Did u end up tasting larrivet HB?
I saw some serious love for this wine…I thought '08 was real good one of my favorite wines from that vintage so far
Well it seems like too soon of a response. Only a portion of futures have been offered so far, with many more to come. I understand if the response for first growths were flat, but there’s a lot of interesting Bordeaux to come and I’m sure many consumers are waiting for them all to arrive before making any selections. I’m still waiting for Leoville Barton and a few others before I make any real purchases. However I know I’m going to buy, I’m just not sure what and in what amount yet. However there’s no real decision to be made yet as I haven’t seen everything offered yet.
Julian… It is not because I say. It is because the market says so. Assuming you want Bordeaux, you either buy futures or back stock. The way most people see it is, they measure the price and quality of the current futures offerings against what they can pay for physical stock that can be purchased and opened or cellared today. A price that is no longer available does not factor into that equation.
As for 2005, I did great. I bought early and while I have not checked prices for years, I’m willing to bet I’m up quite a bit. The same goes for most 2009 wines I bought. With the exception of 2005 Haut Brion, which was $375, (try finding it at that price today) I have not bought 1st Growths since 2004. As a group, the First Growths have fared poorly as a future.
The current auction price here for Talbot 08 is 33€…even if the 2014 is as good as you suggest, is it seriously 30% better than a wine in bottle, which you can try before loading up with, as opposed to an embryonic sample which may or may not resemble the finished article?
That choice is up to you. For me, Talbot is not a wine to purchase as a future, unless you want special formats. They make a lot of it, and it’s not an investment wine. FWIW, while you might have found a small auction selling the wine for 33 E, the average price for 2008 Talbot is between $40 & $50, according to Christies and Acker. 2014 Talbot sells for less. That does not mean it’s a wine to buy as a future, or not. Just letting you know what is taking place.
I’m seeing offers in my inbox for back vintages, but not as many as I would expect. That being said, I think the most prominent glut is still in 11/12/13 which even if currency effects make cheaper, seem like a hard sell to the enthusiast with their own cellar. Those might be more useful to those who need to pour a lot of wine, where the label sort of counts, but price counts even more – like a restaurant chain with a dozen bottles in their by the glass selections.
Perhaps as the supply chain gets motivated and starts migrating the wines stateside more will show up.
Actually, the First Growths, with the exception of Haut Brion have probably been the most successful offerings yet.
Then what are retailers basing their reaction on? Seems odd to me. For what it’s worth, the 2014 Calon Segur has already sold out at Bordeaux Index (first they’ve sold out of) and K&L has sold through a good amount of their first offering. (Now only showing >36 in stock). Just bought a couple bottles just in case they’re sold out in the near term. Jeff, you seem to be very well researched, was this a lower production year for Calon Segur or is there just a lot of interest?
Marc,
My kids spring break coincides with EP. I kinda have my priority straight. I should check out larrivet HB.
It’s simple. Make a good wine. Sell it at a fair price. Allow the opportunity for some profit potential to the consumer and your wine is going to sell.
2014 Haut Bailly popped up on K&L today. $60. Seems like a very fair price given its universal acclaim. Purchased a couple, but may have to re-visit in the future for a couple more. Looks like this is the most affordable Haut Bailly on the market that I can find on WS (with one small exception for the 2013). I know Neal had a very favorable note on the 2003 just last week and there’s quite a few posters who really like this estate.
Yea, I may wade into the waters as well. Pricing is quite decent on some estates. Senejac at $12.99, that’s an easy case purchase to enjoy over the next 10+ years. Liking Talbot, Haut Bailly, Clerc Milon, Gruard Larose, Sociando Mallet. And the emails keep coming. My local guy has great prices (b21).
I really thought I was done buying Bordeaux after 2010 - and age thing, not a quality thing - but I waded into some 2012s and 2014s look attractive.
So, about pricing…does anyone know what Neal Martin is tweeting about here?
“covert discounting behind the scenes” – is that a business-as-usual thing? I know there’s discussion about how transparent the futures market is or isn’t, and I don’t know how that fits in.
Glen,
I have mentioned a number of times regarding the exchange rate which clearly demonstrates that the chateau owners are finally admitting the importance of US market. As I recall the Mouton came out at 249 euro and a few days later, the Haut Brion came out at 239 euro to compensate for the stronger Euro. The strong $ this year enables Bordeaux to actually increase the price in Euro compare to the 13 yet the wines are much cheaper in the states. Then again, Neal could have meant something entirely different.
Maybe if the trade takes some 14, they can get some 11 extra cheap prices.
Best guess: Some Chateaux could be discounting 2014 futures (with protected pricing) in order to increase the margins for retailers in order to off-set the retailers carrying 2011-13 vintages.
I don’t see how Bordeaux can keep pricing a secret. It’s probably the most transparent region in that sense, even if the most manipulated. Or maybe they have a rebate/kickback scheme, but even those tend to eventually leak out. to wit: Who goes shopping for a car nowadays without being well aware of how much manufacturer holdback is available?
covert=exchange rate $ vs euro.
Who does everyone recommend for futures in the West?
K&L has a great selection, but on some wines they seem to be $2 - $5 higher, which is annoying. Wally’s has good prices, but I recall a past thread here where some people had issues with them (i.e. them cancelling orders). Wine Exchange and Grand Vin also have some selection, but they unfortunately require minimum quantities of each bottle. I will probably pull the trigger on a bunch of singles of classified growths, just don’t know who to go with.
Alot depends on where u live also…here in Orlando higher end bordeaux is wall paper
…so it is only matter of time before it is discounted less than release prices…I just have to sit and wait
Robert, JJ Buckley carries some 2014 Bordeaux futures. You’ll have to contact them in order to be assigned a rep, but they have a pricing sheet that goes beyond what’s shown on their website. Honestly, I just went with K&L knowing that my wines will arrive in the best possible condition. In addition, tracking the wines when they arrive and arranging shipping should be easy as well. Certainly worth a few extra dollars on some of the wines.
K&L does ask for a premium, but I’ve had far less problems with them compared to any other vendor for futures. I suppose part of the premium is to reflect the ability to order a single. I’ve probably one way or another used ~20 vendors for futures over the decades. Their web site and account order history are also good.