In the past when I was new to wine drinking I would buy a lot of wines based on Parker and other opinions only to find that I’m now stuck with wine that I don’t like. Now what I do is wait to buy wine, since I never drink young wines anymore I wait to see notes on certain producers and if people I trust like the wine then I’ll buy a bottle and see for myself. I won’t drink a cdp from 2010 and other than the 08 Pegau and 06 Donjon I won’t drink anything as young as an 04.
FWIW, I agree with Dan’s impression of the '10 Vieux Donjon. Maybe it will integrate in five years, but I don’t want to take the risk. I have had more positive early impressions of other vintages such as '05, and I also am big on '10 in CdP in general.
I bought a few bottles of this myself, Dan. your note doesn’t give me a lot of hope about it. I had CdP’s a dozen years ago at release, and myabe they were not ‘ready’ per se, but I would never have described a good one as a hot mess.
I did but a bunch of 06 Vieux Telegraphe after I opened a 10 year old 2000 VT that was wonderful. People told me it was made in a similar style. I have had it twice and have been underwhelmed each time. However, I am freely able to put that off to being too young- there was nothing wrong with the wine, it just wasn’t giving anything. So, it needs more time, I know. However, had it been a hot alcoholic mess, I would not be at all hopeful.
I opened both the '10 Vieux Donjon and Télégraphe La Crau recently and the Télégraphe was significantly better. It needed 3-4 hours of air to come around but the Donjon never really did. I just assumed it needed more time AND just wasn’t as good. Didn’t think it was a bad wine, definitely pleasant but just wrapped a bit tighter. Thought it was still fine wine, and around 90 points, but that’s a disappointment given the hype… Time will tell I guess, but this isn’t one to enjoy now.
Scratching my head here, along with some of the others on this thread. I though the 2010 Donjon was pretty fabulous, and I am not one who enjoys the riper styles of CdP that have become prevalent in recent years. My note: very nice deep dark meaty plum blackberry fruit bit brooding flavorful peppery med tannins ex structure and balance less ripe than many others in the vintage. I buy almost no CdP any more (outside of VT, Beaucastel, Charvin), but I bought some 2010 Vieux Donjon. That’s not to say there might not be odd bottles, and obviously taste preferences differ. BTW, I think 56 degrees is much too cold to drink any red wine, but I assume it warmed in the glass considerably.
I thought this was a bruiser and couldn’t finish it. That said, I attributed my reaction mostly to the year; it just seemed very tightly wound to me and did not strike me, however, as a mess. It was in the style of Donjon - just much more of it. Maybe that is wishful thinking, but I just put the box in the corner and will revisit in 5 years.
I did have the same reaction as the original poster - that I remember drinking the mid/late 90 and early 00’s Donjons much earlier. But I also attributed it to being older now and a more sensitive to alcohol (and general bruiser wines). I think of the recent vintages, that 06 is the most similar to the earlier style although, of course, it is not as good of a year for Donjon as the 98, 99, or 01. I know people will disagree with me about 99, but my bottles have been very good.
Agree that the 2010 Vieux Telegraphe is approachable and quite enjoyable now, with some air.
I was actually on the fence of trying another but instead opted to buy a bottle of VT to try.
I’ve been unable to determine whether the vinification (historically and traditionally 75% Grenache, 10% Syrah, 10% Mourvedre and 5% Cinsault, partially de-stemmed, aged for 6 months in cement tank followed by 12 months in neutral foudres, no super-cuvees) or vineyard practices have changed under Cambie’s consultancy. Does anyone know? Are they de-stemming? Using new/smaller wood? Picking riper on purpose? Higher in abv? Le Vieux Donjon sure seems to have changed over the past decade into something ‘moreish’. The more CdP changes, the more I buy Charvin, and less of everything else.
Ditto. Plus Clos du Mont Olivet and (starting with 2009) Consonniere. Even though Sebastien Cuscusa at Dom. Consonniere is consulting with Cambie. Go figure.
Clos Mont Olivet has also used Cambie as a consultant for some time now. I must say, to my palate, one can taste Cambie on the Papet but not on the normal cuvee. I have had this impression about the luxury cuvees at other domaines as well.
I did not know that - but then, I never buy Papet or other luxury cuvées.
Anyone here who can post a list of all the places Cambie consults?
From chateauneuf.dk, Cambie’s Southern Rhone consulting clients now include:
Le Clos du Caillou
Tardieu-Laurent (negociant)
Clos Saint Jean
Domaine Saint Prefert
Domaine Monpertuis
Domaine Aphillanthes (Cairanne)
Domaine Barville
Chateau de Vaudieu
Feraud-Brunel
Jean Royer
Domaine Giraud
Le Vieux Donjon
Domaine de Villeneuve
Les Caillou
Domaine Font Croze (Rasteau)
Domaine la Garrigue (Vacqueyras/Gigondas)
Domaine Boisson (Cairanne)
Domaine Bosquet des Papes
Domaine des Escaravailles ( Rasteau)
Domaine Patrice Magni
Domaine Grand Nicolet (Rasteau)
Domaine de Saint-Paul
Domaine du Grand Tinel
Domaine Saint Damien (Gigondas)
Domaine des Senechaux
Domaine des Coteaux de Travers (Rasteau)
Domaine de la Colliere (Rasteau)
Domaine des Bosquets (Gigondas)
Domaine de l’Oratoire Saint Martin (Cairanne)
Clos du Mont Olivet
Chateau de la Font du Loup
Domaine Olivier Hillaire
Domaine de Bramadou (Roaix)
Domaine Constant-Duqousnoy (Vinsobres)
Domaine de la Ferme St. Martin (Beaumes de Venise)
Domaine les Haut des Terres Blanches (since 2008)
Domaine Duseigneur (Saint Laurent des Arbres)
Domaine Jean David (Seguret)
Domaine de la Bastidonne (Ventoux)
Domaine de Marotte (Ventoux)
Chateau Cabrieres
Rouve Saint Leger (Laudun)
Domaine Galuval (Cairanne)
Domaine Manarine (Cotes du Rhone)
Cave Jamet
Domaine Cros Romet (Cairanne)
Domaine de Dionyssos (Massif d’Ucaux)
Domaine Maby (Tavel/Lirac)
Domaine du Longue Toque (Gigondas)
Vignobles Charles Tyrand (Cotes du Rhone Village)
La Gramière (Cotes du Rhone)
Cambie has his own website:
http://www.philippecambie.com/
You can get his list there, plus dates. The dates are sometimes surprising: Vieux Donjon starting in 2000 and Clos Mont Olivet starting in 1999. I must say that I find both the 2000 and the 01 Vieux Donjons to be old style and the 98 Papet to be a beautiful wine (he may not have had a hand in that). Likewise at Gigondas, he has consulted at Saint Damien since 1998, but they too made very nice 01s and, to my mind, didn’t cross over to the dark side until 2007. Of Maybe Cambie didn’t cross over himself until 2003 or thereabouts.
Could be. Happened to me.
A good test is to pop open a couple of those older vintages that you’ve enjoyed before and are in their drinking windows to see what you think. If you don’t like them or they just don’t do it for you, it is probably you.
A 1998 Vieux Telegraphe was my decision-maker. It is a great wine. I loved the 2 bottles I had in the previous 4 years. The third was the same, objectively great, wine but I did not enjoy it like I did before. At that point I decided to sell all my CdP to people who would and use the proceeds to buy stuff I love.
Patrick,
I recently opened 2001 Charvin which was outstanding as usual.
Most Pegau’s I open are still great.
I’ll try the 2010 VT and see what happens.
Funny how things have turned around…for me, I am comfortable with Burgundy and feel like So Rhone is the minefield! ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
(I also have some 01/03 Mon Aieul I should check on)
Dan -
I am curious about your take on the '01 Mon Aieul. I popped one about a year ago and thought it was gorgeous. Cannot say the same thing about an '07 I popped recently.
That’s likely a function of vintage (01 classic, 07 ripe-to-overripe), compounded by the difference in age
I haven’t had any 2010s yet but I’d like suggest that in general (of course) not only have Southern Rhones, CDP in particular, have changed but that our palates have also. I happen to still like the 07 CDPS but I also have begun to like Burgs. Until a few years ago I just didn’t get them. And I’m not buying any heavy hitters. Mainly mere Bourgognes. Maybe its the influence of this board, but I now find them a nice alternative.
Yes, you did it all wrong - should’ve had it in magnum.
We are all getting older, Daniel! You more slowly than me, I think. I have to admit that I really enjoyed an '07 Janasse VV that I popped this past weekend, though following a 2006 Schrader perhaps made it look toned down.
To Robert’s point about '01 and '07, I still sense some stylistic changes occuring during that short time period as well. Despite having popped that '07 Janasse VV this past weekend, I’m really trying to forget about the '07s for some time to see what if anything happens to them with some maturation.