2008 DRC Grands Echezeaux - An Honest Review From a Non-Burg Drinker

[MChang]

I feel like you’re getting less stem influence from what you’re describing than you should have. The wine sounds muted. In my experience whole cluster on 08 drc is not at all subtle. Did you pop and pour this?

[Andrew_K]

I feel like you’re getting less stem influence from what you’re describing than you should have. The wine sounds muted.

There’s no good wines, only good bottles. However, in this case I don’t think we had either. I agree that it sounds like an off bottle … of a less than stellar wine.

[Peter_Chiu]

I feel like you’re getting less stem influence from what you’re describing than you should have. The wine sounds muted. In my experience whole cluster on 08 drc is not at all subtle. Did you pop and pour this?

Just checked Meadows Issue 37 - the DRC 08 was about 60% to 70% whole cluster.

Here are the exact text -

*****…Yields though were very low, even for us at between 15 and 19 hl/ha. Sugars ranged between 12.5 and 12.8% and we de-stemmed between 30 and 40% of the fruit. ***

[Peter_Chiu]

What i cant understand is that if there is some consensus about the 2008 not being as mind blowing, why does the market price seem to be unaffected by that? I would think that at such a high price point, vintage/ quality variation would cause tremendous variation in the price.

Because you’re paying to drink DRC, not for the vintage. The real question is why people still pay hundreds of dollars for premoxed white burgundy.

Keith very well said. I stopped both - drinking DRC and paying hundreds of dollars for white burgundy wines…NOW.

I Just would like to my other comments to your points : DRC…are very pool QPR.

 The greatest disorder of the human mind is to believe that things are so because we wish them to be so. – Emile Peynaud.

To search for the highest magical height for the enjoyment of drinking a bottle of red burgundy…one needs to also add the surprising factor.

If the bottle of DRC wine delivers…one could conclude …yes - it should be…as the release price ( and/or secondary price ) is so high.

If the bottle of DRC wine fails ( like what we are talking now )…it is more disappointing…

[Greg_K]

My standard line on DRC is that it’s not magic; it can be great, but can also disappoint - like any other wine. From the Burgundy I occasionally I drink I don’t even find it to be the most consistently excellent. DRC is as capable of having misses as any other producer, especially given the amount of wine they make (it’s a lot!). Far and away my best DRC experience was a 1969 Grand Echezeaux from the cellar of another Burgundy producer, which was a magical wine. I’ve yet to experience a similar high from younger DRC either at smaller events or Paulee-like experiences. So you’re not alone Rich - and I very much like Burgundy!

agreed with this - for people who are fortunate enough to have had aged Burgundy in great condition, with younger vintages you think a lot about what it can become, which is almost always greater than it is young. This is not unique to DRC. If you have the financial ability and patience/discipline not to touch, and it is an actuarily sound decision to do so, lay some down and Future You will be very grateful.

Evan, I agree with you generally, but I think it’s especially true for DRC. The wines are made with 100 new oak and whole cluster, and I don’t think they’re meant to be at their best young. Whereas I have much less concern drinking 08s from producers like Mugneret-Gibourg or Mugnier, which show very well at younger ages.

[Peter_Chiu]

I feel like you’re getting less stem influence from what you’re describing than you should have. The wine sounds muted.

There’s no good wines, only good bottles. However, in this case I don’t think we had either. I agree that it sounds like an off bottle … of a less than stellar wine.

Here was what Johnson said years ago - re DRC …too often bottles are in frankly poor condition.

****…as the prices of the Domain’s wines are so spectacularly high, one expects to find them not only exception in character but in perfect condition. They are essentially wines for very long bottle-ageing. What is surprising in that they often show sign of instability. It is almost the hallmark of ¨D.R.C.¨ wines that they are instantly recognizable by their exotic opulence, yet rarely identical from bottle to bottle. Too often bottles are in frankly poor condition. ****

[MChang]

What i cant understand is that if there is some consensus about the 2008 not being as mind blowing, why does the market price seem to be unaffected by that? I would think that at such a high price point, vintage/ quality variation would cause tremendous variation in the price.

Because you’re paying to drink DRC, not for the vintage. The real question is why people still pay hundreds of dollars for premoxed white burgundy.

Keith very well said. I stopped both - drinking DRC and paying hundreds of dollars for white burgundy wines…NOW.

I Just would like to my other comments to your points : DRC…are very pool QPR.

 The greatest disorder of the human mind is to believe that things are so because we wish them to be so. – Emile Peynaud.

To search for the highest magical height for the enjoyment of drinking a bottle of red burgundy…one needs to also add the surprising factor.

If the bottle of DRC wine delivers…one could conclude …yes - it should be…as the release price ( and/or secondary price ) is so high.

If the bottle of DRC wine fails ( like what we are talking now )…it is more disappointing…

Drc are only bad QPR if you’re drinking them all right away on purchase. Drc has outperformed the S&P 500 by 3-4x this year. I could sell one of the bottles of 17 RSV for what I paid for two last year and drink for free. That’s pretty good QPR.

[Peter_Chiu]

Hmmm…Micheal -you are giving a different example…to justify …your points.

BUY…please read and try to understand my points in my posts carefully. DRC is very poor QPR red burgundy if you buy them and only drink them ( without flipping them ).

They are poor QPR if you are prohibited from flipping them .

They are one of the best wines for flipping…and there are also other …including the big-3 from Rousseau.

You should drink one 1 bottle each of all your big 3 Rousseau from 2017 only and let other to drink the rest of your big 3 Rousseau. You will drink all the rest of your Rousseau 2017 red …for free !!!

[MChang]

Hmmm…Micheal -you are giving a different example…to justify …your points.

BUY…please read and try to understand my points in my posts carefully. DRC is very poor QPR red burgundy if you buy them and only drink them ( without flipping them ).

They are should be poor QPR if you are prohibited from flipping them .

They are the best wines for flipping. beside DRC, there are also other …including the big-3 from Rousseau.

You should drink 1/3 of all your big 3 Rousseau from 2017…and drink all the rest of your Rousseau 2017 red …for free !!!

Anything expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that was the primary consideration.

[Peter_Chiu]

Michael…one needs to figure out : where are you going !!

I went through the road to Burgundy for a while now.

I did not wish to argue…but : here was …what Stuart Beaunehead NIEMTZOW - wrote on the one of the thread on : 2021/06/10

**Who cares!! Until you have figured out your goals and limitations, etc…figure them out first…and then figure out a strategy to get there…asking a thousand more questions won’t get you to the starting point of figuring out your personal goals…just inaction…and “paralysis by analysis”.…

[MChang]

Michael…one needs to figure out : where are you going !!

I went through the road to Burgundy for a while now.

I did not wish to argue…but : here was …what Stuart Beaunehead NIEMTZOW - wrote on the one of the thread on : 2021/06/10

**Who cares!! Until you have figured out your goals and limitations, etc…figure them out first…and then figure out a strategy to get there…asking a thousand more questions won’t get you to the starting point of figuring out your personal goals…just inaction…and “paralysis by analysis”.…

I’m perfectly happy with how my cellar is going. I buy wines I’d like to drink but for the most part also appreciate.

[Victor_Hong]

Rich likes Brown.

[Peter_Chiu]

Machial …I understand your point and I love to talk to you about red Burgundy wines.

But…once in a while, I have problem understanding some of your comments. Here is any example : *Anything expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that was the primary consideration.

I will write slowly and explain. Meadows said : in burgundy…you pay for what you got and you seldom get what you not wish to pay for.

There is some true in that sentence. G-cru are expensive and so are 1er cru…now since 2018 vintage.

You will seldom…get the magical high form a Bourgogne rouge : unless it is from Bizot at release price.

With your comments …like this …anyting expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that the primary consideration……I am scathing my head

[MChang]

Machial …I understand your point and I love to talk to you about red Burgundy wines.

But…once in a while, I have problem understanding some of your comments. Here is any example : *Anything expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that was the primary consideration.

I will write slowly and explain. Meadows said : in burgundy…you pay for what you got and you seldom get what you not wish to pay for.

There is some true in that sentence. G-cru are expensive and so are 1er cru…now since 2018 vintage.

You will seldom…get the magical high form a Bourgogne rouge : unless it is from Bizot at release price.

With your comments …like this …anyting expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that the primary consideration……I am scathing my head

It’s pretty simple. You can get a very nice burgundy experience with various $30 Bourgogne. Paying 3x as much will only result in marginal increases in quality and paying
30 or 300x as much will only result in additional marginal increases in quality.

[CFu]

for me, GE though pricewise second lowest in the hierarchy after Echezeaux (forgetting the more recent Corton and the occasional premier cru), it takes much more time than Ech, RSV, and sometimes even Richebourg, to strut its stuff. It’s a stern wine. I’m not apologizing for what may be a not so good DRC, just mentioning a little experience. It’s just very young. Sorry you weren’t wowed. Don’t give up on burgundy till you’ve tried a couple 20 year old premier crus.

really? I feel like GE is way more accessible than Ech/RSV/Richebourg nowadays. Since 2014 Corton is def the most accessible. I still find Ech to be the least accessible as the oak is so much less integrated.

Idk, 17 and 18 GE felt pretty tight to me.

17 GE was delicious when we had it last year. Very surprised. If you do a vintage tasting of them young, it feels GE always shows more accessible

[Peter_Chiu]

Victor…merci.

Class will always rules.

[Marcus_Dean]

Let me start off by mentioning a couple things. First, I do not drink much Burgundy/Pinot at all. It’s not that I don’t like it……I’ve just never focused on it before as my limited experience (with Burgundy in particular) has never really hit the highs for me that other wines/varietal’s do. Second, I have a pretty diverse cellar and drink across a wide range of wines depending on what I’m in the mood for. Everything from California Cabs/Zins, Bordeaux, Beaujolais, Carignane, Mataro/Mourvèdre, to Chenin Blanc, Riesling (dry and sweet), Hunter Valley Semillon, all the way to Madeira, Port, and Sauternes. In other words, I like to think that I can enjoy/appreciate many different styles of wines and celebrate diversity/exploring new things.

All that said, after spending quite a bit of time with this wine, I have to say that I, unfortunately, was not very impressed. I know. It’s DRC, how could I not love it?? Maybe my expectations were too high, but it just wasn’t very…….exciting. It was a ‘good’ wine. Maybe even ‘very good’. Nice baking spice notes on the nose, and subtle nuances of roses and cherries on the palate. All of which were very enjoyable, but I definitely did not get any of that DRC magic that I read about, and certainly did not have that Burgundy Epiphany that I was really hoping to experience. I’m far from an expert on DRC/Burgundy, but the CT notes on this wine from people whos palates I appreciate are glowing, so when I found it for a ‘decent price’ here locally from a source that has owned it since release and stored it properly (literally perfect provenance), I decided to splurge and see what a top notch Burgundy was all about.

Was it a nice wine and do I feel fortunate to have had the opportunity to try it? Absolutely. In hindsight, knowing what my experience was with the wine, do I wish that I would have sold it to someone else who would probably enjoy it more than myself while also making a little money ? Yeah. I hate to say it, but I kinda do. I guess Burgundy just isn’t my bag……which given the prices, is probably ok


20211231_172134.jpg

Rich,
The good news is that you have crossed drinking DRC off your list.
A lot of people tend to get a bit carried away when they write tasting notes for DRC because its DRC. The greatest Burg (singular) that I have drunk was a 78 DRC, but I have had PLENTY of bottles that didnt measure up.
In Burgundy you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince (DRC is no exception).

[Peter_Chiu]

Machial …I understand your point and I love to talk to you about red Burgundy wines.

But…once in a while, I have problem understanding some of your comments. Here is any example : *Anything expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that was the primary consideration.

I will write slowly and explain. Meadows said : in burgundy…you pay for what you got and you seldom get what you not wish to pay for.

There is some true in that sentence. G-cru are expensive and so are 1er cru…now since 2018 vintage.

You will seldom…get the magical high form a Bourgogne rouge : unless it is from Bizot at release price.

With your comments …like this …anyting expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that the primary consideration……I am scathing my head

It’s pretty simple. You can get a very nice burgundy experience with various $30 Bourgogne. Paying 3x as much will only result in marginal increases in quality and paying
30 or 300x as much will only result in additional marginal increases in quality.

Well noted. To continue with your logic…may I know how many bottles of Bourgogne rouge you had bought ?

From reading you posts here…I am not sure ( and no offense is intended ) you also drinking them .



BTW…I am a big fun of …Bichot - Bourgogne v.v. (1066-7474 -$18). I buy them year in and year out since vintage 2011. Sadly SAQ did not release this wine in thier Depot Store ( one will get 15% discount automatically for a purchase of a case of any 12 bottles ) after vintage 2018.

[Tom_R_W]

QPR is much different than ROI.

[MChang]

Machial …I understand your point and I love to talk to you about red Burgundy wines.

But…once in a while, I have problem understanding some of your comments. Here is any example : *Anything expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that was the primary consideration.

I will write slowly and explain. Meadows said : in burgundy…you pay for what you got and you seldom get what you not wish to pay for.

There is some true in that sentence. G-cru are expensive and so are 1er cru…now since 2018 vintage.

You will seldom…get the magical high form a Bourgogne rouge : unless it is from Bizot at release price.

With your comments …like this …anyting expensive is bad QPR. We’d all be drinking Bourgogne if that the primary consideration……I am scathing my head

It’s pretty simple. You can get a very nice burgundy experience with various $30 Bourgogne. Paying 3x as much will only result in marginal increases in quality and paying
30 or 300x as much will only result in additional marginal increases in quality.

Well noted. To continue with your logic…may I know how many bottles of Bourgogne rouge you had bought ?

From reading you posts here…I am not sure ( and no offense is intended ) you also drinking them .



BTW…I am a big fun of …Bichot - Bourgogne v.v. (1066-7474 -$18). I buy them year in and year out since vintage 2011. Sadly SAQ did not release this wine in thier Depot Store ( one will get 15% discount automatically for a purchase of a case of any 12 bottles ) after vintage 2018.

Hudelot Noellat BR is our house red so I have 5-10 cases of most vintages; maybe 50 total cases. I have a bit of Barthod too.