Recent vintages of Moulin-Saint-Georges, maybe? It’s a rather cool limestone terroir in the same sector rendered in quite a restrained style, at least!
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Are you saying you do not think current vintages of PL will not last?
William… Isn’t that what the terroir gives? BB has less Merlot, and they have Cabernet Sauvignon in the plantings along with more limestone in the soil and it is a warmer site, while TSC has more clay, with a cooler terroir and more Merlot.
I am a big fan of both wines, but I find the differences attributed more to the terroir and varietals than to man.
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Not at all. I was admiring this wine’s longevity. Unfortunately, I am not experienced enough to predict the lifespan of the newer vintages. Hope they will be fully enjoyable earlier and last for many years.
By the way, I really like your website. A wealth of great information. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Interesting.
I find the TSC heavily manipulated.
It’s not a wine for you. In what way is the wine manipulated ?
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Thanks for the nice words. It’s always nice to hear.
But I’m curious. Why do you think or have doubts that younger vintages of PL will not age as well as previous years?
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I think it’s a good thing when a wine is accessible earlier. I am just not sure that these wines will have the same longevity, before fading, as the more “classic” ones. I am thinking of the duration of the “zone of optimal enjoyment”. I am curious about your opinion.
I don’t really think so. Certainly, they are different sites, but the hand of man is important. Even if it’s a different site, Bellefont Belcier is right between Tertre Roteboeuf and Larcis Ducasse on the same slope with very similar soils, and right there you have three very, very different wines from similar terroirs. And just look at the change at Troplong Mondot from Rolland to Duclos: the terroir didn’t change at all, but the wine was transformed. So yes, I do think that who makes the wine makes a big difference in this and almost every case.
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I fail to understand how this point is not comprehended by now. Jeffois and I have debated this very issue a few times over the last ten years. We have 20+ years of data points in Bordeaux, as these modernist consultants move into and out of the various Chateau. Same wine, same terroir, but different winemaker or consultant, and the wine changes fundamentally. Rolland and his ilk have left a trail of damage in Bordeaux, especially in St Emilion, glad to see some Chateau have realized this and are moving on.
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Well yes, absolutely. Terroir doesn’t decide when to pick, ABV levels or how much new oak to use! Did Figeac up sticks when Rolland took over and move to Pavie? The style of a wine is decided by the people who make it. Luckily, the all-important “market”, which was the excuse foisted on us for all the “modern” styled wines in the past, has apparently moved on, hence the more “classical” (I don’t know why we don’t just say “normal”) styled wines today, leaving the “modern” ones looking increasingly anachronistic.
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Which is exactly what a recent review by William Kelley said of Rolland’s own wine, the name escapes me now.
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I think the choices of the team are dictated in large part by the terroir. There are exceptions, of course. But as a rule, at the top estates, I find the choices are chosen by what the vineyard and terroir offer.
BB and Larcis Ducasse are close but not really the same soil. You find more chalk and limestone at Larcis, so you get a saltier expression and you find more clay at BB, which makes it a bit richer.
With TSC, most of the wines from those soils east of the village offer a deep, rich tasting experience. The terroir is cooler and there is more clay. TSC. Laroque, Barde Haut, Faugeres, Clos Dubreuil, Rocheyron, and others, while different, are all deep, opulent wines.
I am aware, some folks on here, are not fans of those wines. But I think they are all fabulous expressions of their terroir. That’s just how I see it.
I think my opinion on this is well stated on my site, and in my posts here. There is no reason, nor evidence that the best wines will not age as long or as well as with previous vintages.
What vintages have you tasted that make you wonder?
What I was told in Bordeaux by those that live and make wine there is that you are supposed to drink the off vintages and seconds early. But I find it hard to do in practice, you need a lot of storage and it’s hard to avoid loading up on a wine that you think will be great. Some of your lead pencil might be muted.
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Or 20 if it’s grippy. Dipping back into more 00’s this festivus season … most are drinking well now but that wasn’t consistently the case 4 years ago.
I can’t tell if you are surprised or disappointed? If you are new to the bdx affliction, you need to be aware of a few things on young wines early taste: Bottle variation (used to be a big thing, I don’t have enough 16/19 experience to say if it still is), bottle shock on shipping (frankly I think this is more likely on Burg than Bdx, but it’s hard to prove). However, sudden shutdown of the wines used to be very typical especially on tannic backward styles. Re-read the reviews and pay close attention to the dates tasted, and any notes of retaste. Read between the lines - no reviewer is going to write “this wine is undrinkable paint stripper now, but will be fantastic in 20-30 years” although that is what they are thinking. NM pretty much says that about this wine. However if a lot earlier tastes were more open, that is very indicative of sudden shutdown. You can combat by aggressive decant, don’t be shy to hold the bottle upside down in a jug and pour it back in the bottle or second decanter, NM gave another hint with his 2 hour decant. If you can coax some nose out of it and the fruit is all packed in, it may work out great. Or not, such is the afflication.
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Jeff, doubts are rarely based on the facts, but on the feelings. My feeling is based on the earlier maturity of the wines. I suspect that earlier maturity might mean an earlier decline. Even if this is true, it’s not a bad thing. I’d rather be able to enjoy the wine sooner. I understand that it is impossible to generalize; so much depends on particular vintages and the winemaking.
I love the idea that the winemakers thought about it long and hard, and started making choices based on the ridge of limestone in the north east corner of the vineyard. They didn’t. For the most part, it was how best to profit from Parker preferences which equaled points which equaled money. Now Parker is out of the picture, and critics go for less formulaic wines, and guess what? They are dialing back. Perhaps I am being slightly cynical, but having tasted so many early wines from this century, where the terroir had all been obliterated in the pursuit of points, I can’t help wondering where you find the “marvelous expression of terroir” in wines like Cos 2009. I just can’t see it.
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Thank you sir, just ordered 6 of these.
Great note on it!
Was not surprised or disappointed. Just an observation. Being “newer” to the world of Bordeaux, my take which means nothing is that the weather and to a lesser degree soil plays a part as to why Bordeaux takes so long to develop rather than other parts of the world where wines can be more approachable young. Patience and self control with Bordeaux.
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