96+ points from Kapon on corked bottle of DRC

[NoahR]

@Jay Miller

@NoahR

But, unless you are a complete and total jackass, douchenozzle, or a complete and total shill, there is no justification for rating a wine that you perceived as slightly corked at 96 points. A flawed wine with great underpinnings is not a great wine. Having never met Kapon,I give him the benefit of the doubt and will just call him a self-serving shill in this particular case.

The justification is that you can then quote that “rating” and “review” when auctioning off bottles of said wine.

Does that qualify as douche or just shill?

[Anton_D]

I remember, somewhere in the hazy past, hearing or reading that some people think corked wine remains more “youthful” over time.

Is there some sort of antioxidant property to TCA?

I find it quite off-putting so am a bad judge for any purported “benefit.”

I agree that it seems that even if someone is not TCA sensitive it does still mute that person’s enjoyment of the wine.

[Kasey_Dubler]

My thought is the only reason this review was posted is because he wanted the world to know he was drinking a 1999 DRC Montrachet jeroboam. I’ve found that often times people enjoy bragging to the world about what they are drinking almost as much (or more) as drinking the wine itself. The minute he posts a review of a $10 wine that was corked, but he decided to review it anyways I will admit I was wrong… Otherwise, he just wants to brag about what he’s drinking, even if its flawed… I agree douchenozzle…

[k_s_h_i_n]

@John Morris

I’ve had some corked wines that I enjoyed a lot. A '95 Chevillon and an old Heitz cab come to mind. Some people are more put off by the smell than I am.

I think one can reasonably evaluate the quality. Not sure if one can enjoy a corked bottle as the taint is quite strong and mutes the overall expression in a very major way.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Rajiv Ayyangar

@Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡

Inability to pick up TCA doesn’t mean you are a worse taster. It means you are less sensitive to TCA.

I have to disagree. It mutes the fruit as well as the overall expression.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@R@y.Tupp@+sch

DRC Montrachet is without a doubt one of the greatest white wines produced in almost every vintage. To state otherwise is at best, inexperienced.

Ray,
I rarely get to drink one but love DRC Montrachet but it is a very unique/extremely ripe style. I don’t think everyone will appreciate it if served blind.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

@k s h i n

@R@y.Tupp@+sch

DRC Montrachet is without a doubt one of the greatest white wines produced in almost every vintage. To state otherwise is at best, inexperienced.

Ray,
I rarely get to drink one but love DRC Montrachet but it is a very unique/extremely ripe style. I don’t think everyone will appreciate it if served blind.

One may not like its style, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a great wine.

I’m not a fan of Z-H’s SGN’s but I don’t deny the wine are of a very high quality. Nor would I say people pay up for them because they have more money than common sense.

[Mont_Stern]

@Craig G

I saw this email this morning and had a good laugh. Kapon is an idiot.

We have somebody even James Suckling can look good in comparison.

[Anton_D]

@Mont Stern

@Craig G

I saw this email this morning and had a good laugh. Kapon is an idiot.

We have somebody even James Suckling can look good in comparison.

[patrick_c_albright]

@Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡

May be anecdotal, but I tend to notice the following at wine dinners/bachannals:

When wines are perceived to be slightly corked, there is often disagreement at dinners as to whether or not (especially for an older or even oxidative style wine) said wine is corked. As such, people in the “non corked” camp often hold their tongue in the face of the corked camp’s declaration because the perception is that an inability to pickup the nuance of a corked wine renders you an inferior taster.

Often times, the non-corked camp will post an ambivalent note like the one above that states some satisfaction with the wine but caveats that it was corked.

Dog and pony show continues.

I opened a bottle of 2014 Richard Leroy Montbenault the other evening and two fairly well known Napa winemakers both thought the wine was corked. It was not.

[NoahR]

@patrick c albright

@Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡

May be anecdotal, but I tend to notice the following at wine dinners/bachannals:

When wines are perceived to be slightly corked, there is often disagreement at dinners as to whether or not (especially for an older or even oxidative style wine) said wine is corked. As such, people in the “non corked” camp often hold their tongue in the face of the corked camp’s declaration because the perception is that an inability to pickup the nuance of a corked wine renders you an inferior taster.

Often times, the non-corked camp will post an ambivalent note like the one above that states some satisfaction with the wine but caveats that it was corked.

Dog and pony show continues.

I opened a bottle of 2014 Richard Leroy Montbenault the other evening and two fairly well known Napa winemakers both thought the wine was corked. It was not.

I mean Leroy Chenin is good stuff, but was it a John Kapon 96/100? Because that really counts for something…

[DougS]

@patrick c albright

@Faryan Amir-Ghassem¡

May be anecdotal, but I tend to notice the following at wine dinners/bachannals:

When wines are perceived to be slightly corked, there is often disagreement at dinners as to whether or not (especially for an older or even oxidative style wine) said wine is corked. As such, people in the “non corked” camp often hold their tongue in the face of the corked camp’s declaration because the perception is that an inability to pickup the nuance of a corked wine renders you an inferior taster.

Often times, the non-corked camp will post an ambivalent note like the one above that states some satisfaction with the wine but caveats that it was corked.

Dog and pony show continues.

I opened a bottle of 2014 Richard Leroy Montbenault the other evening and two fairly well known Napa winemakers both thought the wine was corked. It was not.

So, did you have a sample tested for TCA in a lab? If not, you really can’t say for sure that it wasn’t. They might both have lower recognition thresholds than you. In fact, with 2 people saying it was, I strongly suspect that’s the case. The fact that you know what cork taint smells like does not mean you can identify it no matter how little is present. That is impossible.

[patrick_c_albright]

Doug,
No, I did not send the sample to ETS.

My point, as Faryan described, was a wine, in this case that was extremely reductive upon opening, came across as corked. The wine changed significantly after being opened for a period of time.

[Jay_Miller]

Older chenin is also notorious for having a funky smell that is is easily mistaken for tca but which blows off with air.

[Jonathan_Favre]

What a wonderful thread! Is all this back and forth because of individuals subjective point score on a wine that may or may not have been reduced or slightly/totally corked? This is why I have personally stopped putting a number score when I subjectively rate a wine that I’ve opened or that has been generously shared with me - unless it’s a quick impression of quality (in a fleeting moment) which may sometimes include whatever underlying material there may be in a reduced or slightly corked wine. There - I can’t be wrong - lol.

For all of you that still try to subjectively score a wine on a point scale - thank you. I will never question your tasting abilities (or try to bully you into changing your opinion) unless we’re talking about the same wine over dinner . Even then - you’re opinion is always correct. I wish I was there to sample that Montrachet (even if slightly corked…) because I have a singleton somewhere in a box and would have loved to see what it’s all about from a bottle with such girth and breathtaking beauty.

We have it very good - we’re able to vote in elections and with our $. If you don’t like something then don’t buy it - that applies to goods and/or opinions. Feel confident, therein lies your ultimate revenge!

[CFu]

@Jonathan Favre

What a wonderful thread! Is all this back and forth because of individuals subjective point score on a wine that may or may not have been reduced or slightly/totally corked? This is why I have personally stopped putting a number score when I subjectively rate a wine that I’ve opened or that has been generously shared with me - unless it’s a quick impression of quality (in a fleeting moment) which may sometimes include whatever underlying material there may be in a reduced or slightly corked wine. There - I can’t be wrong - lol.

For all of you that still try to subjectively score a wine on a point scale - thank you. I will never question your tasting abilities (or try to bully you into changing your opinion) unless we’re talking about the same wine over dinner . Even then - you’re opinion is always correct. I wish I was there to sample that Montrachet (even if slightly corked…) because I have a singleton somewhere in a box and would have loved to see what it’s all about from a bottle with such girth and breathtaking beauty.

We have it very good - we’re able to vote in elections and with our $. If you don’t like something then don’t buy it - that applies to goods and/or opinions. Feel confident, therein lies your ultimate revenge!

I’ll pick a random night out of the hat for you to open it.

Say 2/17/2017?

[Jonathan_Favre]

@c fu

@Jonathan Favre

What a wonderful thread! Is all this back and forth because of individuals subjective point score on a wine that may or may not have been reduced or slightly/totally corked? This is why I have personally stopped putting a number score when I subjectively rate a wine that I’ve opened or that has been generously shared with me - unless it’s a quick impression of quality (in a fleeting moment) which may sometimes include whatever underlying material there may be in a reduced or slightly corked wine. There - I can’t be wrong - lol.

For all of you that still try to subjectively score a wine on a point scale - thank you. I will never question your tasting abilities (or try to bully you into changing your opinion) unless we’re talking about the same wine over dinner . Even then - you’re opinion is always correct. I wish I was there to sample that Montrachet (even if slightly corked…) because I have a singleton somewhere in a box and would have loved to see what it’s all about from a bottle with such girth and breathtaking beauty.

We have it very good - we’re able to vote in elections and with our $. If you don’t like something then don’t buy it - that applies to goods and/or opinions. Feel confident, therein lies your ultimate revenge!

I’ll pick a random night out of the hat for you to open it.

Say 2/17/2017?

— yes, something of the sort will be in my stash - I think :p. You better not complain about it either!!! lol

[Bruce_Leiser_owitz]

@patrick c albright

Doug,
No, I did not send the sample to ETS.

My point, as Faryan described, was a wine, in this case that was extremely reductive upon opening, came across as corked. The wine changed significantly after being opened for a period of time.

So if it was extremely reductive upon opening, I gather that the aromas & flavors were muted to them and thus they thought it was (or might be) corked?

As I mentioned upthread, there’s the corkiness due to the archetypical wet/musty cardboard qualities (which is almost always a sign of TCA taint). And then there’s the evaluation that a wine must be corked because the aromas and flavors seem to be drastically muted compared to expectations. The second scenario is more difficult to judge, especially when the bottle is first opened. As you say, a wine that seems very mute when opened can change a lot after aeration.

Bruce

[larry_schaffer]

And what really sucks is trying to explain this to the lay person who doesn’t drink much wine.

Also let’s say the wine was sent off for testing and it came back with one part per billion TCA. That would prove that it was corked, but it would not prove that everyone was able to pick up on that.

And even the term muted is so subjective that it means one thing to one person and another to someone else.

So frustrating.

[Brad_England]

@Jonathan Favre

…Even then - you’re opinion is always correct…

Excellent. This is going to save so much time!