I’ve read the many back and forths on here and elsewhere about this, but from my own tasting of the Grasso wines and visits to their cellar I just don’t get it. I haven’t tasted the 2011s you posted about a while back, but there’s just no hint of new oak whatsoever IMO in, say, the 2008 I had last night, or the 2013s or 2014 I recently had in Piedmont. I hate oak in barolo but love the Grasso Gavarini and Casa Mate.
I see no reason for them to lie about their oak usage program (while new oak in Barolo is out of fashion, they certainly aren’t hidding the barriques for the Runcot or the barbera, which I do not like), so if there’s any new oak aromas you detect, it’s probably either some minor oak from the scrapping of the barrels between uses (which, if it is there, seems to fade very quickly because I have never gotten it in the older vintages) or it’s simply something else that you’re confusing for new oak. A few weeks ago I had a traditional 2001 nebbiolo in a blind tasting I was convinced had tons of new oak…but it did not, it was simply me being wrong in blind tasting as we all often are. I suspect the same thing happened in your tasting.
New to the forum here and starting to get into the Piedmont myself. I visited the Piedmont this past spring and tasted quite a few of the new releases ('14) and found the quality to be all over the map. I’m super inexperienced right with anything other than the most recent releases and am trying to expand my knowledge and experiences with wines that are still available at retail. I recently popped open an ‘11 Brovia ca’ mia and really enjoyed it. It was showing well right now but definitely benefited from some air.
I see a lot of discussion on Grasso in this thread - anyone have experience with his line of wines from '11? I can get the Chiniera, but am a but concerned by John’s comment of new oak scents - this is something that I do not enjoy and try to avoid in Barolo.
2007 Ginestra Casa Mate is ready to go. I was surprised to see someone saying so a few months ago, but I pulled one from storage and totally agreed. I’m going to get another one out soon. Obviously there’s a long way to go before it becomes mature, but it’s wide open and delicious right now.
It was the '11 and '12, I believe. (Don’t have time to search for it.) Suffice it to say, they clearly showed a lot of new oak. This was a group tasting blindly.
The '13 when I tasted in a non-blind setting did not show the oak.
Runcot I don’t know because I don’t really pay attention. As for the other two wines, I think the '07s were excellent, and a big notch above the '09s for my taste (not that the '09s weren’t good). I haven’t had an '09 in a while, so I don’t know about current drinking.
I grabbed a few bottles of the 07 and 09 Rivetto for $35 a pop or something, we’ll see how they drink. As far as Grasso goes, my understanding was that they didn’t use any oak on the chinera and casa mate.
On average I’ve seen 2009’s as more approachable and showing less aging potential. However, all too often the wines also show some cooked fruit flavors and raisiny character instead of the fresher and more savory side of Nebbiolo as well.
2007’s probably aren’t going to be among the longest-lived vintages, since it was also a noticeably warm vintage, but it fared much better than 2009 and the wines show a bit more poise and freshness.
However, these are just general guidelines. Specifics always depend on the producer. I’ve always liked Rivetto style, but I wasn’t particularly thrilled of their 2009’s, even their top-tier Barolos.
Interesting. I had a bottle of this about 6 months ago, and I thought it was very tight and closed. I buried my bottles in the cellar. For recent accessible vintages, I think it is more dependent on producer and bottling. I’ve had some 09, 11, 12 and 14’s that I thought were accessible.
Lots of good comments above. It does vary depending on your personal preference. Here’s my take on recent vintages:
2014 - Needs time - mixed results - some great wines, some producers faced massive loss (e.g. 70% at Rinaldi) which appears to have affected quality. Some (e.g. Brovia) blended their Cru grapes into a single Normale (which may be excellent)
2013 - Needs significant time but great vintage
2012 - Very accessible.
2011 - Some report it as drinking well. Better examples need time (e.g. L. Oddero Vigna Rionda in fall - WAY TOO YOUNG). Entry level wines may be more accessible. Not as early drinking as 2012 imo
2010 - Big vintage, needs time
2009 - Ripe, fruit dominant, fast aging, accessible and drink up - some showing signs of early advancement, e.g. 2009 Bruno Giacosa Barolo le Rocche del Falletto
2008 - Classic vintage - Starting to drink really nicely. Opened a 2008 Azelia Margheria last week - just starting into drinking window
2007 - Ripe, forward, fast ageing drink up, some already past prime.
2006 - Good but tannic, needs time
2005 - Some past prime, some excellent but not one destined for long aging. Drink if you find a good one.
2004 - Great vintage - hitting prime drinking now. .e.g 2004 Paolo Scavino Bric del Fiasc (3 weeks ago) beautiful.
2003 - Super hot, all mine were gone long ago - avoid
2002 - Drink a Monfortino if you can - only good one
2001 - Great vintage - in prime window
2000 - good vintage, some past peak, some holding up well
Ross, can you please expand more on the comment, “some showing signs of early advancement, e.g. 2009 Bruno Giacosa Barolo le Rocche del Falletto” – I have two bottles. Was considering opening the first next week or delaying for many years. Giacosa is not my favorite Barolo producer, as I find a caramel note in the limited ones I have had… 2009 probably not up my wheel house either given the comments here on this board. Conversely, I am quite keen to try a 2009 Alessandria Monvigliero I picked up… perhaps the north may have benefited in such a warm year?
Hi Shaun, Giasoca is on my short list of favorite producers. There is some context in terms of preference that may help. I am not a fan of the dark, soy/balsamic tones that develop as a result of oxidation in red wines, especially in warm/hot vintages. This goes for Bordeaux as well as Burgundy. I first recall encountering this phenomenon with 2003 Bordeaux. The were drinking beautifully, then suddenly and prematurely appeared to fall off a cliff (Actually I had experienced it previously with Amarone but figured it was particular to Amarone); the colour was heading towards brown and those dark bitter flavours emerged. Time in the glass or decanter does not help, but only expedites the transition to dark, bitter, oxidized. I have never seen a wine come back from this. With further cellar time, they only head further down this path, at an accelerated pace. A very knowledgeable agent who deals heavily in CdP explained it at at 2003 horizontal tasting (2013) that the culprit is insufficient acidity in the warmer years. 2003 was an extreme example. All that said, there ARE excepetions. Everywhere I mention this issue, someone chimes in about an exception that showed well. I am speaking about the majority or at least significant portions of wines in given years. I had 2005 Barolo that were already heading south a few years back but also had GLORIOUS 2005 Oddero Vigna Rionda and Aldo Conterno GranBussia Riserva in 2017. A 2005 Cappellano Rupestris 2 weeks ago as ok but showing signs of these dark bitter tones and was not the most memorable bottle of Rupestris, nor would I seek it out again. In these years, the fruit tends to be forward and dominant. I have found they drink well and are enjoyable young but need watching between 7-10 years. I DO love older Barolo and opened 1961, 1964, 1970, 1971, 1982… in the last year with some great results (these were wines that had the balance to age effectively). Two bottles of 1964 Terre del Barolo Riserva Speciale had bright red colour still and presented Burgundian tones. One friend with an excellent palate said “Beautiful, is this a Burgundy” when served blind.
Re: 2009 Barolo Vintage: I tasted a lot of 2009 Barolo on release in Piedmont (2013 IRRC). At the same time we were being served a lot of 2008s. My takeaway was that 2008 was a Classic vintage, loved it, and it would take some time. 2009 impressed me as fruit dominant and lacking the acidity & structure to balance it. I made note to load up on 2008 but only get a few of my favorites for 2009. I bought 4 bottles of Scavino Cannubi 2009. First 2 were wonderful. Last couple (2018) showing early signs of advancement and while good, not as good as a year or two earlier…
Getting back to your 2009 Giacosa. I’ve had the Rocche previously, haven’t opened the Falletto yet. In June 2015 my notes on the Rocche were: “Tar at first, then strawberry, rose. Light brick colour. Signs of ethereal. Soft but grippy tannins. Beautiful right out of the cellar. Hard to wait for this to open up! BUY MORE!!!” In Sep 2018 I opened a 2009 Rocche along with a 2011 Cappellano Rupestris at a restaurant. Both got 1.75 hrs in decanter as we took a longer time than planned with the whites. While the Cappellano was singing all night long (Clouds parted, angelic choruses sang) the Rocche started showing soy, balsamic and only went further that way during dinner. My note was HOT VINTAGE - Drink sooner. So, my takeaway is to a) Drink sooner than later and b) Pop n pour or decant JUST as serving).
I think you paint with too broad a brush and must have a low tolerance for aged nebbiolo or a tolerance for strong tannin. Many of the vintages you say are “past peak” are drinking well now. Even 2003 had some nice wines at the top which are drinking nicely and no slouches. Even in an early maturing vintage, many can last 20 years no problem.
I paint with the brush that suites my own palate. Coincidentally, it correlates with multiple producers with whom I’ve discussed various vintages. As I mentioned above, someone ALWAYS chimes in with the’But there are some wines drinking really nicely and no slouches…’ Today, you’re that person, which is fine if that works for you. I prefaced my comments with the note that there WILL be exceptions. You are way off in thinking I have a low tolerance for aged Barolo. I have a low tolerance for bad Barolo or Barolo that is ageing poorly. There is a BIG difference. The 1964s I opened in the summer were among the best wines of the year. Also, read what I wrote rather than scanning and filling in the blanks for yourself. I didn’t say the Vintage were universally past peak but rather sad some (examples/wines) are already past peak. As suggested in my preface, SOME may also be drinking well (hence my comment about the 2005), so I think an more apt decription of the reply would be nuanced rather than ‘too broad’.
