86’ Mouton or Lafite or ??

WINE TALK
21

I’ve had 86 Mouton on many occasions and I’ve never found it to be a “giving” wine. Always tight and bruising. If you’re looking for a solid drinking experience, look elsewhere.

22

I won’t be opening my remaining bottles of the ‘86 Mouton or Lafite until at least 2025. Great wines, but every bottle I’ve opened seemed to be at least 10 years away from maturity. Conversely, the ‘86 Margaux, Haut Brion, and Cheval Blanc are all drinking beautifully today. An OWC of ‘86 Cheval Blanc that I won at auction last year has proven to be my “Best Buy” of the year…every bottle has been stunning.

23

Sadly, I’ve always found 1986 to be a charmless Bordeaux vintage. The wines tend towards leathery and tannic.

I’ve not had the Mouton, but the Lafite is meh, especially for the price (and this bottle was late-release ex-chateau last year). The best Bordeaux I’ve had are on the right bank; if 1986 is a must, I would pick Cheval Blanc. Or Yquem.

For your price range, there are much better wines in 1990, 1989 (see Mark Golodetz’s suggestion above), 1985, 1983, and 1982.

24

[drinkers.gif] Rausan Segla is a superstar in 86. It easily held its own against 82 Margaux about 8 years ago.

25

I once sat next to the winemaker at a dinner in Bordeaux who was responsible for the 1982 and 1986. He said the 1986 Mouton resembles the 1945 but needs a lot of time in a good cellar. He thought it is the superior wine to the 1982. For drinking today the 82 is the better choice. But I also think the 86 is better because it was probably the best young wine I ever tasted in 1989. It´s a bit frustrating that this wine is still not ready to drink but I guess it will be sensationell in the future. I will not touch my bottles the next 5 years.

26

When Mouton ‘82 is right it is glorious; the 1986 is more powerful at its best but I don’t think better. There is an apocryphal story of Richard the Lionheart an English king fighting the crusades. He meets Saladin the Saracen general, and the two compare their toys. Richard pulls out his monster, double handed sword and cracks through a block of wood, Saladin takes his scimitar flings up a piece of silk and cuts through it. The 1986 is Richard’s sword, tough, brutal and magnificent in its way, the 1982 is Saladin’s beautiful scimitar. As you have probably gathered my preference is for the 1982 when it is right, but there is tremendous variability with it.

I am however convinced that the 2016 is the better Mouton. It is actually the best young Bordeaux I have ever tasted, but won’t do the OP much good, as the earliest it should be drunk is 2030.

Just reread this, and am struck by all the phallic imagery of the story, something I thankfully missed as a child.

27

Wine is full of surprises and predictions are always problematic. If the 1986 shows the same magic when it is really ready to drink as the young wine did then I am optimistic that it is the best wine of the 80th. But nobody can be sure about that. Even more since with additional age the risk of bottle variation grows.

28

The Margaux was the best of the 86 I had last year. Be very careful of storage when buying an 86 on the open market.

29

I have never tried the ‘86 Lafite, but the best ‘86 bdx to date has been gruaud larose. It was a show stopper.

30

1998 Haut Brion.

31

We took a '98 Haut Brion to a dinner back in January right before the shutdown-it was amazing. No hurry to open one obviously but it was in a pretty good place.

32

This is on my bucket list for sure. Along with the 89. Other icons for me would be 82 PLL, 90 Montrose, which should fall well within the OP’s budget, even if we have shifted on his original prerequisite of 1986 :slight_smile:

33

Just wanted to send a quick thank you for all the contributions! Can always count on this place for some guidance and to learn a few things…

I’m finalizing with the friend so they’re confident in the direction they want to go. I’m pushing them to go with more than one bottle so there’s a backup so we’ll see what they’re willing to do. And while I personally love all the additional wine recommendations, for this particular gift, they have to stay in the confines of 86’. We shall see.

Thanks again all…much appreciated.

34

the 2000’s are IMHO too young to open now and have a wow experience.
However Robert, you mention 1998 and in 1998 Cheval Blanc is ready to drink and wonderful

35

Avoid the 1990 Montrose. When it is good, it is indeed great, but a significant percentage had seriously high levels of Brett and were undrinkable. Pichon Lalande would have been a great go to fifteen years ago. Magnificent wine, but it now is in the category of you don’t have great wines but great bottles.

Some other suggestions where you could buy multiple bottles:
1998 Trotanoy
1996 Leoville Las Cases
1990 Haut Brion
2005 VCC
1985 Cheval Blanc
Pichon Lalande 1989
1

36

What happened to Pichon Lalande?

37

Interesting. I am not going to change it though; in its present form it has a certain asymmetric charm.

1 Like
38

If we are just sticking to 1986, my choices would be Rausan Selgla, Talbot, Gruaud Larose and Pichon Lalande - never been disappointed with any of those - all 94 to 97 points. Of course Mouton is very impressive but it’s a lot more expensive and can be grumpy. Not as big a fan of Margaux as some in this vintage - and I have had it many times. Yquem and Climens are my favorite Sauternes in that vintage (with a slight preference for Climens).

39

I was at a dinner with Chris about 2 years ago and we had the 86 Pichon Lalande, Rauzan Segla, Gruaud Larose and Cos d’Estournel. For my palate, the Pichon was otherworldly great, following by the awesome yet semi-austere Rauzan Segla (which always shows dry, hard tannins but more than enough fruit to compensate). The Gruaud was terrific, but a step down. I didn’t really love the Cos, which was too dry and hard to really get jazzed over (but even so it was a very good bottle).

Longer back, I was at a huge 86 horizontal in 2008 with all the stars in the lineup, and the wines showed brilliantly. The nearly unanimous top 3 were in order the Mouton, Lafite and Rauzan Segla.

40

I did a blind flight at a tasting a few years ago, Margaux 1986 versus the Rauzan Segla 1986. There were ten tasters there, and all ten preferred the Rauzan.