Yes, that list does not factor price in at all.
Itās hard to express just how important John Paul is to the Oregon wine industry. Clos Electrique is a multi-clonal selection planted in the early 80s, 30 years ahead of anyone, and Johnās Chardonnays were highly influential on many of the people on my list.
I think @Vincent_Fritzsche wines, all of them, are in an elite group for value. I really love the Chardonnays, and should have included him in my full listā¦though heāll need to get some new, and preferably large format, barrels into the program!
I enjoy Cameron Pinots, and it sounds like Clos Electrique is a special site, but Iāve always thought Clos Electrique Chardonnay was a strange wine. Maybe I just donāt get it but with my limited experience I get loads of yellow apple on the nose and the palate is a bit sweet and lacking tension. Blind I might call it Chenin. Last vintage I tried was the 21.
Without any disrespect to Cameron, John followed Ramonet for the house style. Through the 90s he was able to illustrate some tremendous wines in the cooler climate. I feel like the wines stil represent well, but I also feel that the regional style that is evolving leans to a more linear, nervy style. I love John and he was a big reason I took the leap i to making wine. But I feel like the wines I drink the most aim for an electric presence that isnāt really the Cameron style.
This is such a great comment - I wish I could express it as well as you have. But I have an iota of your experience and I donāt make wine either, so thereās that. For sure different style and my suggestion that Cameron isnāt pushing things forward/evolving was a more clunky way of expressing what you succinctly described. Definitely donāt get that electric charge that I get in young bottles of the producers you highlighted. And for my tastes, I donāt love Cameron young - prefer them with 7-10 years in bottle and find they have a more refined style. So different for sure but appreciate them as well.
And for the record, I now have on order some White Walnut - and theyāre on my short list to try and visit next time in Oregon. Just what I needed, another Oregon winery to put on my purchase list - thanks a lot Marcus
A couple of years ago, I found the 2016s going over the hill. Not a preference - they were no longer good.
The 2012 Cameron Clos Electrique Wadsworth is one of the finest American Chardonnays Iāve had. Last drank one in 2023 but didnāt show any signs of steep decline. And Iāve drunk a lot of Cameron since the 2008 vintage, but havenāt bought any in years because I have been buying and drinking more of Marcusās wines and those on his list.
I donāt doubt that. Cameron has a high reputation for a reason. However, my batch of 2016s were definitely in decline and I have heard similar comments. I think I stopped buying Cameron all together after finding the 2019 Dundee Hills flabby by comparison to other OR producers.
2019 was the last vintage I bought as well. For similar reasons.
I will pile on here, I had a 2017 clos electric last year that drank significantly older than expected. Lots of Carmel. I loved it when I had it on release. Bottle was stored appropriately. I have another. Bottle I was going to check on in a bit here.
Appreciate the data points and insight, particularly from experienced people. And apology to the OP for the sizeable thread drift. I will say I havenāt yet had anything younger than 2016. Will note that the last 2016 Clos I had last summer I thought wasnāt at the level of most Cameron in the past - seemed to lack some complexity. Will have to break out some of the younger bottles soon. Iāll be interested to see how I perceive them now.
And for further drift, interesting to wonder what the difference is in longevity people are seeing more recently. Presumably winemaking the same. Just the influence on changing weather patterns and growing season? Other influences? Or more simply a difference in comparison to others?
I will dog pile on the pile on. The 5 bottles of 2016-2017 Cameron CEB that Iāve opened have been all been tired and like Chris wrote, not even good. I have one bottle of 2017 Abbey Ridge that I hope will at least be a decent bottle. Havenāt purchased any more since the 17 vintage.
What is a WB thread without thread drift!
I donāt know how much John Paul is still actively involved in the winemaking beyond the big decisions. Tom Sivilli has been the winemaker at Cameron for a number of years but must be making to Johnās vision. Tom started his own sparkling project - Sivilli Wine Co. Has anyone had it? Retailers are gushing over it, but a heard from a non-retailer that it was not impressive.
Have had one bottle of Sivilli sparkling (Charlieās Block) last year. I did enjoy it and thought it one of the better sparkling Iāve had from Oregon but didnāt take extensive notes. Did make a notation I would like to try again though. And it looks like I paid $45 for the bottle which was very well priced I thought.
Weāve had a couple of bottles of the Sivilli. It has some of the funk of a Cameron. If thatās your jam, youāll enjoy it. At 45, itās a pretty nice bargain.
Iāll join in on the disappointment in recent Cameron CEB vintages. All but one of my 6 pack of 2019 was over the hill and had quite a few duds from 2015-2017. Iām out until, at a minimum, they switch to Diam, which really bums me out as when itās on CEB is a top 3 OR Chardonnay for me and as noted upthread the 2012 Wadsworth was absolutely dynamite.
Diam would likely help, but I wonder what the actual issue is. Plenty of other OR winemakers are still using natural cork without having this extent of premox issues.
It very well may not be cork-related but I donāt see John or Tom undergoing any major winemaking changes of late but maybe others have insight here.
FWIW of the young, tired OR Chardonnays Iāve had over the last 4-5 years, they were all under cork so Iām out on any white not under Diam. No issues yet on redsā¦.
Fair point!