Guess it’s time to roll the dice and open one of my '02s.
This reminds me a little of the nearby Metras thread.
Loaded dice
My success rate is 2 out of 14 (1989 and 1996) but those two were sublime. The remaining twelve were oxidized dreck. There is no middle ground, no wine that has just slightly turned, where you can extrapolate. The two bear no resemblance to the twelve. I really don’t like the odds
As this is a fairly idiosyncratic wine, I thought I should add my experience, somewhat slim as it may be. I have had CdS 4 times, 3 from 2002, once from 2005. All were sound, deep gold but not even slightly brown, and not oxidized. The 2002 is one of my favorite wines, intense and characterful while light in texture and refreshing. I have found them to change significantly during a meal, whether from air or temperature or both, fruity turns savory, and the wine moves from challenging to friendly; I find this morphing personality quite appealing.
The 2005 was more extreme, higher in alcohol, botrytized and even more intense, reminiscent somewhat of a very powerful, auslese-ripe trocken riesling. This too, however, shifted during the meal, and by the end it seemed quite similar to my memory of the 2002s.
I can’t speak to the efficacy of Mr. Joly’s farming and winemaking regimen, but I will note that my bottles so far have been 4-for-4, and I consider CdS to be a proper archetype of dry chenin blanc, one I proudly serve to anyone interested.
Steve, from your previous bottles, it would seem that the one I tasted was an aberration. Confused about your comment re “dry chenin” when the 95` had 5% residual sugar???
Always been a fan of CB and this wine in particular, I dig oxidized Jura white wines as well to provide some context.
Last had the 95 over a long lunch on Orcas Island last summer. Wine improved over 2+ hours, was brilliant with local mussels. We had the 97 during that lunch too, and that showed more advanced. Perhaps more an individual bottle thing rather than vintage at the interval. I could not speak intelligently to that.
I’m sure others can chime in.
The regular bottling had 5% RS, or the moelleux?
Hi, Blake. A couple of comments: I don’t have any idea the RS of the 2 vintages I have drunk, but I would note that I am pretty sensitive to sugar in off-dry wines; for example, I have had lots of Huet secs, and find them distinctly sweet (though I still love them, they are just not dry). I would say this, these are really intense wines with quite a lot going on. I would not at all be surprised if the 2005 has some RS, it is labeled at 14.5%, and is very ripe with significant botrytis; with non-commercial yeast it very well may not ferment to technical dryness, and of course each vintage is unique.
To be clearer, I just searched again and came up with this which confuses me more: “The Clos is a Monopole of Joly’s Family that has its own AOC Coulee de Serrant. In older vintages it was labelled as ‘Chateau de La Roche aux Moines’. Triple ‘A’ producer. In 1995 ‘Clos de la Coulee de Serrant’ was also released as Moelleux.”
So, if I understand this correctly, in 95` they are one and the same OR was there 2 releases and one was dry and the other sweet? If the latter is correct, then the RS I quote is obviously for the sweet [Moelleux}.
Here’s what I found on the sulfur issue: “The domaine started biodynamic farming in 1980. Since 1984, the entire vineyards has been farmed biodymalically. Since 1984, no synthetic chemical products, insecticides, systemic products or nitrates have been used on the property.
A small amount of sulphur and “bouillie bordelaise” (copper and lime) are sprayed each year on the vines (about 10 kilos of “bouillie bordelaise” per hectare, the équivalent of 2,5 kilos of copper). Sulphur has a beneficial effect when the vines are in flower. The amount of copper is limited, an excess would be harmful to the life of the soil.”
Thanks Steve. I understand the dilemma here.
FWIIW, here’s one more quote from Joly: “I personally believe that chenin – along with Riesling – is one of the very few grape varieties which can only fully express their deep personalities through a fairly advance maturity which contains some “noble rot”.
This is different from late harvest. This noble rot comes for only a few days when the grape is beyond the deep yellow level. It brings to the wine a deep golden color, sometimes dark amber – but this colour must not be confused with oxidation.
At this ripening level, yield is substantially reduced while a higher level of concentration showcases the minerality of the vineyard site (schist, quartz, flint).
This level of maturity can only be reached successfully if all chemical treatments against rot are avoided. These treatments upset the subtle balance of maturity. It therefore implies an organic or biodynamic farming.”
I’m confused. Are you taking about Joly or Closel?
Joly. Sorry about the confusion.
I was responding to your post: "Savennieres is often picked pretty ripe, with some botrytis, even for the dry wines, but that ABV does sound high.
In addition to being biodynamic, do I recall that Joly uses little or no sulfur?
OK.
The low sulfur may well explain the frequent oxidation of the wines.
My thinking as well.