A question about Barolo

[Tim_Thomas]

@Bill Klapp

Is this the death knell of the Audouze method? To me, the key point is that old Nebbiolo can indeed throw off some bitter and nasty dregs, and like others above, my experience has been that the sooner you separate the wine from the dregs after oxygen hits the wine, the fresher and better the wine is likely to be.

Bill and others,
I acquired a few bottles of older wines (58, 64, 71) on a recent trip to CA. Checked them as baggage on the way home so no telling how many times they were bounced around. How long should they stand up in the cellar to let the fine sediment settle as much as possible? Days, weeks, months? And what about bottles stored sideways in my cellar for many years. Do you try to carefully keep them on their side when opening and decanting or should you stand them up for some period of time.

Cheers
Tim

[John_Gilman]

Bill and others,
I acquired a few bottles of older wines (58, 64, 71) on a recent trip to CA. Checked them as baggage on the way home so no telling how many times they were bounced around. How long should they stand up in the cellar to let the fine sediment settle as much as possible? Days, weeks, months? And what about bottles stored sideways in my cellar for many years. Do you try to carefully keep them on their side when opening and decanting or should you stand them up for some period of time.

Cheers
Tim[/quote]

Hi Tim,

The bottles that you picked up in California I would wait at least six months to let them clear again after bouncing around. For older nebbiolos that I buy in Europe, my rule of thumb is one year after trans-Atlantic crossing to let them re-harmonize after the trauma of travel. Air freighted bottles seem to take less time, but as these are hard items to cross paths with, it seems to me that you are better off erring on the side of caution, rather than popping them too soon when there is still find sediment in suspension. With bottles that are on their sides, I usually prefer to leave them that way, open them on their sides and decant them off of the sediment that way. I find that the sediment tends to remain quite static with this method and I tend to get a cleaner pour. If I was goiing to stand up a '64 Barolo, it would be for a minimum of a month to really let it settle properly, but the opening the bottle on its side removes the need for such long-term planning!

All the Best,

John

[Ken_V]

I would wait at least a month after travel, preferably two.

I would give a bottle in your cellar at least a week to settle standing up, again preferably two. If you don’t have that time, then get a wine basket that keeps it nearly lying down and decant gently as close to the cellar as possible.

Also, I don’t recommend Adouzing a bottle lying down.

[Tim_Thomas]

John and Ken,

Thanks for the good info.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

@Gregory Dal Piaz

This is what I do. Decant into a clean decanter, rinse the bottle then back into the original bottle.

Jamie Wolfe recommended this several years ago and I’ve had nothing but success. The tricky part is dealing with those ultra fine suspended micro-sediments. Standing a bottle up and waiting 1 month to 1 year sounds a little nuts. How long do you typically wait before decanting?

RT

[Bill_Boykin]

@Richard T r i m p i

@Gregory Dal Piaz

This is what I do. Decant into a clean decanter, rinse the bottle then back into the original bottle.

Standing a bottle up and waiting 1 month to 1 year sounds a little nuts. How long do you typically wait before decanting?

RT

It may sound nuts,but standing up old Nebbioli for at least 3 weeks is not crazy,rather prudent.
The longer the better,and handling the bottles with care is also a necessity or those little micro particles of which you spoke can really spoil an excellent wine.
Been there.
Done that…

[Nick_Gangas]

So I have two bottles of 78 Giacosa CR on the west coast now. Am I right saying John would not open this in late November but maybe Ken would ?

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Bill Boykin

@Richard T r i m p i

@Gregory Dal Piaz

This is what I do. Decant into a clean decanter, rinse the bottle then back into the original bottle.

Standing a bottle up and waiting 1 month to 1 year sounds a little nuts. How long do you typically wait before decanting?

RT

It may sound nuts,but standing up old Nebbioli for at least 3 weeks is not crazy,rather prudent.
The longer the better,and handling the bottles with care is also a necessity or those little micro particles of which you spoke can really spoil an excellent wine.
Been there.
Done that…

Agreed. You cannot fault John Gilman’s decision to wait longer (assuming that the wine is not on the edge of its downward spiral), but on the other hand, there is no evidence to suggest that a year wait is necessary. I am comfortable that it is not. The standing up is far more important. It is all about what it takes for the particles to settle out, and that is never the same bottle to bottle or wine to wine…

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

FWIW. this thread motivated me to open and decant (in the suggested method here: open, clean by decanting and then pouring back into cleaned, orginal bottle, left uncorked), a 1978 Prunotto Barolo Riserva (purchased in 1986). It was sublime: tons of concentrated fruit, port and amarone like aromas and rasiny with some barnyard hints on the long finish. Frankly, as good of a Barolo as we’ve ever had. (I’m a big believer in focusing on one “special” wine at a time, rather than a tasting, where wines “lose”.) A wow experience for me, though less so for my wife, who thought it was too port like. Worth the 27 year cellaring in our places! Though I am a skeptic that “Audouzing” does anything at all…maybe the “double” decanting described here does provide a benefit…the wine showed great, so…who knows. Will check back on the 1/3 remaining that we pumped up.

Re: letting older red wines settle: you cannot fault any decision to let them settle for a long time, IMO…Burgundies, too, need the rest after travel.

[Peter_Kleban]

Questions from a newbie (who has two '64 Nebbs waiting to be consumed). Sorry if this is elementary:

When you decant, how do you know when to stop pouring–do you watch what comes out and stop when it gets cloudy?

Do you decant through a filter (I guess this might remove some of the sediment, but on the other hand it aerates more)?

Typically, how much is left in the bottle after a decant (assuming that the bottle has b been stored say upright for a few weeks as recommended)?

What do you do with what’s left at the bottom of the bottle? Just discard?

[Bill_Boykin]

Which 64s,Peter?

Some love to chew the sediment…

[Peter_Kleban]

Ah, the important thing:

Vallana Spanna Castello di Montalbano 1964
Francesco Rinaldi Barolo-Alba 1964

[john_stimson]

@Peter Kleban

Questions from a newbie (who has two '64 Nebbs waiting to be consumed). Sorry if this is elementary:

When you decant, how do you know when to stop pouring–do you watch what comes out and stop when it gets cloudy?

Do you decant through a filter (I guess this might remove some of the sediment, but on the other hand it aerates more)?

Typically, how much is left in the bottle after a decant (assuming that the bottle has b been stored say upright for a few weeks as recommended)?

What do you do with what’s left at the bottom of the bottle? Just discard?

Peter–standard decanting technique. Put a bright light under the neck of the bottle (I use a flashlight) and slowly pour, looking down through the neck of the bottle toward the light. When you start to see solid material–whether fine or big and chunky–coming out, stop. You might have a tablespoon or 2 left, or you might have 1/3 of a glass.

I dump the remainder in a tasting glass to sample now and then when the wine is airing.

[john_stimson]

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

FWIW. this thread motivated me to open and decant (in the suggested method here: open, clean by decanting and then pouring back into cleaned, orginal bottle, left uncorked), a 1978 Prunotto Barolo Riserva (purchased in 1986). It was sublime: tons of concentrated fruit, port and amarone like aromas and rasiny with some barnyard hints on the long finish. Frankly, as good of a Barolo as we’ve ever had. (I’m a big believer in focusing on one “special” wine at a time, rather than a tasting, where wines “lose”.) A wow experience for me, though less so for my wife, who thought it was too port like. Worth the 27 year cellaring in our places! Though I am a skeptic that “Audouzing” does anything at all…maybe the “double” decanting described here does provide a benefit…the wine showed great, so…who knows. Will check back on the 1/3 remaining that we pumped up.

Stuart–I know this runs against the standard dogma of never decanting Burgundy, but have you ever tried this with a burg? It’s become somewhat of a habit for me, actually whites more so than reds.

[Bill_Boykin]

@john stimson

@Peter Kleban

Questions from a newbie (who has two '64 Nebbs waiting to be consumed). Sorry if this is elementary:

When you decant, how do you know when to stop pouring–do you watch what comes out and stop when it gets cloudy?

Do you decant through a filter (I guess this might remove some of the sediment, but on the other hand it aerates more)?

Typically, how much is left in the bottle after a decant (assuming that the bottle has b been stored say upright for a few weeks as recommended)?

What do you do with what’s left at the bottom of the bottle? Just discard?

Peter–standard decanting technique. Put a bright light under the neck of the bottle (I use a flashlight) and slowly pour, looking down through the neck of the bottle toward the light. When you start to see solid material–whether fine or big and chunky–coming out, stop. You might have a tablespoon or 2 left, or you might have 1/3 of a glass.

I dump the remainder in a tasting glass to sample now and then when the wine is airing.

Peter,I would think that this seems reasonable.As to decanting time before drinking,I would only go for an hour or so with these specific wines,if you’re going to slow O double decant in the bottle,I would give them 3 hours…

[Peter_Kleban]

thanks! Actually, I opened a bottle of

Spanna
Tenuta Castello San Lorenzo 1964
A. Vallana & F.
“il vino di alti tempi”

this summer. It didn’t leave it motionless beforehand. The cork was fine on top, but broke off while opening. I ended up pouring the wine (please don’t shudder!) through a coffee filter to get rid of the broken off bits of cork. It was in a decanter for about 4 hours, but I didn’t remove sediment, IIRC there wasn’t much anyway. This didn’t seem to be enough, it was only starting to come around after that, as far as I could tell. The wine was really nice, but not stellar to my tastes. Perhaps it would have been better had I treated it as recommended here!

[Nick_Gangas]

Ok tonights the night. DD’d the bottle. About 4 ounces left with a fine sediment. Any harm in filtering this back into the original bottle ?

[Ken_V]

@Nick Gangas

Ok tonights the night. DD’d the bottle. About 4 ounces left with a fine sediment. Any harm in filtering this back into the original bottle ?

I would filter it separately into a glass, then taste it.

[Nick_Gangas]

I think that’s the plan. I already did give it a little sip because the bottle had a little corkiness to it. Tasted pretty good but then I’m no stranger to a little sediment.

[John_Morris]

@john stimson

@Peter Kleban

Questions from a newbie (who has two '64 Nebbs waiting to be consumed). Sorry if this is elementary:

When you decant, how do you know when to stop pouring–do you watch what comes out and stop when it gets cloudy?

Do you decant through a filter (I guess this might remove some of the sediment, but on the other hand it aerates more)?

Typically, how much is left in the bottle after a decant (assuming that the bottle has b been stored say upright for a few weeks as recommended)?

What do you do with what’s left at the bottom of the bottle? Just discard?

Peter–standard decanting technique. Put a bright light under the neck of the bottle (I use a flashlight) and slowly pour, looking down through the neck of the bottle toward the light. When you start to see solid material–whether fine or big and chunky–coming out, stop. You might have a tablespoon or 2 left, or you might have 1/3 of a glass.

I dump the remainder in a tasting glass to sample now and then when the wine is airing.

.

+1

With old Bordeaux and old Northern Rhones, I sometimes find a glass of the dregs can be marvelous if I am careful to sip the wine without taking in the sediment. Nebbiolo is an entirely different story and you need to be much more careful not to spoil a great bottle by allowing any sediment into the glass.