All three were from auctions. Provenance was good for the Dioterie and Varennes - bought a long time ago from a single collector’s sale, all of whose other wines I bought at the time have been fine. The FDP was bought a short while ago and I have no idea of provenance. All three looked perfect.
I’m reluctant to draw any conclusions, as I may just have been very unlucky, but three in a row is pushing the boundaries of bad luck! I also had a tired Varennes 09 recently, so I will dip into my older Joguets to check how they’re doing.
Very surprised to hear this with the Dioterie and the Varennes. Had the latter last year, and it was excellent. Had the former a couple of years ago, and while it was also excellent, I also thought it needed way more than five years. The Franc de Pied can be sublime when that 2005 is on point, but I will say a large percentage of my bottles, maybe 30 to 40%, were Brett bombs. I have some more 2005 coming in so hopefully yours was just an anomalous showing.
I can get Baudry Clos Guillot 2022 and/or Les Grezeaux 2022. I can only get the La Croix Boissée in 2021. Which should i go for if I want to cellar it for a bit?
I haven’t tried any of the three. If you can, buy one each of all three to try before you order more.
If not…2022 is a ripe, solar vintage and both wines will need a long time in the cellar. They will both be probably quite voluptuous now but I’m sure this will calm down with age. I would guess they would need at least ten, probably fifteen years. 2021 is less ripe, more acidic and crisp and I suspect that even the Croix Boissée will need less cellaring (I hope so because I have a couple!).
I’m too old to be buying any 2022s and the few I’ve tried have been a little hot on the finish, so if it was me (a boring old fart) I’d take the Croix Boissée. Plus I prefer that type of vintage. Now you are probably not like me (hopefully for you!) so if you’re younger and in search of a longer-lived wine go for the 2022s.
If push came to shove I would choose the Grézeaux, just because I find it more chalky in general than the plusher-tasting Guillot, but each to their own.
Thank you for a very good reply. I have very little experience with Cab franc from Loire, but every time I try one I love it and I want to start buying more. Both to cellar, but also to drink now.
I’ve read online that 22 is a better vintage than 21. I typically buy from better vintages when it comes to Bordeaux. Trying one of all three should be doable if I can team up with a friend.
2018 Roches neuves fdp was absolutely singing at Sunday lunch yesterday. Off the list at Elystan St so immediately decanted and served c. 45 mins later. Precise, crisp, red fruits with some obvious bell pepper notes spicing up the mid palate and finish. Really good length and absolutely delicious. Plenty of time to unfurl but equally, very enjoyable already.
I tried the '21 Croix Boissée and the '22 Les Grezeaux next to each other this summer (at the domaine, a lovely visit), with a 2006 Croix Boissée in the lineup as well. I have no experience with the Clos Guillot personally, so cannot comment on that. I would echo Julian’s sentiments about the vintages and cuvées. The '22 Grezeaux was the ripest, most concentrated and tannic wine in the lineup (the only 2022), but still well-balanced, showing a nice mix of red/dark berries and more herbal savoury notes. The '21 Croix Boissée was lighter on its feet, a bit fresher, more floral, still with good concentration and balance. Very pretty and complex. I have no doubt that either one would age very well given the structure and quality of the fruit, so I would say it’s mostly down to preference. I would think '22s will be longer-lived in general. I have put both in the cellar.
What has everyone’s experience been with the 2020 Croix Boisee? I’ve got a bottle and reviews look good, seems like it’s drinking well now but ideally should be held for another 5-10?
I haven’t tried it but on the basis of other young Croix Boissées from ripe years, I would guess that it would be enjoyable now but much better in at least ten years time.
2010 Domaine Bernard Baudry Chinon Le Clos Guillot
Started badly - a rather bretty and vegetal nose, with the same sensations dominating the cherry fruit, then revealed its true colours mid-bottle: all of a sudden the bretty clouds lifted to show a cool, fresh mouthful of very pure, precise blackcurrant and dark cherry, quite long and persistent. So it turned out OK in the end!
2017 Domaine Bernard Baudry Chinon Le Clos Guillot
Unlike the 2010, I decanted this one, but there was still a lot of brett on the nose and palate. In fact, it seemed to come and go at first, before revealing properly a similar range of tastes to the 2010, but slightly plusher and deeper. Quite savoury and earthy, without the chalkiness I associate with Chinon, but very enjoyable and with definite promise for the future.
I’ve had mixed experiences with Clos Guillot so this wasn’t a great surprise. Next time, no matter the age, I will definitely decant. I don’t really mind a bit of brett but it happens a lot with Baudrys, except so far for me with La Croix Boissée. Both these wines were much more like Bourgueils than Chinons (I like both so it didn’t matter). Overall, I enjoyed them, but I wasn’t bowled over. I’ve got a dozen over several vintages left, but I won’t rush out to buy any more.
Presumably, my recent TN you already saw. But, in case you didn’t, and because you asked …
2020 Domaine Bernard Baudry Chinon La Croix Boissée - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon (7/14/2025)
– decanted approx. 30 min. before initial taste –
– tasted non-blind over 2.75 hrs on Day 1; revisited on Day 2 –
NOSE: immediately recognizable as Cab. Franc; sweet edge to the fruit aromas (grape soda); noticeable pyrazine; purple-fruited; expressive.
BODY: magenta-violet color of medium-deep depth; little bit of superfine particulate matter present; medium bodied.
TASTE: medium+ to high acidity; flavorful, but perhaps a bit reserved; Cab. Franc herbal wash; kinda halfway between usual Clos Guillot and usual Croix Boissee — this is not a vertically-structured Bdx.-esque vintage, which you sometimes get from this bottling; approachable for a Boissee; noticeable pyrazine, and it’s more jalapeno than it is bell pepper; medicinal cherry; plum; very fine tannins; there’s certainly a lot going on here; hint of tobacco; alc. not noticeable; a reduction or brett note (light) persisted over 3.25 hrs open on Day 1, but it’s not strong enough to turn me off of it. I quite enjoy this. Day 2: largely the same as Day 1 — still excellent; funk has stepped-back somewhat, but it’s not completely gone. Better with age, but surprisingly good for drinking now, too. I’m marking my bottles as “Drink By 2040” – I will adjust that in the future as I deem appropriate, but that feels like a good place to plant a flag for now.
I posted this up thread back in 2022, which still sums up how I feel about the three main appellations (just my take):
Chinon - if I only had one Loire red to take to a desert island, it would be a Chinon. They have a crisp, sometimes even haughty sort of majesty that I haven’t found elsewhere, with fruit profiles sometimes a little like Pauillac, sometimes more like Pomerol, but always with a chalky edge to the finish.
Bourgueil - much less aristocratic than Chinons, I find these to be rounder, less chiselled, earthier, no chalky edge, but capable of great elegance too. I find the fruit to be more red than black, with sometimes a meaty touch mid-palate. I can’t say I have really noticed a difference with St.Nicolas de Bourgueil.
Saumur-Champigny - For me, S-Cs have purer, brighter fruit than the two others, neither chalky nor earthy, but with a potential for quite a sizeable structure allied to great elegance.
