A reminder why scores are always suspect, taste for yourself

WINE TALK
41

Rick, I’ve already formed my own thoughts and laid them out in this thread; Read my previous posts, and you will see that this is true. I will not repeat myself yet again, so that you can ignore me yet again. Again, “right and wrong” were your words, not mine. Read my previous posts on this point. Your inability to answer a simple question is quite astonishing, Rick. I absolutely give up on the conversation I was hoping you and I could have in this thread. Talking “with” you is like talking with a brick wall. [dash1.gif] [suicide.gif]

42

like when some people taste Corked, Wetrock tastes delicious. neener

43

Sigh. Not only are you arrogant, you seem to not have even the most basic ability to read and understand simple sentences or logic. Welcome to the very short list of people I ignore here.

44

Alan, in the early days, you were a smart voice and remain one today around here. You called out this premise of having your own palate, and like I have said on my occasions, that one’s own palate matters more than a critic’s score. Graf, you’ve been around here for just as long, and I too have appreciated your perspectives for so many years.

Whatever happened to Rick Gregory?

45

Apparently you’re lazy, have a narrow agenda, and offer little in the way of content and substance?

46

To throw a wrench in the whole thread-direction here (perhaps for the better), I’m also increasingly of the mind that scores by and large should be done blind.

47

What’s the statute of limitations on grammatical errors?

48

Frank has been going back in time!

49

What’s the statute of limitations on digging up old threads, 10 years?

50

Still spouting his perspective on Twitter @rickg

51

There isn’t won!! [wink.gif]

52

Funny thing — despite the back and forth in this thread, I actually grew to like Rick quite a lot. I wish he was still posting here.

53

I did taste blind for some time with a group called Grand Jury Europeen with several professional critics and some experienced amateurs and winemakers. These tastings were the most professional organized I ever experienced. Thanks to Francois Mauss who was president and I am still thankful being invited several times. I can tell you that the scores were pretty similar most of the time. When points were in a range from 85 to 95 the wine in question was obviously controversial. But that was the exception, certainly not the rule.

I think while wine tasting is actually based on individual taste quality is something most experienced wine drinkers or pros do agree. But the question if the most expensive wines or the most heralded and sought after are always the superior ones is a totally different question. I experienced that this is quite often not the case. At least if you taste blind. For instance some First Growth Bordeaux were at the top of my list while others didn’t show well. I say this because the normal excuse was that First Growth are in need of extended cellaring per se. But that argument wasn’t logic because this doesn’t explain why Lafite was in the top ten and Mouton not or vis a versa.

Ergo: A reliable critic is able to see if a wine is top, average or poor. But he or she can’t help if you have dislikes for certain things. A critic should be open minded and liberal when it comes to tannin, acid, oak and ripeness. And he or she should only be alarmed if one of this elements dominates all the others. If the critic is right and objective in his description and tell you what kind and style this wine is the job is well done.

Last but not least: A score difference of 2 points is senseless because no critic in the world is able to score a wine 1 point exactly on 3 different occasions. 85+/- is good, 90+/- is very good, 95+/- is superior and 100 is something very rare and reserved for only the very best bottles, the very best storing and the very best mood of the taster.

And btw: a 90 point wine can be the best bottle because you are in fine company, the weather is beautiful, you love the place and people or a person next to you. But that is very different to a professional tasting when you should be absolutely by your own, sober, very focused, objective and healthy. And this is really demanding. After tasting 30 wines in the morning and 30 wines in the afternoon and describing them the best way possible I was tired and felt best going early to bed and hearing some relaxing music by headphones. I admire if somebody is actually able to do this 15 days in a row with some consistency… I did it for 3 or 4 days in a row and got seriously tired. Its hard work.

54

Nice post Jürgen. Blind tasting is hard. I may be in the minority but if more than a few bottles are involved it goes from being fun to a chore. Fine if the goal is to learn about wines or make buying decisions. Not so fine if the goal is fun and enjoyment.

55

At least he’s not spouting my perspective on Twitter :slight_smile:

56

I love these archaeological threads. When you dig deep enough, you find something interesting.

I think what should be a major focus is the relationship of high scores and the critic’s individual brand. We have joked in the past about Suckling’s 100 point average score, or Perotti Brown’s 34 x 100 point scores in Napa. I don’t buy inflation or the wines are that much better now than before. But I am finding these scores are seriously undermining the brand of the individual critic, as well as the industry as a whole that now uses the best score they can find to sell product. The days are almost gone where a merchant gets to know his customer and recommends based on what they like rather than a critic’s score.

57

Unfortunately this is true. Very often Sucklings scores are mentioned in the advertisings here in Germany most because his are almost ever the highest on any wine. Its a win-win situation. The critic gets even more famous and the merchant can sell the wines quicker and to a better price. It takes some time until customers get sceptic and tired of these score inflations. And if an experienced taster doesn’t care for the hyperbole scores any more a younger and less experienced person joins the wine loving community.

It is like fighting agains windmills. The marketing machinery is too successful.