A no corkage rant

[Philip_N_Jones]

A reverse sear is when you put it in reverse, tromp on the gas, and the rear tires start to smoke.
Phil Jones

[JulianD]

Edit- mixed it up, it’s Slow cook (sous vide/oven) and then sear at end

[ERPark]

For those who haven’t figured out why some chain locations don’t allow corkage when other locations do, it’s typically a jurisdiction issue whether the state or local governing entity allows restos to offer corkage or not.

While I agree that cooking and drinking at home is more economical, there is something to be said about meeting at a Reston and having someone else handle the cooking, cleaning and other tasks associated with a decadent meal. A number of WBers got together at 5A5 Steakhouse in San Francisco a couple weeks ago, as another WBer from the Eastern time zone was in town for a work conference. As we’re blessed to be in a state where corkage is allowed, and I know the owners of 5A5, we had quite a bacchanalian night of opening and sharing some damn fine bottles:

2004 Jacquesson
1997 Salon
2008 Roulot Les Luchets
2001 DRC Romanee St Vivant
2002 Lignier-Michelot Clos de la Roche
1982 Ch Cheval Blanc
1985 Ch Cheval Blanc
1990 Ch Montrose
2004 Harlan Estate
1997 Ch d’Yquem
2006 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr

[Chris_Seiber]

@Barry Paul Price

@lleichtman

Since I do reverse sear of great meat at home and we don’t have BYO here, I never go to a steak place unless we are traveling and even then don’t go to ones that don’t allow BYO anyway.

What’s a reverse sear? I am genuinely excited to find out! lol.

Cook at very low temperature (sous vide, or in a 160-200 degree oven) to get a uniform doneness that you want for the interior, then finish with a sear on the outsides in a very hot pan or grill.

As compared to the traditional “sear first then finish at low heat” method, the reverse sear (a) is much more forgiving and easier to avoid overlooking or undercooking, and (b) produces much more uniform interior doneness, rather than the gradation from sear to gray to pink to red.

[Chris_Seiber]

Tri tip and duck breast I cooked reverse sear, as examples.

[Betty_C]

@Chris Seiber

@Barry Paul Price

What’s a reverse sear? I am genuinely excited to find out! lol.

Cook at very low temperature (sous vide, or in a 160-200 degree oven) to get a uniform doneness that you want for the interior, then finish with a sear on the outsides in a very hot pan or grill.

As compared to the traditional “sear first then finish at low heat” method, the reverse sear (a) is much more forgiving and easier to avoid overlooking or undercooking, and (b) produces much more uniform interior doneness, rather than the gradation from sear to gray to pink to red.

This. Also works very well for rack of lamb and pork loin.

[Kirk.Grant]

@Joe B

So yesterday was my fiancé birthday, and our anniversary of being engaged. She had never been to Mortons Steakhouse and wanted to go. I certainly like a Mortons steak dinner so… I set up the reservation, then called and asked about the corkage policy. Of course, no BYO allowed. Well, we were still going to go. The lineup of wines that I was willing to pay double to triple for was relatively small. I settled for the 2013 Stags Leap Wine Kellers hands of time. Now, it wasn’t a bad wine but I paid $90 for the bottle which is about triple the shelf price. The meal was really great but I kept thinking it could have been a much better meal If I had brought my own wine. I wanted to bring a Realm Dr Crane 2012 or 2013

Anybody else have this sort of let-down? Or just go with it?

Honestly…it’s why my significant other often complains that we almost always take our food to go. I rarely eat out…I just don’t want what they have to offer when it comes to BTG or Bottle offerings. Most are sub-par selections, at a price well beyond my comfort zone; when I know what I could be drinking at home. I cook steaks at home; I do not go out for steak…there’s no steak house that’s going to do a better job (here in Maine, at least where I live) AND has a decent selection of wines. When I find a restaurant that makes food I like it’s far easier to bring it home and open the wine I want then to stay in a restaurant with 7oz. water goblets they call wine glasses and pay 3x the price for wine and 10x the price for food. So in my mind…it’s really the servers that are missing out in this area.

[Jay_Miller]

@Dan Kravitz

OK, I know of a very few steak houses that do not match the platitudinous assumptions listed below, but in my experience, most suffer severely from the following intolerable negatives:
The 1950’s WASP men’s club atmosphere.
The tired inevitable wood and leather surroundings.
The arrogance.
The pomposity.
The wine lists that offer virtually nothing but multinational drinks companies most soulless, luxurious industrial bottlings and/or rare trophies.
The hideously inflated prices, for both wine and food.
The assumption that you are so incredibly privileged to be permitted to drop a workingman’s week’s salary for a mediocre dinner,
a lot more if you are in one of those with the trophy lists and you buy yourself a trophy.

I truly prize the exceptions. I personally find Bern’s steak mediocre, but never get within a 100 miles of Tampa without stopping for the wine.

Any and everybody please chime in with the names of steak houses you know that do not suffer from the above-mentioned maladies. I wind up all over the country on business, usually without any of my companions who are not steak-eaters, so any recommendations are welcome.
Independents very strongly preferred!

Dan Kravitz

Here in Jersey City I love Liberty Prime’s Porterhouse for two ($55pp). They source their meat at deBragga and because they supply so much to restaurants the Porterhouse is rarely available on their retail website. Plus, the cost is only about $10pp more (before tax and tip). For that money I’m happy to have them do all the cooking and cleaning up. We order it rare and it comes out perfectly cooked.

Service and atmosphere are comfortable and professional. Sides are good. Nothing is perfect - wine list is a joke and corkage is $30.

[Jay_Miller]

@JulianD

Sear first, then oven/sous vide/etc (usually re-sear at end to crisp up)

As Chris says, the exact opposite of this. Low oven first, then sear (after drying of course).

[Paul_McCourt]

@Chris Seiber

Tri tip and duck breast I cooked reverse sear, as examples.

What’s that red, green and yellow crap doing on the meat plate??

[Bruce_Leiser_owitz]

@ERPark

For those who haven’t figured out why some chain locations don’t allow corkage when other locations do, it’s typically a jurisdiction issue whether the state or local governing entity allows restos to offer corkage or not.

While I agree that cooking and drinking at home is more economical, there is something to be said about meeting at a Reston and having someone else handle the cooking, cleaning and other tasks associated with a decadent meal. A number of WBers got together at 5A5 Steakhouse in San Francisco a couple weeks ago, as another WBer from the Eastern time zone was in town for a work conference. As we’re blessed to be in a state where corkage is allowed, and I know the owners of 5A5, we had quite a bacchanalian night of opening and sharing some damn fine bottles

There’s no question but that some jurisdiction don’t allow BYOB/corkage, but even in places where the law allows it restaurants vary widely in whether they allow it, what they charge for corkage, whether they put an upper limit on the number of bottles you can open, etc.

I certainly understand your point about wanting to go to a restaurant and having someone else handle all the work of prepping, cooking, cleaning, etc. Just speaking for myself, though, I generally don’t select a steakhouse-type place for offline dinners since it’s fairly easy for me to cook the steak myself. If I want to go out for a nice meal and bring wine, I’m more likely to select a place that has food I’m less able/inclined to make myself at home.

When it comes to the typical steakhouse, the typical diner ISN’T bringing their own wine; they order their beverage from the restaurant. For a typical steakhouse, allowing (or encouraging) BYOB isn’t all that important to their overall revenue. Thus, I’m not surprised when I see a typical steakhouse either not allow BYOB or else charge $$$ corkage. Again, it just makes it easier to pass on going out to dinner there (unless they have a great wine list that is well-priced, which is usually the exception to the rule at a typical steakhouse).

Having said all that, I’ve had a wine dinner in Las Vegas before at steakhouse Echo & Rig. They were quite BYOB-friendly, and they also had very good stemware. I would go back there again without hesitation.

Bruce

[jcoley3]

To the original question, I would have just gone with it. Considering it’s the lady’s birthday, and an anniversary (congratulations!) and it’s a place she’s always wanted to check out, losing sleep for overpaying for one bottle of wine in a year just doesn’t seem worth it to me.

[BPP]

@Chris Seiber

Tri tip and duck breast I cooked reverse sear, as examples.

Thank you for volunteering to cater the next offline.

[lleichtman]

@Mont Stern

@Neal.Mollen

@Glenn L e v i n e

No corkage + rough pricing = my exit from the joint.

Morton’s, Ruth’s Chris - there has to be a better steak somewhere close.

At home. I almost never order steak in restaurants because I can buy beef as good as theirs and grill it at home. When I eat out, I like the value added of a chef, and I don’t really get that with a grilled cowboy ribeye.

+1
When people ask me my favorite steakhouse, I tell them it is the “Backyard Chop House”
Hard to beat the combination of a Flannery steak and a great bottle of wine from my cellar.

+1. It’s hard to beat a Flannery rib eye made with a reverse sear and a good bottle of my own or friend’s wine. We have only one steakhouse here in Santa Fe and local not national chain so is using local beef but terrible wine list and no BYO.

[todd_waldmann]

@lleichtman

+1. It’s hard to beat a Flannery rib eye made with a reverse sear and a good bottle of my own or friend’s wine. We have only one steakhouse here in Santa Fe and local not national chain so is using local beef but terrible wine list and no BYO.

You should go to the local steakhouse for dinner, then come share with all of us how annoyed you were that you couldn’t BYO!

[Eric_Egan]

@Chris Seiber

@Barry Paul Price

@lleichtman

Since I do reverse sear of great meat at home and we don’t have BYO here, I never go to a steak place unless we are traveling and even then don’t go to ones that don’t allow BYO anyway.

What’s a reverse sear? I am genuinely excited to find out! lol.

Cook at very low temperature (sous vide, or in a 160-200 degree oven) to get a uniform doneness that you want for the interior, then finish with a sear on the outsides in a very hot pan or grill.

As compared to the traditional “sear first then finish at low heat” method, the reverse sear (a) is much more forgiving and easier to avoid overlooking or undercooking, and (b) produces much more uniform interior doneness, rather than the gradation from sear to gray to pink to red.

+1, but sous vide at 140 (for a long time) then sear on both sides simultaneously (with steak weight) for 15-20 seconds. I find that using a (light) steak weight (heated in a very hot oven) for heat rather than just pressure means you loose less juice. Just personal preference thought - I wouldn’t dream of telling someone how to cook their own steak

Hardly ever order steak out, unless I happen to really feel like it. Rarely go to places without a good value wine list (that is usually how I choose where to go…) but if I do, and I don’t bring my own bottle, I order beer, even with steak. Paying inflated markups for mediocre wine is more painful than root canal fillings.

[David_Cohen]

PEOPLE SKILLS PEOPLE!!!

I have gotten around so many corkage fees and corkage laws.
For example in certain parts of Maryland you by law can not byo if they have a license to serve. So I discussed with manager a week before on the phone my intentions and he laughed but was fine with it. I brought a balloon that said congrats, a nice bottle of wine from my cellar gift wrapped and presented my present to the manager.
The manager was kind enough to share his present of wine with me. Oddly enough he only took a small taste from his gift bottle leaving the rest for us to enjoy. It was so sweet of him I had to leave a very nice tip for the waitstaff. The waitstaff, the manager and my dinner party were all very happy.
Another example is the one for one concept. For every bottle I bring I buy a bottle from your list. I will pay the markup on bubbly or a white and bring my own reds with me. Restaurant is happy to pick up wine business and i happy for not having to shell out 4 figures for a well aged french wine/cali cab/etc.
Another example is no harm no foul- I bring a box of glasses, a corkscrew and the bottle. I open my bottle, pour it in my glasses and leave with my dirty glasses. Restaurant has no expenses in regards to my byo bottle. They are more apt to waive or reduce fees when I present this option.
Last example. Often the person who answers the phone is the daughter/niece/neighbor of the manager/chef/owner who does not even know what corkage is. I make my reservation with them and then ask to speak to manager. I explain to manager my intentions in regards to bringing wine and I more than likely come to an understanding/arrangement. When I ask the initial person who answers the phone I often get a no, or a dollar amount but no ability to discuss/negotiate terms.
Two of my greater byo accomplishments was corkage waived at french laundry and being allowed to byo at Luger’s steak house (strict policy of no byo)

[John_Danza]

@Neal.Mollen

@Glenn L e v i n e

No corkage + rough pricing = my exit from the joint.

Morton’s, Ruth’s Chris - there has to be a better steak somewhere close.

At home. I almost never order steak in restaurants because I can buy beef as good as theirs and grill it at home. When I eat out, I like the value added of a chef, and I don’t really get that with a grilled cowboy ribeye.

Wow Neal, I could have typed that message. I’m with you 100%.

I went to a steak place recently because friends wanted to go. It was the first time I had been to one in years, and it reminded me why I don’t go. Everything that makes a steak place a “steak place” can easily be done at home at half-to-a-third the price with identical quality. On top of it, I get to drink much better wine for far less money.

[Mel_Knox]

I am boycotting New Mexico because of its no corkage policy.

I am always prepared to pay a generous corkage and tip well.

[David_Cohen]

@John Danza

@Neal.Mollen

@Glenn L e v i n e

No corkage + rough pricing = my exit from the joint.

Morton’s, Ruth’s Chris - there has to be a better steak somewhere close.

At home. I almost never order steak in restaurants because I can buy beef as good as theirs and grill it at home. When I eat out, I like the value added of a chef, and I don’t really get that with a grilled cowboy ribeye.

Wow Neal, I could have typed that message. I’m with you 100%.

I went to a steak place recently because friends wanted to go. It was the first time I had been to one in years, and it reminded me why I don’t go. Everything that makes a steak place a “steak place” can easily be done at home at half-to-a-third the price with identical quality. On top of it, I get to drink much better wine for far less money.

I will only order dry aged (ideally a 60 day dry aged cowboy or tomahawk ribeye) when going out, otherwise I avoid the steak. Between access to cellar/ bbq skills and quality of meats I have access to it makes zero sense for us to order regular steak when out and about.