Had my first Olga Raffault. Les Picasses, 2005. This was also my first real disappointment. Bottle was in great condition with lots of young fresh fruit still. But it just had an unbalanced sweetness to it that i could not distract from. After two days and a lot of air i gave up on it.
But i still have the famous 2014 to taste. So lets see if that will be a better impression.
That’s a bummer and sorry to hear that it didn’t show well. I recently had '09 and '10 side by side and they were glorious. I’m holding on to the '14s for awhile, but if you are able to find some, definitely try the '09 and '10s. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
The 2014 Olga Raffault Les Picasses was on of my WOTY in 2021
I had two fabulous wines over the weekend, from Domaine de la Cotelleraie in Saint Nicolas de Bourgueil.
This is owned by Gérald Vallée, the brother of Mathieu Vallée, the owner of Château Yvonne. He stopped using weed-killers and fertilizers in 1999 and has been organic since 2012. There are several wines, all red, of which the top two are these two:
Le Vau Jaumier - 2005
Very attractive aromas of ripe raspberry and morello cherries, before a bright attack featuring the same, then a full-bodied yet elegant middle section featuring wild strawberry but also victoria plums, and a long finish focusing more on blackcurrant. Quite rich, but there is a velvety touch and an earthiness which keep it on track. Still very youthful, this will improve further over the next five years and last for a lot more.
L’Envolée - 2005
The nose and attack are more candied than the Vau Jaumier, this time featuring intense loganberries and blackberries, then successive waves of redcurrant, cranberry and wild strawberry. More silky and elegant than the Vau Jaumier, but with less body and less earthiness. This time, the richness is tempered by a little more acidity on the finish.
Fascinating to try together, if push came to shove I would just prefer the Vau Jaumier but both wines are excellent.
The style is along the same lines as La Chevalerie and Jacky Blot. Both wines are among the best I have tasted from 2005 so far.
This is an estate to look out for at auction, because the prices are very low for the quality. Le Vau Jaumier goes for 15 - 20 euros a bottle, L’Envolée between 20 and 25 euros.
Sounds nice. I will keep an eye on idealwine for these.
Yes, that is where I found them - they do appear quite regularly - I promise to leave them for you the next time they do!
Sorry the Picasses was not on form. For a supposedly great vintage, I find that 2005 varies in quality a lot from one producer to another. The Picasses by Coulaine is quite good if you see any.
You can have the next few ones hehe. Will be a few months before i do another auction raid 
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First, what an absolutely incredible thread this is. I’ve gradually gone through it over the last week, trying to digest what I can given the wealth of information in it. Seriously, who needs the vinous or WA reports?!
I start from ground zero in terms of my understanding or appreciation of loire cf reds. I define ground zero as associating them with french cafe house wines served at around 7C and providing a momentary hit of red fruit and a bucket full of mouth stripping acidity immediately thereafter! However, I was served a selection at a recent dinner that completely changed my perspective. I come from a background of ditching any and all bordeaux from 05 onwards in favour of burgundy, although I still enjoy the odd bordeaux here and there, particularly those in the more red fruited end of the spectrum. Within burgundy, hardly unusually, my tastes align with the usual suspects such as mugneret gibourg, rousseau, dujac and fourrier. I’ve no problem with acid as I’m an avid champagne and german riesling drinker too! With all that background and trying to parse the full 14 pages in this thread in terms of where I might start looking in loire cf:
Really appreciate any and all thoughts as I very cautiously put a toe in the water…!
Dan, glad you’ve enjoyed our little rabbit hole!
Roches-Neuves - this is very much a love/hate producer. I’m mostly in the “love” category, although the last bottle I tried was a bit disorientating. The taste isn’t “modern” in the überripe Michel Rolland-type style, far from it. It’s what I would describe, and this makes some people scream (!), as postmodern. If you have tried organic or especially bio-dynamic reds from elsewhere, for example from Beaujolais, you’ll get what mean. The fruit is crunchy, acidic, with little or no sense of sweetness, a little like a zero dosage champagne. The downside appears to be a lack of depth - some have said “soul” - the upside being the incredible freshness of the fruit. I would say the best one to try would be the Franc de Pieds. It’s not too expensive and easy to find at auction.
Vintages - so far, I just prefer 2017 to 2016. Loire vintages tend to get lumbered with the same reputation as Bordeaux vintages, so 2017 has been a little ignored. But the ones I have tried have been a little riper and softer than the very crisp (and maybe a little shrill) 2016s, without the gloopiness of some 2018s. 2017 is still (in France at least) quite easy to find.
Yannick Amirault - definitely a producer to try. After the first couple of years, they are hard or impossible to find at retail but they do come up at auction regularly. His 2017s are all good, but so are all recent vintages.
Rougeard - unlike some lucky so-and-sos here, I have never tasted a bottle. But if the offer is half the current price I would get them anyway - if you don’t like the first, you can always sell the others very easily and cover the cost of the bottle you tried.
Otherwise, I would look out for a medium-aged Joguet at auction, to get an idea if you like Loire CFs or not: something like Les Varennes 2009 or 2010. They are not too expensive - Joguets have good, silky fruit and a very strong sense of nobility to them, so I serve them to friends who like Bordeaux but have never tried a Chinon.
Julian,
Many thanks for such a thoughtful and comprehensive reply - perfectly in keeping with this thread! I took the plunge on the rougeards and as you noted, I should be able to sell them if the first couple don’t really work for me.
I’ll also try and track down a mixture of what you and others have recommended here to see if some of the “lower level” stuff appeals.
Dan
Well shoot, pop a damn Rougeard and post some notes!
What did you snag? The Le Clos? The 09 or 10 should be quite interesting right now. I like 2011 but not 2008 so much. Neither are great vintages.
If you see anything 2014, snag it!
Roche Neuve is much better than we are giving it credit for being. It’s just more on the modern side, if I can say that without it sounding too pejorative. I do not think you will find it too sweet - leaving aside 2018 of course - it’s just very polished, clean, and as you have read, generally lacking some soul. Definitely try the Franc de Pied. I would say this domaine is probably great for newbies, introduces you to Loire Cab Franc in a soft manner, while staying true to the archetype. Then try Raffault!
A bottle of the 09 breze, 1 of the 08 saumur and 2 of the 11, 2 of the 08 Bourg and 3 of the 11 and 3 of the 08 poyeux.
I’ll definitely try to track down some of the roches neuves.
Wow, that’s quite a score. Going deep!
Go big or go home!’
I agree that Roches Neuves is getting a bit too much schtick (maybe that’s a little harsh - perhaps less love?). The Franc de Pied, in particular, is something I’d like to have a discussion about. I don’t think it’s very fair to compare RN FdP to Joguet’s or Plouzeau’s - or even RN Les Memoires. While Thierry’s FdP comes from Cab Franc vines on French rootstock, it’s my understanding that those vines are not particularly old. I think they’re only about 20 years old at this point. Can anyone confirm this? I think I recall Thierry mentioning this when I visited his domaine a few years ago, but I didn’t write it down. Therefore, to compare it to his own Les Memoires, which has vines over 110 years old, Plouzeau’s Ante-Phylloxera (100+), and however old Joguet’s Varennes Franc de Pied vines were before they succumbed to the louse, isn’t exactly apples-to-apples.
Even RN Clos de l’Echelier Rouge comes from vines that are well over twice as old as the Franc de Pied, if that 20 years old FdP stat is true.
I like the Franc de Pied (and plan on checking in on a 2017 tonight) but considering the price for FdP and Clos de l’Echelier Rouge is basically the same in my market, I’m starting to shift my purchasing to a couple fewer bottles of the former, and a few bottles more of the latter, as I find it shows a little more depth and complexity. Les Memoires is a different story, though. 
Jay, your statement about the age of the RN FDP vines jives with something I read.
Agree that it is hard to judge RN accurately at this point as I prefer my CFs with 15+ years and the oldest RN bottle I’ve tried was 8 years. They have the stuffing to blossom into something truly wonderful, but like Owlman I prefer “rustic” CFs, which is not RN’s style at all.
Had both a 2014 Château Yvonne Saumur-Champigny and 2015 La Porte Saint Jean Saumur-Champigny this week. I loved both and preferred both to Roches Neuves 2014, Les Mémoires.
Had an early Valentine’s dinner at Comptoir Robuchon this evening and noticed that they had a decent selection of RNs and Antoine Sauzays. Opted for the 17 Memoires to go with a peppery beef tenderloin and asked them to decant it immediately. First glass was very tight and chalky. After half an hour or so though the wine was really singing. Gorgeous red fruit and velvet texture. Obvious potential for ageing. Indeed, it seemed to tighten up again after an hour or so. I may be hooked…
Sylvain Dittiere is making wonderful wines.
Inspired by Robert’s note on the 09 Joguet, I decided to open an 09 Olga Raffault Picasses rouge. I am late to the game so backfilled on four of these recently. Surprisingly, for a ripe vintage it is totally in balance, alcohol not noticeable at all, and still primary and not showing much aromatically on the first glass The green tint is there but in the background. Pure and lithe. Will let it open up and check back in later.