The problem with ranking lists are they are pretty much identical with the same 10-15 top larger estates on them. And there is nothing wrong with that but those lists for me sounds bit outdated in 2023. I have yet to see tier list with names like Dr. Hermann, Steinmetz, Müllen, Loewen, Hüls, Klein, Melsheimer etc, etc all very capable of making awesome wines & consistent lineups and are not even new(ish) nor upcoming names. They just are not what most people are not considering as a-tier for some reason I don’t really get.
Which one? 
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Because the wines aren’t as good maybe?
Dr. Hermann has produced some of the finest rs wines of recent vintages including all ”a-tier” heavy hitters. I don’t really mind points but MFW has scored them also really high. Is it in same league than Egon? Maybe not but I would buy 10 bottles of fuder -6- or ÜrzWürz alte reben instead of one bottle of scharzhofberger any day.
Yes a bit of a BA+ specialist. I’ve enjoyed some bottles but not at the level of others maybe. And heavier in my (limited) experience.
You have tasted the wines after Christan took over the estate? They are completely different level than say 10 years ago and style is changed also for lighter. Really nicely priced still so I would suggest you to order kabinett & spätlese lineup 
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Yes the sweet wines.
Since you tell me the Kabinett and Spatlese are as good as Haart/Prum/Schaefer I will buy some 22s.
The usual outlets don’t show any yet.
Well that’s a tuff trio to beat but I’ll stand with my opinnion 
. I have bought directly from the estate as those are kinda hard to find. Lobenberg has probably biggest stock of retailers I have seen but they don’t ship outside of Germany (or at least to Finland) any more 
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It might be good to point out that you’re referring to Wwe. Dr. H. Thanisch – Erben Müller-Burggraef (14 ha), so it’s clear that you’re not referring to Wwe. Dr. H. Thanisch – Erben Thanisch (9 ha).
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Or the other Thanisch… (not Dr H).
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Do you mean the one in Lieser?
There was a long period where I was largely disappointed with Wwe. Dr. H. Thanisch – Erben Thanisch, but things have gotten much, much better.
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That’s good to know. I haven’t tasted the last few vintages.
Certainly worth a try. They may not be your style, but they certainly pass the quality test.
I do think that (beyond truly mediocre stuff) that “quality assessment” are often more stylistic in nature. That’s where my rather old-school palate diverges from current board consensus.
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I was referring the vdp Weingut Wwe. Dr. H. Thanisch Erben Thanisch (organization is easier to point out than name ) as I somewhat automatically thought we talked about it. I have not tasted much or any of Wwe. Dr. H. Thanisch Erben Müller-Burggraef wines lately so I can’t speak about the recent vintages at all.
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2021 was really good vintage for them. Even basic kabinett which has been so-so was very good. Also Bernkasteler Lay cuvée Christina, first wine made by their daughter, was super good but also very limited. I have not tasted the ’21 doctors as usually those won’t give anything when young.
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They are both in the VDP. Just different VDP.
I opened a '21 Doctor GG in the interest of science. Lots of material, but would up tight.
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Ummm what? Other is in vdp and other in Bernkasteler ring?
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Ah yes.
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