2018 Red Burgundy: Actually A Subpar Vintage?

[YLee]

2018 Duroche lsj vv was excellent after recorking it for several days.

[RyanC]

I also see very little similarity between 18 and 15; 15s will require a lot of time and have a lot of structure, unlike most 18s.


Hmmmm…vintage comparison. Interesting and let us have a look of what Meadows said :


Here are the comments by Meadows of 2015 :

In the Côte de Beaune 2015 is the best vintage since 1999. It is not however without a few concerns that I will address though as a broad-sweeping generality, the 2015 reds are wines to search out and acquire. Moreover, it is a vintage that is excellent from top to bottom and to underscore the point, in 17 years of writing Burghound Issues, I have never had more recommended Top Value wines in the Burghound Selection chart. To be sure, it’s great at the top as well but if ever there was a vintage to explore for value, it’s this one. And of course it naturally follows that when the bottom of the appellation hierarchy is exceptional, it’s no stretch to imagine that the top portion is exceptional as well.


Here are the comments by Meadows of 2018 :

So, as with every vintage, the two questions for readers that take precedence over everything else always are: should you buy the 2018s and if so, how much of them? The best wines are impressively ripe, bold, concentrated and powerful with reasonable to reasonable plus levels of alcohol and just enough supporting acidity. While it’s true that they are atypical, the freshness and terroir transparency are better than one might imagine given the growing season that produced them and certainly better than say 2003 or 2009. They tend to have moderately firm to extremely firm tannic spines with the all-important element of balance, even if the majority tend to display at least some perceptible backend warmth.

The most eye-popping line in either is Meadows’s “certainly better [freshness and terroir transparency] … than 2009.” I’m not sure that’s true (and if true, it’s probably hyperbole), but if it is even partially true, 2018s will be splendid. I very, very much like how '09s have turned out.

FWIW, I do agree with those who find '09, '15, and '18 very different. To me, '15 is a truly monumental vintage that will go down as one of the best of the last few decades. But it will require a lot of time to fully get there.

[Jay_Miller]

For my palate and based on the few wines I’ve tried yes, a subpar vintage.

[Andrew_K]

I’ve enjoyed most of what I’ve had, but not as much as other vintages. I just had a couple of 18 reds from Henri Germain (Chassagne-Montrachet and Meursault) and was surprised by the green streak on the finish in both. Naturally CdB reds aren’t top by any means anyway.

As a whole I have enjoyed 14 and 17 reds generally more than 18. I think heterogeneous is definitely spot on. You have to pick and choose to find the gems.

[YLee]

I also see very little similarity between 18 and 15; 15s will require a lot of time and have a lot of structure, unlike most 18s.


Hmmmm…vintage comparison. Interesting and let us have a look of what Meadows said :


Here are the comments by Meadows of 2015 :

In the Côte de Beaune 2015 is the best vintage since 1999. It is not however without a few concerns that I will address though as a broad-sweeping generality, the 2015 reds are wines to search out and acquire. Moreover, it is a vintage that is excellent from top to bottom and to underscore the point, in 17 years of writing Burghound Issues, I have never had more recommended Top Value wines in the Burghound Selection chart. To be sure, it’s great at the top as well but if ever there was a vintage to explore for value, it’s this one. And of course it naturally follows that when the bottom of the appellation hierarchy is exceptional, it’s no stretch to imagine that the top portion is exceptional as well.


Here are the comments by Meadows of 2018 :

So, as with every vintage, the two questions for readers that take precedence over everything else always are: should you buy the 2018s and if so, how much of them? The best wines are impressively ripe, bold, concentrated and powerful with reasonable to reasonable plus levels of alcohol and just enough supporting acidity. While it’s true that they are atypical, the freshness and terroir transparency are better than one might imagine given the growing season that produced them and certainly better than say 2003 or 2009. They tend to have moderately firm to extremely firm tannic spines with the all-important element of balance, even if the majority tend to display at least some perceptible backend warmth.

The most eye-popping line in either is Meadows’s “certainly better [freshness and terroir transparency] … than 2009.” I’m not sure that’s true (and if true, it’s probably hyperbole), but if it is even partially true, 2018s will be splendid. I very, very much like how '09s have turned out.

FWIW, I do agree with those who find '09, '15, and '18 very different. To me, '15 is a truly monumental vintage that will go down as one of the best of the last few decades. But it will require a lot of time to fully get there.

Not saying you are wrong. Personal preference, I like the '16 more than '15

[Jay_Miller]

The most eye-popping line in either is Meadows’s “certainly better [freshness and terroir transparency] … than 2009.” I’m not sure that’s true (and if true, it’s probably hyperbole), but if it is even partially true, 2018s will be splendid. I very, very much like how '09s have turned out.

FWIW, I do agree with those who find '09, '15, and '18 very different. To me, '15 is a truly monumental vintage that will go down as one of the best of the last few decades. But it will require a lot of time to fully get there.

Not saying you are wrong. Personal preference, I like the '16 more than '15

Personal preference, big +1

[RyanC]

I also see very little similarity between 18 and 15; 15s will require a lot of time and have a lot of structure, unlike most 18s.


Hmmmm…vintage comparison. Interesting and let us have a look of what Meadows said :


Here are the comments by Meadows of 2015 :

In the Côte de Beaune 2015 is the best vintage since 1999. It is not however without a few concerns that I will address though as a broad-sweeping generality, the 2015 reds are wines to search out and acquire. Moreover, it is a vintage that is excellent from top to bottom and to underscore the point, in 17 years of writing Burghound Issues, I have never had more recommended Top Value wines in the Burghound Selection chart. To be sure, it’s great at the top as well but if ever there was a vintage to explore for value, it’s this one. And of course it naturally follows that when the bottom of the appellation hierarchy is exceptional, it’s no stretch to imagine that the top portion is exceptional as well.


Here are the comments by Meadows of 2018 :

So, as with every vintage, the two questions for readers that take precedence over everything else always are: should you buy the 2018s and if so, how much of them? The best wines are impressively ripe, bold, concentrated and powerful with reasonable to reasonable plus levels of alcohol and just enough supporting acidity. While it’s true that they are atypical, the freshness and terroir transparency are better than one might imagine given the growing season that produced them and certainly better than say 2003 or 2009. They tend to have moderately firm to extremely firm tannic spines with the all-important element of balance, even if the majority tend to display at least some perceptible backend warmth.

The most eye-popping line in either is Meadows’s “certainly better [freshness and terroir transparency] … than 2009.” I’m not sure that’s true (and if true, it’s probably hyperbole), but if it is even partially true, 2018s will be splendid. I very, very much like how '09s have turned out.

FWIW, I do agree with those who find '09, '15, and '18 very different. To me, '15 is a truly monumental vintage that will go down as one of the best of the last few decades. But it will require a lot of time to fully get there.

Not saying you are wrong. Personal preference, I like the '16 more than '15

I love ‘16 too! And I even own more of it than ‘15. But if I had to bet, I think ‘15 will slightly edge out ‘16 in the long run.

[Brian_Lynch]

From what I have popped, '19s are better to my taste.

[m_ristev]

i am sure there are some great wines in 18, but i can’t recall having had so many pinot that tasted like bad syrah…even from producers i typically adore. i don’t recall any wines quite like that from 09 or 15. the worst offender i recall from 15 was a claire naudin orchis mascula that was too sweet and jammy, however it was nothing compared to the 18 pataille bourgonge which did not at all resemble the grape it was supposedly made from. 19 is a different story all together and seems quite promising from what little i have tasted; a charlopin-tissier marsannay recently was fantastic.

[Dav1d_Sawyer]

i am sure there are some great wines in 18, but i can’t recall having had so many pinot that tasted like bad syrah…even from producers i typically adore. i don’t recall any wines quite like that from 09 or 15. the worst offender i recall from 15 was a claire naudin orchis mascula that was too sweet and jammy, however it was nothing compared to the 18 pataille bourgonge which did not at all resemble the grape it was supposedly made from. 19 is a different story all together and seems quite promising from what little i have tasted; a charlopin-tissier marsannay recently was fantastic.

The ripest I’ve had is the Bruno Clair Marsannay. Super jammy but nice to drink casually. I enjoyed it much more than the Bouchard, probably because my expectations were a lot lower.

[Greg_K]

I think 18 is a lot better than 03; I would align it more closely with 15 and 09.

I think 15 and 09 are very different vintages. I also see very little similarity between 18 and 15; 15s will require a lot of time and have a lot of structure, unlike most 18s. I’m very wary of simply comparing vintages on the basis of them being “hot vintages”.

I meant in quality.

The quality between 2015 and 2018 is extremely different!

[Greg_K]

The most eye-popping line in either is Meadows’s “certainly better [freshness and terroir transparency] … than 2009.” I’m not sure that’s true (and if true, it’s probably hyperbole), but if it is even partially true, 2018s will be splendid. I very, very much like how '09s have turned out.

FWIW, I do agree with those who find '09, '15, and '18 very different. To me, '15 is a truly monumental vintage that will go down as one of the best of the last few decades. But it will require a lot of time to fully get there.

Not saying you are wrong. Personal preference, I like the '16 more than '15

Personal preference, big +1

Same. That said, I think the good 2015s will be splendid, but it’s a more heterogeneous vintage.

[David_Bu3ker]

Sorry, but if 2018 had happened in the 1980s or even in the 1990s, people would be falling all over themselves.

Spoiled geeks.

[Peter_Chiu]

Jay and Yong said :

**Not saying you are wrong. Personal preference, I like the '16 more than '15
**Personal preference, big +1

Thank for the interesting comments.

If I understanding correctly, you are talking that you prefer the same win from the same producer from vintage 2016 than from vintage 2015.

I am sensing that most of the reds (which I had owned from vintage 2015) are starting to enter the close-down stage, so I am not planing to open any for pair-tasting with 2016 vs 2015. I loaded up myself with 2015 and did not buy too many 2016 red as 2016 reds were generally more pricey for sure than 2015 and also due to the natural lowest yield (due to the poor weather conditions) for the last many years.

BUT…being said : I agree with Greg that the 2015 (from my preferred producers) will be splendid down in the road in few years, let say : in 2025…

[David_Bu3ker]

BUT…being said : I agree with Greg that the 2015 (from my preferred producers) will be splendid down in the road in few years, let say : in 2025…

Nope. 10 years from now Burgs geeks will be complaining that the 2015s will never come around and are overrated.

It’s not the wines. It’s the Burg geeks. Never, ever satisfied.

[Peter_Chiu]

i am sure there are some great wines in 18, but i can’t recall having had so many pinot that tasted like bad syrah…even from producers i typically adore. i don’t recall any wines quite like that from 09 or 15. the worst offender i recall from 15 was a claire naudin orchis mascula that was too sweet and jammy, however it was nothing compared to the 18 pataille bourgonge which did not at all resemble the grape it was supposedly made from. 19 is a different story all together and seems quite promising from what little i have tasted; a charlopin-tissier marsannay recently was fantastic.

Thanks for tip as I used to buy some ***orchis mascula **** and her other reds. BUT…stopped since vintage 2014 as they were getting pricey.

Dom. N-Ferrand - C-de-N- Viola Odarata 14 ($78)
Dom. N-Ferrand - H. C-de-B Orchis muscula 14 (12256062 $51)
Dom. N-Ferrand - C-de-Nuits village 14 (11668698 $34)
Dom. N-Ferrand - H. C-de-B Orchis muscula 13 (12256062 $51)

[Brady_Daniels]

Sorry, but if 2018 had happened in the 1980s or even in the 1990s, people would be falling all over themselves.

Spoiled geeks.

If the 2018 vintage occurred anytime before 2003, it probably would have been just like 2003. The growers and winemakers wouldn’t have been ready for that vintage. Some might have done well, but there’d be a lot more pruney wines.

I think it’s reasonable for folks who like traditional burgundy to find 18-20 over-ripe for their tastes.

[David_Bu3ker]

Doesn’t change the end result. Burg geeks are IMO spoiled and entitled.

[Dan_Kravitz]

I’ve been buying Bourgogne to Grand Cru red burgs from 2018 and have opened maybe half a dozen assorted Bourgogne and village wines from good producers. The results have been mixed with some being ripe but with plenty of acid and others being way over the top. On Thanksgiving I opened my first 1er, the Bouchard (Domaine) Volnay Taillepieds. It was shockingly ripe, flabby, and one dimensional. The ripe fruit was also shrill with a hollow midpalate.

I know everyone said the 2018 vintage was heterogeneous but are others finding it to be less and less decent the more you taste? I’ve seen some rumblings here and there but also recognize I haven’t tasted a wide variety of producers yet. After this wine and a few other experiences, I think I’m officially done buying 2018. 2017 and 2019 are much more consistent and built for the long term.

Do not have the time to read the whole thread, but FWIW, I was able to very briefly visit Burgundy last May-June on a professional buying trip. I visited 7 growers in the Cote de Beaune. I selected 8 wines from 3 growers to present to my customers. 6 of them were 2019s, 2 of them were 2017s. I tasted 2018s at every visit. I was not impressed enough to make any commitments.

Dan Kravitz

[Dan_Kravitz]

Doesn’t change the end result. Burg geeks are IMO spoiled and entitled.

With all due respect to a favorite poster, I disagree (again, not having read the full thread).

Burg geeks are regularly subjected to the pain of paying ~$50 - $$$$$$$ and getting wine from magnificent to mediocre to miserable. So much for spoiled.
They are also entitled to pay mind-boggling prices with no guarantee of quality, much less value.

Dan Kravitz