16 Napa's What can we expect

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@ky1em!ttskus

Merrill, I think Tex might be in love with you. #notjoking

Nope. Too many strikes against her.

[Alan_Rath]

@Roy Piper

2011: poor, cold, wet vintage. A small number of wines are beauts. Drink now and next five. 75pts

Funny, one man’s poor is another’s exceptional. For me, this was the best vintage of this century. When picked before things went totally bad, these are classic old school wines, remembering wines from decades ago. I will take a 2011 every time over most other recent vintages.

[Merrill_Lindquist]

As I said many times here, and will reiterate, Roy Piper and I are friends. When I was evacuated for the fire in early October, he was the first to check on my property. I told him where the key was so he could actually enter my house. My post is not a case of mis-trust or negativism toward my friend Mr. Piper. Just another view.

[Roy_Piper]

I am a little lucky because when I attend the Premier Napa Valley Auction every February, all the wines are from the vintage 15 months prior. So the other month I was lucky to try about 150 top Cabs from 2016, all in one place. Plus another 50-75 throughout that week. Most of these Cabs were about 4-6 months from bottling, so its a nice time for a snapshot. I really liked what I tasted. A year ago I thought 15 might be the cat’s meow, but I and others are starting to think the it might be a little less incredible than we thought due to the very high ripeness and massive tannin, and 16 might be better than we thought.

I still rank 2015 as an excellent year, but I am a little nervous that the tannin levels will outlive the fruit. It reminds me of 1997 and 2007 overall, which had “Vintage of the Century” promise early but in my mind, never quite seemed to fulfill its early promise. And I wonder if 2015 might be in that line.

I think it comes down to the style one prefers. 2015 reminds me of a Myriad Dr. Crane styled-vintage and 2016 reminds me of a VHR styled-vintage, if that helps describe them. Hope that helps! Is one really better than another? Not necessarily, but everyone can probably identify what their preferences are, stylistically.

Also, I am chatting with several Napa (and some Sonoma) winemakers about their thoughts on each vintage, all the time. Each person will have their own views of their own wines and I put them all together in my head and my impression of a vintage comes from a combo of my own tastings of their wines and their own impressions.

If I were to review my own wines, I would rank them in a very different order than my impressions of the vintage, overall. As of right now, my rank for my wines in bottle is, in order… 2014, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2011, 2010. My 2011 is better than my 2010 for me, although for most wineries it was the other way around. Also, my 2012 might be better than my 2013, which again is different than the majority. So I try to make my vintage calls based upon the totality of wines I have had from a vintage, not my own wines.

Bruce is absolutely right about the differences between the floor and mountains in 2011. I posted back in early 2012 that I thought the mountains has a solid vintage in 2011 because they did not have the fog after the heat wave whose humidity caused the mold and early picking before full ripeness. Having had several 2011 mountains since then, I think that even in the mountains, it was in the end only a so-so vintage overall. Although they did pick at the usual 25-27 brix a full month after the floor had been picked off, I think they still suffer from a cold year in general where the flavors never developed their proper depth. So if I had to separate out the mountains from the floor in 2011, I might give the floor a 65 rating and the mountains a 86 or 87. Okay, but not great. I’ve had some mountain Cabs that got 95 scores in that vintage that seem to have already peaked out and now that the new oak is wearing off, are a little thinner than they appeared when they were first bottled. Obviously not true in all situations, but enough where I ding my vintage rating overall.

[bob_poirier]

@Bill Tex Landreth

First off, I trust what Roy has to say in regard to both broad vintage ratings and specific wine recommendations to the effect that his opinions carry more weight than any critic for me these days. He tastes far and wide, and he does have the Napa insider track that he can parlay into early access to things we here cannot. Sure he has some Napa Fanboy bias, but same here in our household. I have tasted with him (been years though) and his palate aligns really well with mine. As for numerical valuations, that of course is purely subjective, but overall impressions are what I am going to base my dollar expenditures on anyway.

Secondly, I had a text conversation this past weekend with another Napa owner/winemaker and he summed up the 2013-2016 vintages pretty well. Although, he gave no points to specific years. Of course that is fine when talking the same language such as tannin, ripeness, extraction, etc. From what I gather, 2016 is a year for me to spend some coin on all up and down the spectrum of Napa wines.

Third, I have had only one 2016 Napa Cab Sauv so far. It was a Textbook Napa Cabernet Sauvignon from two weeks ago tasted side by side with the 2015. Of course it was a baby, but with four hours of air the wine was way approachable and more refined than the 2015. The '15 is still brooding and full of tannin. Based on a minuscule sample size, I prefer this 2016 to its counterpart. Again, I need to go to Napa to taste to make a broad call (I plan to make a venture in Summer to bring some of my Wagyu).

Finally, to speak Merrill’s points and opinions above…we get it. You are the only one in Napa that picks as early and at such a low brix. You yourself admit to having a micro-assessment of Napa and how wines are made at other properties. Your opinion is yours, of course.

We all know that you have lots of fans here and this is going to ruffle some feathers, but you are not a winemaker or vineyard manager by any stretch. Deciding on a pick date makes you the owner of the property, sorry. Also, the constant promotion of your wine and very little mention of any competitors in Valley does grow a bit tiresome. I have had winemakers tell me offline that your property is being underutilized and mismanaged. The comment was that if someone else bought the property and a new wine making team brought in, the brand would garner huge scores and dollars. Just some more food for thought.

What is the point of this? Someone asks a question and a winemaker answers in an honest way and you attack her, well done . …we get it you eat wagyu…you are awesome.

[Jim_F]

Roy and Merrill - thank you for your candid comments!

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@bob poirier

@Bill Tex Landreth

First off, I trust what Roy has to say in regard to both broad vintage ratings and specific wine recommendations to the effect that his opinions carry more weight than any critic for me these days. He tastes far and wide, and he does have the Napa insider track that he can parlay into early access to things we here cannot. Sure he has some Napa Fanboy bias, but same here in our household. I have tasted with him (been years though) and his palate aligns really well with mine. As for numerical valuations, that of course is purely subjective, but overall impressions are what I am going to base my dollar expenditures on anyway.

Secondly, I had a text conversation this past weekend with another Napa owner/winemaker and he summed up the 2013-2016 vintages pretty well. Although, he gave no points to specific years. Of course that is fine when talking the same language such as tannin, ripeness, extraction, etc. From what I gather, 2016 is a year for me to spend some coin on all up and down the spectrum of Napa wines.

Third, I have had only one 2016 Napa Cab Sauv so far. It was a Textbook Napa Cabernet Sauvignon from two weeks ago tasted side by side with the 2015. Of course it was a baby, but with four hours of air the wine was way approachable and more refined than the 2015. The '15 is still brooding and full of tannin. Based on a minuscule sample size, I prefer this 2016 to its counterpart. Again, I need to go to Napa to taste to make a broad call (I plan to make a venture in Summer to bring some of my Wagyu).

Finally, to speak Merrill’s points and opinions above…we get it. You are the only one in Napa that picks as early and at such a low brix. You yourself admit to having a micro-assessment of Napa and how wines are made at other properties. Your opinion is yours, of course.

We all know that you have lots of fans here and this is going to ruffle some feathers, but you are not a winemaker or vineyard manager by any stretch. Deciding on a pick date makes you the owner of the property, sorry. Also, the constant promotion of your wine and very little mention of any competitors in Valley does grow a bit tiresome. I have had winemakers tell me offline that your property is being underutilized and mismanaged. The comment was that if someone else bought the property and a new wine making team brought in, the brand would garner huge scores and dollars. Just some more food for thought.

What is the point of this? Someone asks a question and a winemaker answers in an honest way and you attack her, well done . …we get it you eat wagyu…you are awesome.

I know I am awesome. Thanks.

She is NOT a winemaker. Please, everyone understand this. She owns a house on a vineyard with some cats.

[Roy_Piper]

@Alan Rath

@Roy Piper

2011: poor, cold, wet vintage. A small number of wines are beauts. Drink now and next five. 75pts

Funny, one man’s poor is another’s exceptional. For me, this was the best vintage of this century. When picked before things went totally bad, these are classic old school wines, remembering wines from decades ago. I will take a 2011 every time over most other recent vintages.

I really like my own 2011 and think it’s among the best of a poor vintage. But yeah, it comes down to style preference for sure. To me, best wines from the floor in Napa in 2011 tastes like 1999 Bordeaux from second and third growths. Some people loved those wines! I also know some people several years ago who were finding they liked 2000 Napa Cabs and found good ones a bargain prices.

Yet someone in Europe might try a 2013 Napa Cab and find it undrinkable.

[Merrill_Lindquist]

@Bill Tex Landreth

First off, I trust what Roy has to say in regard to both broad vintage ratings and specific wine recommendations to the effect that his opinions carry more weight than any critic for me these days. He tastes far and wide, and he does have the Napa insider track that he can parlay into early access to things we here cannot. Sure he has some Napa Fanboy bias, but same here in our household. I have tasted with him (been years though) and his palate aligns really well with mine. As for numerical valuations, that of course is purely subjective, but overall impressions are what I am going to base my dollar expenditures on anyway.

Secondly, I had a text conversation this past weekend with another Napa owner/winemaker and he summed up the 2013-2016 vintages pretty well. Although, he gave no points to specific years. Of course that is fine when talking the same language such as tannin, ripeness, extraction, etc. From what I gather, 2016 is a year for me to spend some coin on all up and down the spectrum of Napa wines.

Third, I have had only one 2016 Napa Cab Sauv so far. It was a Textbook Napa Cabernet Sauvignon from two weeks ago tasted side by side with the 2015. Of course it was a baby, but with four hours of air the wine was way approachable and more refined than the 2015. The '15 is still brooding and full of tannin. Based on a minuscule sample size, I prefer this 2016 to its counterpart. Again, I need to go to Napa to taste to make a broad call (I plan to make a venture in Summer to bring some of my Wagyu).

Finally, to speak Merrill’s points and opinions above…we get it. You are the only one in Napa that picks as early and at such a low brix. You yourself admit to having a micro-assessment of Napa and how wines are made at other properties. Your opinion is yours, of course.

We all know that you have lots of fans here and this is going to ruffle some feathers, but you are not a winemaker or vineyard manager by any stretch. Deciding on a pick date makes you the owner of the property, sorry. Also, the constant promotion of your wine and very little mention of any competitors in Valley does grow a bit tiresome. I have had winemakers tell me offline that your property is being underutilized and mismanaged. The comment was that if someone else bought the property and a new wine making team brought in, the brand would garner huge scores and dollars. Just some more food for thought.

Put me on ignore. I have welcomed you in the past into my home as a guest and sent you a thank you bottle of wine for the wine we “discovered” at my table.

If you think I am going to be pushed to invalidate my opinion and 18 years of experience because you attack me, think again. And please, please let me know who is going to make my call to pick my vineyard this 2018 vintage. I’ll take a long vacation. And then tell me who is going to make barreling decisions and bottling decisions. And new label submissions to the government. And website changes. Man, I could use someone with all that knowledge and experience and expertise.

The buck starts and stops here. I make the call to pick, and I get Clark Vineyard Management in with the crew to do that pick. And I add my own Quality Assurance team to that. If that does not suit everyone’s idea of a grower/owner/winemaker, I can’t help that.

And yes, I have received 2 unsolicited requests to view my property - just this week - from those eager to buy. I am not rich, but I do own this - all of this - and I alone make the decisions. I think we’ve got that straight, now.

[William_Segui]

Comparing vintages is hard, especially when there are no real objective standards or markers. I have impressions, recollections and subsequently trying the wines, I think 15 & 16 are just different and great wines were made in both vintages. But even that depends upon how you rate/quantify great.

2015 - consistently warm (except for two weeks in May during bloom resulting in a poor set), no weather events I can recall. Tiny berries, full canopies – a race car engine on a go kart frame. The wines are dense & powerful with lots of fruit.

2016 - yields recovered, weather was super cooperative including a great two week cooling period in August that allowed phenolic development to catch up to brix. I’ve heard it said the best vintages are the hardest to remember and I don’t recall much about Harvest 16 save the luxury of picking when you wanted to (which wasn’t necessarily the case across the board in 15).

[Roy_Piper]

I’ve come to believe that what Segui just stated… “being able to pick whenever you want” is actually the trait I most associate with great vintages. When I look back at the writings of old timers and articles about vintages from time past, I see that terminology used a lot in vintages like 1985, 1991, 1994, 2002, which have all proven to be tremendous. Also in Bordeaux for 1941, 1982, 2000. Not exceeding wet, could pick whenever you wanted.

[Carlos_Duarte]

@Bill Tex Landreth

She is NOT a winemaker. Please, everyone understand this. She owns a house on a vineyard with some cats.

Holy Crow that made meow evening!

Is that the making of a sitcom on HBO

[Merrill_Lindquist]

@William Segui

Comparing vintages is hard, especially when there are no real objective standards or markers. I have impressions, recollections and subsequently trying the wines, I think 15 & 16 are just different and great wines were made in both vintages. But even that depends upon how you rate/quantify great.

2015 - consistently warm (except for two weeks in May during bloom resulting in a poor set), no weather events I can recall. Tiny berries, full canopies – a race car engine on a go kart frame. The wines are dense & powerful with lots of fruit.

2016 - yields recovered, weather was super cooperative including a great two week cooling period in August that allowed phenolic development to catch up to brix. I’ve heard it said the best vintages are the hardest to remember and I don’t recall much about Harvest 16 save the luxury of picking when you wanted to (which wasn’t necessarily the case across the board in 15).

I keep a vintage log, next to my desk, in my own handwriting.

“The luxury of picking when you wanted to” is an interesting insight. I make the call to pick, after informing Josh Clark, fairly regularly, as to my vineyard’s status. Then we settle on when the crew can come in (sometimes TRB’s stuff has priority). My site is small enough that, in earlier days, the crew would come in at dawn and pick before going on to more significant sites. Now, with the focus on night picking, the guys come here AFTER a night of picking. But it is still at dawn. Then those wonderful men go home to sleep, before getting up to do it all over again.

God, I love it.

[Merrill_Lindquist]

@Carlos Duarte

She is NOT a winemaker. Please, everyone understand this. She owns a house on a vineyard with some cats.

Holy Crow that made meow evening!

Is that the making of a sitcom on HBO[/quote]No, this is how you disgrace and discredit yourself. Mr.Gleason said, upthread, to remind him not to cross me. Talk about anything you have knowledge of, but other than that, please contribute something meaningful.

You and I have met. I offered to help you attain access to your vehicle at an open house at Seven Stones some years ago. I recall that - I guess, based on your maliciousness here, that you do not. I would offer to help you again.

[R_Gilbane]

@Bill Tex Landreth

First off, I trust what Roy has to say in regard to both broad vintage ratings and specific wine recommendations to the effect that his opinions carry more weight than any critic for me these days. He tastes far and wide, and he does have the Napa insider track that he can parlay into early access to things we here cannot. Sure he has some Napa Fanboy bias, but same here in our household. I have tasted with him (been years though) and his palate aligns really well with mine. As for numerical valuations, that of course is purely subjective, but overall impressions are what I am going to base my dollar expenditures on anyway.

Secondly, I had a text conversation this past weekend with another Napa owner/winemaker and he summed up the 2013-2016 vintages pretty well. Although, he gave no points to specific years. Of course that is fine when talking the same language such as tannin, ripeness, extraction, etc. From what I gather, 2016 is a year for me to spend some coin on all up and down the spectrum of Napa wines.

Third, I have had only one 2016 Napa Cab Sauv so far. It was a Textbook Napa Cabernet Sauvignon from two weeks ago tasted side by side with the 2015. Of course it was a baby, but with four hours of air the wine was way approachable and more refined than the 2015. The '15 is still brooding and full of tannin. Based on a minuscule sample size, I prefer this 2016 to its counterpart. Again, I need to go to Napa to taste to make a broad call (I plan to make a venture in Summer to bring some of my Wagyu).

So I’m confused. You’ve tried one bottle from 2016 and this is the only data point you need?

[Merrill_Lindquist]

@Carlos Duarte

She is NOT a winemaker. Please, everyone understand this. She owns a house on a vineyard with some cats.

Holy Crow that made meow evening!

Is that the making of a sitcom on HBO[/quote] I call FUBAR. On you. What is your interest here?

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@R_Gilbane

@Bill Tex Landreth

First off, I trust what Roy has to say in regard to both broad vintage ratings and specific wine recommendations to the effect that his opinions carry more weight than any critic for me these days. He tastes far and wide, and he does have the Napa insider track that he can parlay into early access to things we here cannot. Sure he has some Napa Fanboy bias, but same here in our household. I have tasted with him (been years though) and his palate aligns really well with mine. As for numerical valuations, that of course is purely subjective, but overall impressions are what I am going to base my dollar expenditures on anyway.

Secondly, I had a text conversation this past weekend with another Napa owner/winemaker and he summed up the 2013-2016 vintages pretty well. Although, he gave no points to specific years. Of course that is fine when talking the same language such as tannin, ripeness, extraction, etc. From what I gather, 2016 is a year for me to spend some coin on all up and down the spectrum of Napa wines.

Third, I have had only one 2016 Napa Cab Sauv so far. It was a Textbook Napa Cabernet Sauvignon from two weeks ago tasted side by side with the 2015. Of course it was a baby, but with four hours of air the wine was way approachable and more refined than the 2015. The '15 is still brooding and full of tannin. Based on a minuscule sample size, I prefer this 2016 to its counterpart. Again, I need to go to Napa to taste to make a broad call (I plan to make a venture in Summer to bring some of my Wagyu).

So I’m confused. You’ve tried one bottle from 2016 and this is the only data point you need?

Read the post.

I said I tried same wine from different vintages and need to go to Napa to taste to make an informed decision. Also said based on two people I really trust that ‘16 will see me spend some more money.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

1rlSjdnAKY4

[Merrill_Lindquist]

@Carlos Duarte

She is NOT a winemaker. Please, everyone understand this. She owns a house on a vineyard with some cats.

Holy Crow that made meow evening!

Is that the making of a sitcom on HBO[/quote]No, sir, not a sitcom. I DO own a beautiful home on a BEAUTIFUL piece of land. I do have 2 Black Cats - and a yellow striped one I took in from the cold. Beaten and starved. So now I have 3.
And what or who are YOU, Mr. Duarte, to judge me.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Third time is a charm.