorts.

I apologize for the lengthy point / counterpoint here, but the AG review strikes me as the definition of absurd - two substantive (but wrong) points, no specific descriptions, and vague condescension all around (really, questioning the specific number of days of skin contact?). To be clear, I’ve never met Chris Tynan, and I wouldn’t know him if I ran into him on the street. Everyone seems to agree that he is a very nice guy, but - even if he is a complete tool - this wine deserves better than a backhanded dismissal. As AG suggests, maybe he just caught it on a bad day. That said, if this is a 91 point wine, I have a bridge to sell you.

To sum up: the 2014 is a beautiful and delicious Cabernet that has impeccable class and balance. Drink it now or drink it later, but it is an amazing wine, period. (216 views) Report issue, Add favorite

[lucaslabelle]

Excited to try both!

Would you open a 14 now or wait [i have a 3 pack) <img src="/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif" width=“24” height=“18” alt="[cheers.gif]" title=“cheers”/>

I whole heartedly agree with this CT review after having the ‘14 Tynan recently. It (along with the ‘16 Mac we had with it) are probably two of the best Cabernets I’ve had.

Interesting and informative review from CT on Tynan’s 2014

2014 Christopher Tynan Wines Cabernet Sauvignon Old Vines Meleagris Gallopavo (USA, California, Napa Valley) Click to view 10 label images
Tasted by msuwright on 12/18/2018 & rated 98 points: This dense and classy wine is stunning, even if it hasn’t quite entered its drinking window. The depth and complexity of fruit are enjoyable, but the enveloping aromas, earthy mouthfeel, and bright finish are even more impressive. This is remarkable wine that offers New World flavor with Old World balance.

Dark red in color and medium in body, the wine offers intriguing aromas of blackberry, mulberry, leather, and gravel. The wine offers luscious notes of blueberry and black cherry, but it’s balanced out with brambly notes of espresso, cocoa powder, baking spices, and crushed rocks. 14.2% alcohol. Drink in 2020 or later, when it may approach perfect. If you can’t wait that long (like me), decant at least an hour, but it’s surprisingly ready.

I decided to open this after reading Antonio Galloni’s middling reviews of the Tynan wines. (He claims to write more in disappointment than anger, but he rates the '11-'15 Cabernets as 88-91, with '14 being the highest.) Of course, I am an amateur, who couldn’t reliably rate 500+ wines in 24 days to save my life (can anyone?), but I followed this particular wine closely for several hours - and AG is really, really wrong here, in at least two ways:

(1) He questions Tynan’s assertion that he makes “old-school leaning” Cabernets. Maybe AG spends all his time with the ascetic folks at Togni, Dunn, and Mayacamas, but the Tynan wine is old school for wineries that started in, um, the last 15 years. It has darkness, herbs, gravel, and low alcohol. No, it won’t clog your arteries with tannins or require you to wait until 2040 to realize it was made from grapes and not pencil lead, but this is a more savory wine than a Mondavi or Peter Michael (not to mention a Carter or Realm). In my mind, this is a slightly riper version of a Dominus or Larkmead, neither of which belong to the “new school.”

(2) Galloni says the wines are “dense and heavily extracted.” Dense, yes, but the extraction point is completely wrong, as least as to the 2014. Having the fruit out front can be fun (e.g., Bevan, Morlet) or obnoxious (e.g., Anthem, GKG), but this is not such a wine. The fruit is ripe, but there are no plummy, sugary, or pruny notes (i.e., characteristics of extraction). Instead, the dark fruit balances with the - very real - tannins and acidity. If this is more extracted than a wine from Tony Biagi (to pick a recent AG favorite), I’ll eat my shorts.

I apologize for the lengthy point / counterpoint here, but the AG review strikes me as the definition of absurd - two substantive (but wrong) points, no specific descriptions, and vague condescension all around (really, questioning the specific number of days of skin contact?). To be clear, I’ve never met Chris Tynan, and I wouldn’t know him if I ran into him on the street. Everyone seems to agree that he is a very nice guy, but - even if he is a complete tool - this wine deserves better than a backhanded dismissal. As AG suggests, maybe he just caught it on a bad day. That said, if this is a 91 point wine, I have a bridge to sell you.

To sum up: the 2014 is a beautiful and delicious Cabernet that has impeccable class and balance. Drink it now or drink it later, but it is an amazing wine, period. (216 views) Report issue, Add favorite

[Jake_Rubash]

You can for sure open one now with no regrets. We went PnP on the bottle we had and it was ready to go. I had reached out to Chris prior and he recommended PnP or a minimal decant and following the bottle for a couple hours. I think he nailed it.

Excited to try both!

Would you open a 14 now or wait [i have a 3 pack) <img src="/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif" width=“24” height=“18” alt="[cheers.gif]" title=“cheers”/>

I whole heartedly agree with this CT review after having the ‘14 Tynan recently. It (along with the ‘16 Mac we had with it) are probably two of the best Cabernets I’ve had.

Interesting and informative review from CT on Tynan’s 2014

\

[dougwilder]

I was a little surprised at the scores for Christopher Tynan wines given the high scores from others
Cabernet Sauvignon Meleagris Vineyard
2012 - 88
2013 - 90
2014 - 91
2015 - 88

I was very surprised as well. Actually a little disappointed in Antonio for his review of Tynan’s wines. I have had Chris’s wines on countless occasions and I would favorably compare them to the best wines coming out of Napa.

I honestly think that Antonio needs to explain the circumstances of his tasting or qualify his scores with more explanation. I can’t begin to count the wines that Antonio scored higher than Tynan that don’t even come close to approaching the quality of his wines.

To further highlight the disparity, Jeb scored Tynan’s cab in '13 and '14 at 100pts. To be frank I have always been a fan of Jeb’s palette when comes to New World wines. I feel like Antonio has more of an old world palette and that shows in his reviews and scores of CA wines.

Anyhow, that being said, if anyone ever feels like parting with their Tynan wines, you can always send me a PM as me and a number of my friends will gladly find a happy home to them in our cellars.

I’d be happy to taste and settle this once and for all.

[Mike_Maguire]

Why is this discrepancy important?

It doesn’t sound as if people are wondering who’s right in order to make a purchase decision. It sounds like people posting here have already made up their minds.

Is it concern for effect on secondary market prices? Ego? Lack of confidence without universal confirmation?

Differences of opinion are normal, especially in a subjective area like wine criticism. And they make life interesting.

Totally agree with your points David, most notably your second one.

[lucaslabelle]

Tynan 2014 rated 100 by JD!

Will have to try one soon and see whose palate I’m more aligned with. I have a feeling it’s gonna be Jeb on this wine.

[larry_schaffer]

Now for the real question - who gave out more 100’s - AG or JD?!?!?

[crickey]

Now for the real question - who gave out more 100’s - AG or JD?!?!?

Antonio or Lisa? The latter would be a lot. AG had “only” five.