Hmmmm. Interesting. I find Guiberteau to generally be bigger than Boudignon. FWIW, I love them both.
I have to admit: I’ve been extremely surprised to see all the positive comments about the Baudry Blanc — not because I’ve had one and disagree, but rather because I just wouldn’t have expected it — how often do we see Chinon blanc discussed or mentioned on this board?
I’ll have to give a white Baudry a chance next time it’s convenient.
Definitely try the Croix Boissee Blanc specifically.
The Baudry Chinon Blanc is solid, but the CB Blanc was a significant step up in my opinion.
Gorgeous stuff. And from a not-so-great vintage. So fresh. So transparent. Waves of fresh and wild red fruits. Quite crispy. Throw some greens in as well. And blood red citrus.
This stuff has become rather unicorn-y! I’m trying to find some recent vintages and am striking out.
@Julian_Marshall hook us up!
Guessing game?
Oopsy! 2013.
Since the NY berserkers introduced me to this I’ve been trying too, in Europe, and it’s impossible.
We lost our stateside source.
Sounds excellent! Another good 2013!
Sadly for me, you have always had the best sources. In Europe, it’s impossible to find except very occasionally at auction and then at rather high prices. The last time I found any at retail was here: https://www.parcellaire.com/
I found 2x ‘10. Haven’t seen any since.
Which vintage? Wondering if it’s one of the two vintages I tried, both of which tasted like I was eating a 2" x 4".
I want to try this wine again, as my two experiences with it are shockingly different than seemingly everyone else’s (assuming I can ever find it and I’m willing to pay whatever its current going rate is). Makes me wonder if it really was the wine, or if it was me … ?
ETA: nevermind. I see you let us know it was the 2013. and that is one of the vintages I tried!
.
2013 Château de la Bonneliere Touraine Ante Phylloxera Clos de Maulevrier - France, Loire Valley, Touraine (1/7/2019)
– decanted about 1.25 hours before initial taste –
– tasted non-blind over 3 hours on Day 1; revisited on Day 2 –
NOSE: Day 1: red-fruited with a hint of chocolate coffee; light pyrazine note; hint of red licorice; moderately expressive; beguiling, yet simultaneously reserved; complex; medium-strength oak note. Day 2: starting to oxidize a touch; not as oaky as Day 1.
BODY: violet-garnet color of medium depth; clear; medium-light to medium bodied.
TASTE: Day 1: woodsy; red-fruited; some noticeable oak and oaky tannins; medium+ acidity; frankincense; alc. not noticeable; oak became very strong about 2.50 – 3.0 hours after uncorking. Day 2: still tastes oaky, but not as bad as Day 1; red-fruited and stony, but this comes across as a thin(er) wine that was beaten with an oaken club; some nice garrigué on the finish. Maybe this wine soaks up the oak and has fruit left-over when it’s all said and done, but I’m not optimistic. I believe I would score this wine around 90 or 91 but for the terribly strong oak aspect. The oak on this is terribly unfortunate. Best to Hold for now.
50, 5, 10, 12, 6 = 83 (83 pts.)
There’s allegedy one in NYC. $120
Ha ha I still crack up over that thread. Amazing that you and I could have such polar opposite views on one wine, when generally, our views are very similar.
Seriously. Among my most vexing and perplexing wine enthusiast experiences to date!
We don’t all have to like the same thing, thankfully, but perhaps you just had bad bottles? I’ve only tried two vintages so far - 2007 and 2012, both of which were really good. I was lucky enough to find some 14, 15 and 16 before it disappeared from the market, one of which I plan to try soon.
On the basis of what I’ve tasted so far, for me it is certainly one of the top Loire reds, but…when I bought mine, it was selling for 30 to 35€, which is about the same as the top Joguets, or Baudry’s LCB for example (or Les Mémoires by Roches Neuves). I’d say that the quality is more or less the same. Today for example, the 2012 that I picked up at auction for 31€ in 2022 sells for between 75€ and 95€. I’m happy to have my little stash but I probably won’t be adding to it at those prices. It’s a lovely wine, perhaps fractionally more interesting than the competition, but I can’t honestly say it leaves them trailing in its wake!
Or pick a vintage like ‘21 where Matthieu chose to declassify the Croix Boissee into the base bottling.
Last week I hosted a tasting of Loire Cabernet Franc, with Chinon at the centre and a handful of jokers from neighbouring appellations.
As I wanted the wines to be presented the best way possible, I gave the opening and aeration process some attention.
The youngest bottles from 2019 to 2022 was opened the evening before and left opened through the night. The next day at about 14:00 all were double decanted along with the rest of the bottles from this millenium. The older bottles were opened and gently double decanted for sediments. (Two of the bottles were off. One (1985 Jean Maurice Raffault Picasses) was corked and the other seemed okay at first but then it fell apart completely (1989 Jerome Lenoir).
All wines were served blind. As a host, I didn’t have much time writing notes, so bear with me if they are not very elaborate.
Kitchen wines were Baudry’s Blanc Le Domaine 2022 which was simple, crisp and fine and the rosé 2023 which was great as always. I just love Baudry’s rosés. At our tastings we always start out with a Champagne and this time it was Petit Clergeot BdN from Cote des Bar. Super crisp and elegant style that noone guessed as Pinot Noir.
1st flight: Bernard Baudry
Bernard Baudry Grolleau Franc de Pied 2019
A charming and unusually serious expression of Grolleau, lifted by red cherry, wild strawberry, rosehip and a faint earthy spice. The palate is supple and juicy, but there is real structure beneath the easy fruit. Fine-boned, transparent and very Loire in its cool, herbal finish. (92 p.)
Bernard Baudry Chinon Les Grézeaux 2019
Classic Grezeaux, combining dark raspberry, blackcurrant leaf, graphite and a discreet smoky edge. The 2019 ripeness is present, but the wine keeps excellent freshness and proportion. Tannins are firm but polished, giving the wine a long, savoury, mineral finish. (94 p.)
Bernard Baudry Chinon Clos Guillot 2022
Bright, precise and beautifully perfumed, with violet, redcurrant, crushed herbs and wet limestone. Less muscular than La Croix Boissée, but wonderfully elegant. The palate is energetic and finely etched, with a chalky line running through the finish. A very complete young Clos Guillot. I felt that it was either underperforming or outshined by the other two. (93 p.)
Bernard Baudry Chinon La Croix Boissée 2020
Dense, deep and commanding, showing black cherry, cassis, tobacco leaf, graphite and cool spice. The structure is more vertical and focused than broad, with serious tannins, lovely acidity and impressive concentration. Still youthful, but already highly expressive. The more 2020’s I taste, the more I like them. (95 p.)
2nd flight: Philippe Alliet
Philippe Alliet Chinon Coteau de Noiré 2022
A powerful, glossy and intensely aromatic young Noiré. Black fruits, violet, liquorice, roasted pepper and dark mineral tones lead into a concentrated palate of impressive depth. The tannins are ripe and sculpted, the finish long and authoritative. Modern in polish, but unmistakably Alliet in its freshness and savoury restraint. Very impressive! (96 p.)
Philippe Alliet Chinon Coteau de Noiré 2016
Now entering a very attractive phase. Aromas of blackberry, cedar, tobacco, graphite and dried herbs unfold slowly in the glass. The palate is firm, layered and beautifully balanced, with the cooler tension of the vintage giving definition to the wine’s natural power. Still has years ahead. (95 p.)
Philippe Alliet Chinon Coteau de Noiré 2014
More angular and savoury than the 2016 and 2022, but also very expressive. Red and blackcurrant, green peppercorn, forest floor and dried flowers. The palate is medium-bodied, fresh and slightly austere, with fine tannic grip. A more classical, less opulent Noiré, showing the charm of the vintage. My personal winner of the flight. I just love the classic and cool elegance in 2014. (96 p.)
3rd flight: Olga Raffault
Olga Raffault Chinon Les Picasses 2018
Deeply traditional and classic Picasses in feel, with dark cherry, plum skin, tobacco, iron, leather and a touch of rustic spice. The palate is structured and honest, with firm tannins and a savoury, earthy finish. This needs time, but the material is excellent. (93 p)
Olga Raffault Chinon Les Picasses 2014
More evolved and open than the 2019, showing dried cherry, sous-bois, tobacco, rosehip, iron and a gentle animal complexity. The palate is savoury, fresh and persistent, with the firm Raffault structure softened by age. A beautifully traditional Picasses, drinking very well. (94 p.)
Olga Raffault Chinon La Singulière 2015
Riper and rounder in profile, with black cherry, plum, sweet herbs and a faint smoky note. The palate is generous and accessible, with softer tannins than Les Picasses and a warmer, more immediate expression. Bold and full bodied in a very New World-ish style from a warm vintage. Less precise than the two other bottles in the lineup. I am not much of a fan of this cuvée that I mockingly called Raffault’s Da Capo. I don’t like Pegau’s Da Capo and by far I prefer her Réservée. (90 p.)
4th flight: Charles Joguet
Charles Joguet Chinon Les Varennes du Grand Clos 2008
A fine, mature cuvée from a cooler year, showing redcurrant, cranberry, dried herbs, tobacco and a subtle stony quality. Slender but persistent, with bright acidity and a savoury, slightly ferrous finish. Elegant rather than powerful. A great example of why Varennes is worth noticing. (93 p.)
Charles Joguet Chinon Clos du Chêne Vert 2008
More depth and polish than the Varennes, with dark cherry, graphite, cedar, violet and dried leaf. Excellent tension with firm but resolved tannins and a long, mineral finish. A poised and classical mature Chinon with plenty of life remaining. (94 p.)
Charles Joguet Chinon Clos de la Dioterie 2004
One of the most complete wines of the tasting. Complex aromatics of blackcurrant, truffle, tobacco, dried flowers, iron and old leather. Deep, savoury and beautifully integrated, with refined tannins and a long, resonant finish. Mature but in no way tired. Quite the contrary. Superb! (96 p.)
5th flight: Jokers
Yannick Amirault Saint-Nicolas-de-Bourgueil Les Malgagnes Amphore 2022
Pure, floral and lifted, with red cherry, violet, raspberry, crushed stone and subtle herbal notes. The amphora élevage gives a gentle textural roundness without obscuring the fruit. Fine-grained, energetic and very drinkable, with a transparent finish. (93 p.)
Yannick Amirault Bourgueil Pavillon du Grand Clos 2022
Amirault’s limited cuvée only released in exceptional vintages. Darker and more structured than Les Malgagnes, with black raspberry, cassis, graphite, tobacco leaf and spice. Concentrated but controlled, with polished tannins and a remarkable freshness. A serious Bourgueil with impressive balance and ageing potential. Needs more time (obviously) to settle and when it does, this will be an amazing bottle! (94 p.)
Clos Nouveau 2013
Strikingly refined and complex. Aromas of redcurrant, wild strawberry, dried rose, incense, tobacco, graphite and damp earth. Silky, detailed and quietly intense, with beautiful maturity and no excess weight. A wine of finesse, nuance and haunting persistence. Nobody guessed this as a 2013. Some of the guys had this wine as their WOTN, and I can see why. (96 p.)
Clos Rougeard Saumur-Champigny Les Poyeux 2011
The most aristocratic wine of the tasting. Deeply perfumed, with red and black fruits, violet, smoke, pencil lead, fine herbs and a subtle meaty complexity. Seamless and concentrated yet weightless, savoury yet pure, with tannins of extraordinary finesse. Long, complete and profoundly expressive. My winner of the flight. (97 p.)
6th flight: Aged bottles
Charles Joguet Chinon Clos du Chêne Vert 1990
My WOTN. A glorious mature Chinon, fully expressive and beautifully resolved, yet still vibrant. The nose is expansive and deeply complex, with dried black cherry, plum, cigar box, leather, truffle, graphite, autumn leaves and a faint balsamic lift. It has the generosity of the 1990 vintage, but without any heaviness. The fruit, tertiary complexity and savoury mineral detail are all in perfect balance. Broad, harmonious and tickling all the right places, with a long, resonant finish. A magnificent bottle and to me the clear high point of the tasting. (97 p.)
Charles Joguet Chinon Clos de la Dioterie V.V. 1988
A very fine mature Dioterie, though somewhat overshadowed by the greater depth and emotional impact of the 1990 Chêne Vert. More restrained and classical in profile, showing dried blackcurrant, tobacco, cedar, forest floor, iron, spice and a touch of dried violet. The palate is composed and elegant, with admirable freshness and fine savoury persistence, but it did not quite reach the same level of amplitude or completeness as the Chêne Vert. Still a superb old Chinon, just not the star of this particular flight. (95 p.)
Jerome Lenoir Les Roches 1989
Completely disintegrated. No meaningful assessment possible.
Jean Maurice Raffault Chinon Les Picasses 1985
Corked. Not rated.
Nightcap
Champagne Henri Giraud Fût de Chêne 1999
Excellent, and a superb showcase for Giraud’s oxidative, oak-influenced house style. Deep golden in colour, with an expansive nose of baked apple, quince, toasted hazelnut, salted caramel, brioche, dried citrus peel, spice and polished old oak. Broad and vinous, with the richness of mature Champagne carried by fine acidity and a persistent saline backbone. There is a deliberate oxidative complexity here, but no heaviness. I just love that grower/house. (96 p.)
Wow!
Pity! How long was it open for? Had it a few times now and while it could’ve seemed corked at first, it always kept its composure throughout the night.
Wow indeed! What a fantastic line-up and tasting! What fascinating comparisons! I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your notes, on the contrary - they’re succinct but very clear and precise.
Baudry - no brett at all in the reds? I’ve never tried the Grolleau FDP and you certainly made me want to do so.
Clos Nouveau - the 2013 fight back continues…
I have also had this wine on several occasions before with great success. This was probably stored in not so good conditions.
