2019 Lafleur, opinion please.

[Jeff_Leve]

I think of Certain de May with it’s history of two old ladies owning the tiny winery and it’s historic underperformance.

Which two old ladies were those?

The DeMay sisters. 1920’s. Look it up.

Do you mean the Robin sisters that owned Lafleur and Le Gay? The Demay family sold the estate in 1925.

[Robert.A.Jr]

Which two old ladies were those?

The DeMay sisters. 1920’s. Look it up.

Do you mean the Robin sisters that owned Lafleur and Le Gay? The Demay family sold the estate in 1925.

Well, Mitch did say 1920s. The Château was owned by the de May family then. Sounds like Mitch doesn’t miss them.

[Jeff_Leve]

The issue with Lafleur is not quality. I have zero doubt quality is off the charts. The issue is time. More than almost any other Bordeaux wine, Lafleur demands time. There is no other right bank wine, IMO, including Petrus and Cheval Blanc, that is so much in need of time to show what it has. A reasonable comparison is to Leoville las Cases. But that wine only costs $200-300 for good recent vintages. Whereas with Lafleur you are paying $700-1100 for top vintages, but the wine is truly a waste to drink in its first 20 years of life. All of which is to say that if you really want to drink Lafleur, I think the best option is (1) buy it at auction, and (2) either settle for good but lesser vintages that cost less and drink earlier (1999, 2004, 2008, 2011, 2012, 2014), or (3) pay a premium for better vintages that are in their prime now (1989, 1990, 1995).

The reality is that of the post-2000 Lafleurs, the only ones that are in the zone now are 2001 (barely), 2002 (not worth the premium IMO), 2003 (ditto), 2007 (haven’t had it but likely to drink well), and 2013 (amazing for the vintage, but made in tiny quantities and not worth the premium). Everything else is too young, IMO. Even the 2004 is just barely waking up, and the 1998 is locked up tight.

While Lafleur takes time, I do not agree with your timeline. It might take 25 years for tannic years like 2000 to reach maturity But I find that the tannins are so ripe, and the fruits are so soft and rich. while I would wait if I owned 2000, they can be enjoyed with great pleasure after a decade. I do not find them locked up tight. But that’ just.

Also I do not find the premium attached to the lesser vintage to merit the price. But in the best vintages, the wine clearly rivals or bests Petrus and there is where the value is found, if one has the money. Again, just my opinion.

[Jeff_Leve]

I suppose I could try to some research on Jeff Leve’s Board or similar, but I always wonder how the tiny producers like Lafleur can afford modern winemaking equipment, testing, bottling, vineyard management, you name it.

Until recently, recent meaning last year, the cellars at Lafleur were quite primitive. And so what? 1982 Lafleur that is a legendary wine that many, if not most people think is the wine of the vintage was made with almost no selection, no new oak and no fancy cellar.

It is the terroir that counts.


No doubt this plays somewhat into the steep price but it cuts both ways-who wants to spend $700 and upwards a bottle for a compromised wine?

What are you talking about? In what way is Lafleur compromised? Can you please explain?

[Jeff_Leve]

Thanks Mark! What do you think about the price?

The price is excellent.

Wouldn’t say the price is excellent based off of two different offers I got for $100 cheaper per bottle.

For those with the money, I do not agree. The price is a steal! In a normal year, the wine is almost impossible to find at future pricing for under 1K.

[Jeff_Leve]

Craig, I don’t know that anyone on this board has tried it. Paging Jeff Leve and Mark Golodetz…

As Jonathan pointed out, Lafleur, along with Petrus and Le Pin did not send samples. That being said, with one of the great terroirs in Bordeaux, extremely conscientious owners and a very good vintage, especially for Pomerol, I have no doubt that 2019 Lafleur is one of the top wines of the vintage.

FWIW, I found the plateau of Pomerol and Pauillac to be the 2 best appellations in 2019.

If the wine is available for this price, if you have the disposable income, you should run and not walk to the store to buy the wine.

[CraigT]

Craig, I don’t know that anyone on this board has tried it. Paging Jeff Leve and Mark Golodetz…

As Jonathan pointed out, Lafleur, along with Petrus and Le Pin did not send samples. That being said, with one of the great terroirs in Bordeaux, extremely conscientious owners and a very good vintage, especially for Pomerol, I have no doubt that 2019 Lafleur is one of the top wines of the vintage.

FWIW, I found the plateau of Pomerol and Pauillac to be the 2 best appellations in 2019.

If the wine is available for this price, if you have the disposable income, you should run and not walk to the store to buy the wine.

Thanks so much for your advice! I pulled the trigger on 3 bottles last night.

[MitchTallan]

I suppose I could try to some research on Jeff Leve’s Board or similar, but I always wonder how the tiny producers like Lafleur can afford modern winemaking equipment, testing, bottling, vineyard management, you name it.

Until recently, recent meaning last year, the cellars at Lafleur were quite primitive. And so what? 1982 Lafleur that is a legendary wine that many, if not most people think is the wine of the vintage was made with almost no selection, no new oak and no fancy cellar.

It is the terroir that counts.


No doubt this plays somewhat into the steep price but it cuts both ways-who wants to spend $700 and upwards a bottle for a compromised wine?

What are you talking about? In what way is Lafleur compromised? Can you please explain?

Jeff, whether you are aware or not, you have a marked tendency to come across as contentious.
You are a wealth of great knowledge that I much appreciate but tone it down on the attacks and differences of opinion please. As others have referenced, you seem to be so in love with the object of your expertise that all objectivity has gone by the wayside. It is my humble op that great wines out of primitive cellars are the result of not only terroir and good vintages but also a good deal of serendipity and good fortune. The traditional methods employed by the winemaker can only carry him/her so far. The “compromise” is that-in my humble opinion-modern winemaking equipment, used judiciously, can maximize (hence “no compromise”) the potential of the wine. When I buy Lynch-Bages, LLC, Cos, and yes, Pontet Canet, I have confidence that bottle variation, as just one example of many potential weaknesses, will be kept to a minimum thanks to their great resources and modern blending techniques of all barrels, foudres, tanks that make the final cut, as just one example. You can wax nostalgic all you want over the glories of past great vintages of wines made with primitive equipment but that does not prove your point and is instead nothing more than anecdotal. I gave an example to make myself clear as to what I meant by “compromise”, Certain de May.

[Brent_S]

These are such great first world problems to have. Whether or not to buy an $800 that won’t show up for 2 years and won’t be at prime for 20 more! Love it

[Peter_Hirsch]

I’d rather buy 1998. Trades around $500 or $600 all in at auction. 21 years along in development vs the 2019.

[Jeff_Leve]

I suppose I could try to some research on Jeff Leve’s Board or similar, but I always wonder how the tiny producers like Lafleur can afford modern winemaking equipment, testing, bottling, vineyard management, you name it.

Until recently, recent meaning last year, the cellars at Lafleur were quite primitive. And so what? 1982 Lafleur that is a legendary wine that many, if not most people think is the wine of the vintage was made with almost no selection, no new oak and no fancy cellar.

It is the terroir that counts.


No doubt this plays somewhat into the steep price but it cuts both ways-who wants to spend $700 and upwards a bottle for a compromised wine?

What are you talking about? In what way is Lafleur compromised? Can you please explain?

Jeff, whether you are aware or not, you have a marked tendency to come across as contentious.
You are a wealth of great knowledge that I much appreciate but tone it down on the attacks and differences of opinion please. As others have referenced, you seem to be so in love with the object of your expertise that all objectivity has gone by the wayside. It is my humble op that great wines out of primitive cellars are the result of not only terroir and good vintages but also a good deal of serendipity and good fortune. The traditional methods employed by the winemaker can only carry him/her so far. The “compromise” is that-in my humble opinion-modern winemaking equipment, used judiciously, can maximize (hence “no compromise”) the potential of the wine. When I buy Lynch-Bages, LLC, Cos, and yes, Pontet Canet, I have confidence that bottle variation, as just one example of many potential weaknesses, will be kept to a minimum thanks to their great resources and modern blending techniques of all barrels, foudres, tanks that make the final cut, as just one example. You can wax nostalgic all you want over the glories of past great vintages of wines made with primitive equipment but that does not prove your point and is instead nothing more than anecdotal. I gave an example to make myself clear as to what I meant by “compromise”, Certain de May.

I am sorry you see my post as anything other than a straight forward question which you answered. I do not want to spend a ton of time on BB sites and prefer to be brief.

Perhaps you do not read many of my posts, and I do not blame you. I can assure you I am not one of those thinking the good old days were better. Today, everyone is making better wine. I cannot think of any estate that has not improved their viticultural practices and in most cases, cellars have been upgraded. That being said, wine is made in the vineyards. Without good terroir and viticultural practices, regardless of how modern your cellars are, you are not going to make great wine.

[Mark_Golodetz]

I’d rather buy 1998. Trades around $500 or $600 all in at auction. 21 years along in development vs the 2019.

Good point, except that this may be the most monolithic concentrated Lafleur I have encountered. The tannins are powerful, and hope the fruit outlasts it.

[Peter_Hirsch]

I’d rather buy 1998. Trades around $500 or $600 all in at auction. 21 years along in development vs the 2019.

Good point, except that this may be the most monolithic concentrated Lafleur I have encountered. The tannins are powerful, and hope the fruit outlasts it.

I own it, haven’t tried it. It sits in the case, waiting for maybe 2048!