2011 Maison Ilan

[CWun]

@Charlie Fu

@Brady Daniels

Just chill, C. You judge Ray, and others judge you. What outcome were you hoping for?

I think Cary needs a Howard Cooper in his corner

maybe a bill klapp

[CWun]

@Brady Daniels

Just chill, C. You judge Ray, and others judge you. What outcome were you hoping for?

I don’t mind the judging. What else is the internet for?

[Mark_C]

@Craig Gleason

I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

Thanks, Hal! Now, can you please open the pod bay doors, I need to move a foudre.

[Paul_Jaouen]

@Howard Cooper

The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

The incentive should be to bottle when ready. If I recall correctly, Galloni ripped the 2009 Lignier wines for being kept in barrel too long. I have no clue about Ray’s wines. I am just saying that longer barrel aging is not always a good thing.

[billnanson]

@Paul Jaouen

@Howard Cooper

The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

The incentive should be to bottle when ready. If I recall correctly, Galloni ripped the 2009 Lignier wines for being kept in barrel too long. I have no clue about Ray’s wines. I am just saying that longer barrel aging is not always a good thing.

But Kellen also told me that she felt pressured to show them, and much sooner after bottling than she wished - based on the results, she clearly should have just said no. As Ray does I never did get my mixed case of 09s, so can’t make up my own mind on that…

I’ve drunk Ray’s 2010 Corbeaux and I’m 100% sure it would have been better if he’d forced the malo a little and bottled (at least!) 6 months earlier. But it’s still a good wine, and those 10s were far from bad value…

[Craig_G]

@M Champney

@Craig Gleason

I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

Thanks, Hal! Now, can you please open the pod bay doors, I need to move a foudre.

I can’t allow you to jeopardize this mission, Mark. I’ll take care of the foudre myself.

[scamhi]

I received a refund for the 2010 corbeaux and my case of 2011’s purchased and not delivered. It took Ray Walker 3 weeks to make the wire transfer of my money plus 20%. However he did short me $30.00 on the 20%.

Good luck to everyone that is still wanting those wines. I called it.

[Corey_N]

@scamhi

I received a refund for the 2010 corbeaux and my case of 2011’s purchased and not delivered. It took Ray Walker 3 weeks to make the wire transfer of my money plus 20%. However he did short me $30.00 on the 20%.

Good luck to everyone that is still wanting those wines. I called it.

Just a guess, he didn’t factor in the cost of the wire.

[Dale_Bowers]

I don’t get the angst here folks. I have a case or two of 2011 burgundy on pre-order, none of which has been delivered.

[Peter_C]

@scamhi

I received a refund for the 2010 corbeaux and my case of 2011’s purchased and not delivered. It took Ray Walker 3 weeks to make the wire transfer of my money plus 20%. However he did short me $30.00 on the 20%.

Good luck to everyone that is still wanting those wines. I called it.

Hopefully he delivers the Barolo, Champagne and Sauternes I ordered from him

[Howard_Cooper]

@Paul Jaouen

@Howard Cooper

The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

The incentive should be to bottle when ready. If I recall correctly, Galloni ripped the 2009 Lignier wines for being kept in barrel too long. I have no clue about Ray’s wines. I am just saying that longer barrel aging is not always a good thing.

Paul, of course you are correct. When to bottle is one of hundreds of judgments a winemaker makes that makes a wine good or bad. Ray could be making a good decision or a poor one in this or any other of a number of instances. I was not suggesting it is necessarily a good decision, just that I cannot find anything shady in a decision to bottle later, as the OP suggested.

[Alan_Rath]

Cary, why didn’t you bring this up at dinner? I could have assured you your wine is safe (and tastes very good), and saved a lot of silliness on this thread

[Ed_Murray]

Cary, or anyone else, has every right to question where the wines are, especially when bottling and or shipping was previously promised. I mean, after all, it IS 2014. Having lived through the Hospice debacle and a few empty promises by Premier Cru I completely empathize with him. I once purchased some wine as a gift and was promised delivery in November, then early December, then January… whoops!

In business, communication is important, especially in todays electronic society.

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Merrill Lindquist

@Howard Cooper

The incentive is to bottle earlier. Wine takes up space at a winery. A lot of wineries bottle based on room - getting room for the next vintage. Also, wine evaporates some in barrel. That is why wineries top up (or add marbles or something to the barrel). So, the longer you wait to bottle, the less wine you have to sell.

I am not sure what the incentives are to holding up bottling other than an artistic judgment that the wine is not ready. Would someone please tell what “larger story” they think is going on here.

I think these threads will teach other wineries the lesson to never discuss what they are doing and why. Anyone who sees what Ray has gone through for being open and then changing his mind (or whatever) would never utter a public word about their plans.

So, what you guys have accomplished is to drive Ray from wine boards and to discourage any other winery from being public about their thought processes. Congratulations.

Howard - I don’t think it is that clear cut. And I am not talking about Ray Walker and Maison Ilan, specifically. I am talking about what it is for wineries to be involved in these public forums.

On the positive side: wineries here (and on the other boards) mostly receive respect. Publicity. Connections with potential customers. Connections with people who share our passion/interest in wine - after all, most of us wineries are also (as people) consumers, geeks, collectors and into all things wine. Not all of us, but I would say most of us. And for me one of the largest pluses: we get to meet and develop relationships with incredible people from so many different places.

But the negatives to being transparent, available, and for sharing our thoughts and methods is that what we do, as a winery (and sometimes privately, as an individual), is leave ourselves open to perhaps more discussion than we intended, more criticism than we hoped for, and the occasional onslaught of judgement that cuts to the core. Sometimes there are people on these boards who appear to “cheerlead” too much for their favorite wineries or labels. Or, the inverse, tend to display something that can feel like they have an axe to grind.

I say it is all part of it. Participation on wine boards is, for everyone, - wineries included - voluntary. If it detracts from your business or your own sense of well-being, then it is time to re-evaluate that participation.

Well-considered and well-said, Merrill…

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@CWun

@Charlie Fu

@Brady Daniels

Just chill, C. You judge Ray, and others judge you. What outcome were you hoping for?

I think Cary needs a Howard Cooper in his corner

maybe a bill klapp

I am here for you, lad. I am Burgess Meredith to your Sly Stallone in these matters. I am just spread a little thin on beating dead horses at the moment, and I have no dog is this hunt and no Maison Ilan wines on order. And let’s face it, Cary, as dead horses go, Ray Walker is no Bob Parker. Parker keeps sticking his hoof into his mouth. He is the Mr. Ed of talking dead horses!

[Anthony_Hall]

Bill, spit out that hoof. I would much rather read your posts on life in Italy.

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Anthony Hall

Bill, spit out that hoof. I would much rather read your posts on life in Italy.

Parker’s hoof, Anthony, Parker’s hoof, and his mouth. Zampa di maiale is the only hoof allowed in my mouth, unless, of course, one counts osso buco. I cannot write only on Italy, because then I would be banishing myself to Epicurean Exploits!

[John_E]

<yawwwwn…>

[Richard_Malloy]

FWIW, I’m still awaiting 2011 allocations from several producers (and I went very short on the vintage), none of whom are Maison Ilan. Just today, I received a notice from my favorite retailer that the Lignier-Michelot was finally in. It was “due” late October/early November 2013, but as frequently happens (I think) that date slipped away and now it’s February 2014.

I never received any updates - from Virgile or anyone in the distribution chain - until notice of arrival came today. Should I be ripping Virgile or his distribution chain new assholes right about now? I mean, after all, there was an expectation of an Oct/Nov arrival. Which hitherto I considered little more than an estimate. Until now, of course. Now that I know differently. Gyah, what a mark I am!

Should I be starting a thread regarding every pending delivery I have that’s beyond the arrival date? Is that the way we do it now? I can start with something like "Finally the '11 Lignier-Michelots - wtf Virgile, been sittin on yer ass all winter?" 'cause of course I now know one must assume treachery in situations like this.

And just wait 'til I get to those jerks at Valdespino, also a supposed November delivery. I had every intention of drinking some 1842 20 Year Old Oloroso VOS back in December. I’ll never get that night back. It was perfect for oloroso. And now I sit here looking stupid, just another putz with no fookin sherry.

[Ed_Murray]

@Richard Malloy

FWIW, I’m still awaiting 2011 allocations from several producers (and I went very short on the vintage), none of whom are Maison Ilan. Just today, I received a notice from my favorite retailer that the Lignier-Michelot was finally in. It was “due” late October/early November 2013, but as frequently happens (I think) that date slipped away and now it’s February 2014.

I never received any updates - from Virgile or anyone in the distribution chain - until notice of arrival came today. Should I be ripping Virgile or his distribution chain new assholes right about now? I mean, after all, there was an expectation of an Oct/Nov arrival. Which hitherto I considered little more than an estimate. Until now, of course. Now that I know differently. Gyah, what a mark I am!

Should I be starting a thread regarding every pending delivery I have that’s beyond the arrival date? Is that the way we do it now? I can start with something like "Finally the '11 Lignier-Michelots - wtf Virgile, been sittin on yer ass all winter?" 'cause of course I now know one must assume treachery in situations like this.

And just wait 'til I get to those jerks at Valdespino, also a supposed November delivery. I had every intention of drinking some 1842 20 Year Old Oloroso VOS back in December. I’ll never get that night back. It was perfect for oloroso. And now I sit here looking stupid, just another putz with no fookin sherry.

So your tolerance is different than others. You are neither hero nor villain, you’re just another guy with an opinion.