2009 Baudry Chinon "Les Grezeaux" - did I miss something?

First off, I’d better say that Michelle and I have had minimal exposure to Loire wines. We were there for a few days last fall, and at the time were focusing more on the chateaux than the wine, aside from an impromptu visit to Domaine Huet (got to meet Noel Pinguet and Anthony Hwang, but didn’t realize until after the fact who we were talking to, on the first day of harvest no less!) . So after reading the many threads lately about Loire cab franc, I ordered a few bottles to see what the fuss is about.

Last night we had the '09 Bernard Baudry Chinon “Les Grezeaux” with grilled flat iron steak. There was minimal nose, even after a couple of hours of air. Palate was acidic with smooth tannin. Some darker red fruit, noticeable minerality, a little streak of traditional green pepper, and a fair amount of cigar box. Very short finish. My overall thought was that it seemed like a slightly lean lower-level Bordeaux. Didn’t detect anything musty or cardboardy to suggest TCA, but I tend to not be very sensitive to that, I think. Overall, it went fine with the meal, and for $23 you can do a lot worse, but I guess I was expecting something more based on the hype. It’s not like I was expecting a Shiraz fruit bomb or anything, but I’m still a bit at a loss. Did I miss something here, or am I just finding that red Loire isn’t to my taste yet?

Anyway, my “'09 Loire sample pack” still contains another of these and a pair of “Croix Boissee”, as well as some Guion Bourgueil “Prestige”, an Amirault “Malgagnes”, and an '07 Clos Rougeard. Am I in for more of the same? Should I wait a few years to try the others? Or what?

Decanted at all? Air does help the wine (not that they need hours, but 30-60mins is nice). Also… That might be the flavor profile (I’ve had other 09s from him, not the Grezeaux and the minerality and cigar box sounds familiar).

We took a bottle of this wine to a party on Saturday night. At first it was very astringent so I decanted it for about ten hours and it was very enjoyable. Just a little bit of funk but not at all off-putting. The fruit was there but not prominent and there was only the slightest hint of green. Overall, everyone was very pleased with this wine and I’m glad I bought some.

Hi Jeff -

Tastes are what they are, so perhaps these Loire CFs are not in your wheelhouse. You picked some top-tier wines from good vintages, so if these wines don’t do it for you, you will know! I had the '09 Baudry Les Granges yesterday. I found it to be a wonderful QPR (say in the 89 pt range) and drinking very, very similarly to the Dme. Guion Prestige, one of the best under $15 dollar bottles I have had all year. The profiles on these wines tend to be more lean fruit, higher acidity and more texture. The Les Granges was like biting into a big, tart green apple followed by crunchy currants and tobacco leaves. Nuanced with a palate feel that I can only describe as minerality, like a wet river bed. These are still babies, so I “popped and poured” my first glass in the early afternoon, then followed the wine for the rest of the evening. It opened up nicely, but the nose was still a bit muted. Paired very well with grilled salmon. Before you give up, please try Joguet, preferably Clos de las Dioterie, from a ripe year like 05 or 09. Joguet is also a terroir driven wine, but tends to be slightly more modern in structure than some of those you have bought.

We got the honor of visiting baudry this year (unfortunately screwed up our scheduling on Huet). We tasted most of the 09 line up and had a 20 year old chinon as the final taste/ comparison. That age was eye opening for a Loire rookie like me. The 09 were as you described - full of minerals and tight as a drum. The aged wine was pretty much the opposite and was quite a treat. My feeling is these wines will not impress non-wine geeks (sorry for the double negative) especially in their youth.

Now another loire producer that opened my eyes was Guiberteau (think that’s the spelling). I got the recommendation from a berserker to go there. Those were stunning wines to me.

While I’m sure a lot here will not agree, in my limited experience, cab franc is a really tough grape to make a good early drinking wine from - unless you like green pepper or really plush, soft CA fruit bomb versions.

The 2009s I’ve had need plenty of air. Try having a glass, re-corking and keeping in the fridge for a day or two before going back in for another look.

More than air, I suspect that this wine just needs more time in the cellar. Palate calibration due to lack of experience and exposure to these sorts of wines might be an issue as well. It’s been my experience that Loire reds need to be approached differently from the way you’d assess a new world wine. It took me a lot of years before I really appreciated the subtlety of Chinon and Bourgueil, particularly the way they enhance food. The timing actually worked out well, as the 96s and 97s I’d initially bought (and was disappointed by) were left in the cellar and now, 15 years later they’re drinking beautifully and I absolutely appreciate them and wish I’d bought more.

Robert’s advice and recommendations above is great - these wines are not fruit-forward and aromatically are unlike Bordeaux or California Cabernet Franc. Joguet is an excellent bridge to Loire reds, as would be Chanteleuserie or Breton.

DF

I have 6 btls of '09 Grezeaux. They will age for 5 yrs before I pop the first cork. You sample pack is a good one and that Croix Boissee needs a good amount of age before it will be ready, but it will age 20 yrs. Agree with Dan about looking to other domaines like Joguet and Breton as intro to the area. In fact, the Breton Beauxmont would be a good choice at $20. And yes, the wines aren’t for everyone, but at least you’re giving it a go and hopefully enjoying the experience. Another option, are there any good shops in Witchita that have tastings?

Echoing what others have said, Baudry’s 2009s need a good dose of air at this point. I’ve found that the Franc de Pied, and to a lesser extent, the Grezeaux seem to be shutting down compared to where they were in early 2011. The rest of the wines you have should all be great, but I’d suggest holding the Croix Boissee and Rougeard for a while as they’re both infants.

Jeff- it sounds like these might not be the wines for you. Understanding your comment about not expecting a fruit bomb, I think if you are looking for these to be something where richer fruit is the focus, you won’t find it here. These are excellent wines with a variety of food and you will likely find enjoyment over a meal with them.

To Gregg et al above on aging… I think people, somewhat including myself, just don’t age $20-ish wines nor think of them shutting down so soon. In fact, I’m a bit suspicious of a wine that shuts down so fast. I had the Granges a couple of months ago and I’d be shocked if it was shut down now.

I’m not saying they won’t evolve(or that inexpensive wines can’t… I have some older Muscadet), but I wonder if Anthony is closer to the mark here and the wines just aren’t Jeff’s thing. Face it, they are more of an AFWE set.

My hunch would be the same as Anthony’s and Rick’s. Jeff’s description does sound roughly how I’d expect that wine to taste right now (I have bought 6 of that bottle, but haven’t opened one, though I have opened one of the 09 Granges, and I’ve had many of these bottles from the 05 vintage), and maybe it’s not his thing. These are certainly wines with a pretty narrow audience even among wine geeks, and there’s nothing the least bit wrong with concluding that they may just not be your thing.

Having said that, I would guess that Jeff might appreciate these relatively more with longer aeration and, better still, more bottle age. I don’t think he has to wait for a decade or anything, but a couple of years would probably improve all of them significantly, and there’s no reason not to if he doesn’t really like their youthful profile. The hardness of the finish should soften, and the fruit should become a bit more generous, in a couple of years.

I had a similar reaction to my last attempt at Loire cab franc- in my case the Guion Bourgueil Prestige. Tasted to me like a young and green Bordeaux. Interestingly my previous attempt- a JM Raffault - I enjoyed much more. Maybe it was because it was from a restaurant with non-ideal storage, hence it had aged a bit, or perhaps Raffault is a different style (I have no idea).

Why? Age worthy wine and a $20ish price are not mutually exclusive. Somewhere there is a thread dedicated to age worthy wines, I think it was sub $50, but still you get the gist. I won’t bother to list them, but lots of wines in this category are age worthy with many requiring bottle time. Last night we had a '91 Ridge Sta. Cruz Mtn CS that was in a wonderful place. IIRC, that was a $20-25 btl. One problem with aging wine, is some people simply don’t like older wine. They prefer the fat of youth, the vibrancy and intensity you get early on. Tertiary flavors may be an acquired taste for some. It took me a while to appreciate delicacy vs powerful, primary vs complexity, etc…I simply don’t buy the idea that many lower priced wines are not age worthy.

Sigh… read the rest of my post.

I’m not saying they won’t evolve(or that inexpensive wines can’t… I have some older Muscadet), but I wonder if Anthony is closer to the mark here and the wines just aren’t Jeff’s thing.

I’m simply noting that most people don’t anticipate that a $20 wine will need 5+ years to show well.

Wow - go to work for the morning and look what happens! That’s why I like this place :slight_smile:

My comment about not expecting a fruit bomb was meant to be taken literally. I know this wasn’t going to be super lush, nor do I need it to be. In general, Michelle and I both tend to dislike overly ripe or extracted wines (noticable oak and sweet red are dirty words in our house), so I would have been much more disappointed to find something that said “California” in any form. We might not be hard-core AFWE types, but we definitely tend to like old-world way more than new.

Based on other comments on the board, though, I was at least expecting some fruit. Michelle actually made the comment that she thought it tasted like lightly acidic water, and I know her palate is more sensitive than mine is. My first thought leaned toward “flaw” more than anything else, actually. I just couldn’t identify what the flaw might be.

And while we didn’t give this one a meaningful or vigorous decant, it did get to sit in glass for a couple of hours. Again, based on other notes here, I thought we should be ok.

As for the “try before you buy” idea, I’d love to do that. But Kansas law does not allow a liquor store to actually open a bottle for a tasting. And I’m almost certain that I’ve never seen a bottle of red Loire anything in a store here. So all of this was bought online and shipped, and that’s what I’m likely to have to do in the future too. These bottles have rested about 2 weeks since arrival, which should be enough for a wine like this.

Anyway, I’m certainly not going to write off an entire region or style of wine based on one bottle! I’ll make a note to leave the Rougeard and Boissee sleep for a while, and will try a couple of the others in the more near term. If '09 is going to be particularly tight across the board at the moment, is there another vintage that might offer a better peek at what to expect?

This is all part of an experiment to get us out of our Burgundy / Mosel / Rhone rut, and I certainly wasn’t expecting everything to be a home run…

Thanks for all of the thoughts and advice.

it’s a good point. up until a couple years ago, i’d fall within this camp as well. the good news is that these wines age incredibly well, and i have to wonder if the mindset Rick highlights is one reason why this category of wine doesn’t get more respect…people are just drinking it too young and aren’t waiting until the wine matures.

I’ve had several bottles of the '09 Grezeaux over the last year or so… the wine is certainly a bit more subdued than it was closer to its release… but still open enough to appreciate I think.

I love this wine, both earlier and later bottles, but I understand why this can be somewhat of a polarizing style of wine.

I readily admit though that some of the enjoyment from this wine to me comes from it’s singularity. There is no mistaking a bottle of Grezeaux for anything but Cabernet Franc. I think some may not care about this aspect as much…

Jeff,
I had a bottle of the '09 CB last night… may I suggest that you try one? A very different style than the Grezeaux, much less rusticity, much more polished pedigreed fruit (although still keeping to its origins). A very pure and powerful wine. As others have mentioned, a wine that will improve in the cellar, but certainly not a waste to drink now.

Agreed. But I also think people aren’t patient with wine in general.

So well said. I was trying to explain this point to my wife last night, but was using the word precision. I think singularity encapsulates the point better. She still didn’t like it, though, which is fine by me! She got to finish off a Gigondas, so we all won.

And by the way, I am by no means a AFWE. I actually prefer riper vintages of Chinon or Saumur.