RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

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Don Cornwell
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8751 Post by Don Cornwell » June 22nd, 2020, 7:43 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 2:00 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 12:34 pm
Victor Hong wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 8:35 am


SDNY, which is just a short car ride downtown, seems ideal. Oh, wait,.....
I think it might be hard to get their attention this week.
This was a civil action. I have absolutely no doubt Koch will go after them irrespective of what week it is. Not sure what he can do about it though; it obviously depends on the wording of the agreement, but I have a feeling it will have serious penalties. I hope so.
The Koch v. Royal Wine Merchants lawsuit was filed in the Southern District of Florida, I believe in Miami.

I too hope that Mr. Koch will do something about this and that the Court will shut down Royal Wine Merchants once and for all. However, as you may remember, Koch basically walked away from his litigation against Acker and Rudy a few years ago.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8752 Post by LawrenceM » June 23rd, 2020, 5:40 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 7:43 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 2:00 pm
John Morris wrote:
June 22nd, 2020, 12:34 pm


I think it might be hard to get their attention this week.
This was a civil action. I have absolutely no doubt Koch will go after them irrespective of what week it is. Not sure what he can do about it though; it obviously depends on the wording of the agreement, but I have a feeling it will have serious penalties. I hope so.
The Koch v. Royal Wine Merchants lawsuit was filed in the Southern District of Florida, I believe in Miami.

I too hope that Mr. Koch will do something about this and that the Court will shut down Royal Wine Merchants once and for all. However, as you may remember, Koch basically walked away from his litigation against Acker and Rudy a few years ago.
If Mr. Koch decides that he does not wish to expend personal energies in perusing this cause of action, perhaps he should assign that cause of action to Mr. Cornwell. I would certainly like to see that!
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8753 Post by Jürgen Steinke » June 23rd, 2020, 5:48 am

I agree – Don is a lawyer, right? If so I can´t think of a better one in this case. Don Cornwell ist the perfect man.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8754 Post by Dennis Borczon » June 23rd, 2020, 6:15 am

Obviously the penalties for violating the court injunction must not be that severe. Or else the responsible parties must feel that they have a way out. Or maybe crime is just too addictive to stop. Perhaps they should visit Mr Fox of PC fame. Seems like the only guys who actually went to jail over this fraud were Rudy and John Fox.

So maybe crime does pay?

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8755 Post by John Danza » June 23rd, 2020, 8:59 am

Dennis Borczon wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 6:15 am
Obviously the penalties for violating the court injunction must not be that severe. Or else the responsible parties must feel that they have a way out. Or maybe crime is just too addictive to stop. Perhaps they should visit Mr Fox of PC fame. Seems like the only guys who actually went to jail over this fraud were Rudy and John Fox.

So maybe crime does pay?
I suspect they just figure that no one will notice after all this time. It seems silly to think no one is looking anymore. I guess they don't know Don and Maureen!

Don, does it need to be Koch that engages the court again? I would think that once a court has issued a ruling, anyone can bring it to the court's attention that the mandate is being ignored. It's not like the mandate was only effective for Bill Koch.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8756 Post by John Morris » June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am

John Danza wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 8:59 am
Dennis Borczon wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 6:15 am
Obviously the penalties for violating the court injunction must not be that severe. Or else the responsible parties must feel that they have a way out. Or maybe crime is just too addictive to stop. Perhaps they should visit Mr Fox of PC fame. Seems like the only guys who actually went to jail over this fraud were Rudy and John Fox.

So maybe crime does pay?
I suspect they just figure that no one will notice after all this time. It seems silly to think no one is looking anymore. I guess they don't know Don and Maureen!

Don, does it need to be Koch that engages the court again? I would think that once a court has issued a ruling, anyone can bring it to the court's attention that the mandate is being ignored. It's not like the mandate was only effective for Bill Koch.

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Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8757 Post by Don Cornwell » June 23rd, 2020, 9:54 am

John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am
Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
Yes, that would be my take too. I think Mr. Koch would have to be the person to enforce the injunction. What I find to be an interesting question is what is the penalty for willfully violating a permanent injunction of this type? An Order to shut down the business completely?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8758 Post by John Morris » June 23rd, 2020, 10:49 am

That seems unlikely as a matter of equity. But a contempt hearing and a fine would not be surprising if Koch gets involved.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8759 Post by Troy Stark » June 23rd, 2020, 12:05 pm

John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 10:49 am
That seems unlikely as a matter of equity. But a contempt hearing and a fine would not be surprising if Koch gets involved.
Contempt is a possibility. Another might be arguing there's been a breach of contract entitling the aggrieved party to damages. A third might be that the entire settlement agreement should be voided and litigation resumed.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8760 Post by Glenn Gallup » June 24th, 2020, 5:44 pm

One more time after a long time.
“First you need honest people”
Dad was wrong once in a great while but he hit the nail on the head with that one.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8761 Post by Don Cornwell » June 24th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Glenn Gallup wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 5:44 pm
One more time after a long time.
“First you need honest people”
Dad was wrong once in a great while but he hit the nail on the head with that one.
Hi Glenn! Good to hear from you again. Your sage wisdom is always welcome.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8762 Post by Mark Golodetz » June 24th, 2020, 6:04 pm

Don Cornwell wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:54 am
John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am
Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
Yes, that would be my take too. I think Mr. Koch would have to be the person to enforce the injunction. What I find to be an interesting question is what is the penalty for willfully violating a permanent injunction of this type? An Order to shut down the business completely?
Wouldn’t any half decent lawyer spelled out in the contract the penalties if Royal breached it?
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8763 Post by Don Cornwell » June 24th, 2020, 6:10 pm

Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 6:04 pm
Don Cornwell wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:54 am
John Morris wrote:
June 23rd, 2020, 9:09 am
Calling all civ pro experts!

Although it’s a court order, I’d guess that only Koch has standing to enforce it. The alternative would lead to a crazy state of affairs where anyone could claim a settlement agreement had been violated by the breach of a stipulated injunction, even if the original plaintiff didn’t think so.
Yes, that would be my take too. I think Mr. Koch would have to be the person to enforce the injunction. What I find to be an interesting question is what is the penalty for willfully violating a permanent injunction of this type? An Order to shut down the business completely?
Wouldn’t any half decent lawyer spelled out in the contract the penalties if Royal breached it?
Mark:

Actually, I don't think so. It would be very difficult to spell out all of the different ways in which the injunction might be violated and spell out appropriate penalties for all of the different possibilities. Moreover, Judges usually don't like it when the parties try to dictate to the Court what the penalty will be for violating a Court's order.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8764 Post by Glenn Gallup » June 24th, 2020, 7:18 pm

If you think that was sage wisdom you should hear me when I’ve been cleaning out my cellar.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8765 Post by John Morris » June 25th, 2020, 7:25 am

Don Cornwell wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 6:10 pm
Mark Golodetz wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 6:04 pm
Wouldn’t any half decent lawyer spelled out in the contract the penalties if Royal breached it?
Mark:

Actually, I don't think so. It would be very difficult to spell out all of the different ways in which the injunction might be violated and spell out appropriate penalties for all of the different possibilities. Moreover, Judges usually don't like it when the parties try to dictate to the Court what the penalty will be for violating a Court's order.
Mark: Don is right. It's one thing to spell out in a settlement agreement that, in the event of a breach, the aggrieved party can, say, sue for an injunction or damages, or that any releases given in the agreement are null and void. Some agreements provide for "liquidated damages" so there's no argument about the amount; if you do this, you will have to pay $X. But those are all benefits that accrue to the non-breaching party. If Royal was challenged on the basis that it violated a court order, that's a matter of contempt, and it's the court's prerogative to decide the penalty.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8766 Post by Jan-Willem van der Hek » July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am

Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8767 Post by Victor Hong » July 1st, 2020, 4:16 am

Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8768 Post by Jan-Willem van der Hek » July 1st, 2020, 5:35 am

Victor Hong wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 4:16 am
Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8769 Post by John Danza » July 1st, 2020, 6:38 am

Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
Wow, lot after lot of pristine labels and wrinkled capsules. I love that some of the capsules are even cut off at the top to gain access to the cork. They're not trying very hard.

The 1942 La Tache is sort of funny. First, there's a comment taken from Serene Sutcliff for the 1943 vintage. But this is a 1942! Then you've got the comment "believed late release". Wouldn't you expect the auction house to require proof from the seller, such as a receipt of the ex-domaine purchase or a statement from the domaine?

I guess I'll be unsubscribing to emails from Sotheby's.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8770 Post by Jan-Willem van der Hek » July 1st, 2020, 7:18 am

John Danza wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 6:38 am
Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:28 am
Just checked the Catalogue of coming Sothebys auction The Summit in Hongkong. It's a complete cellar by an American collector who seems to like the really big formats from the rarest wines in the world. Metsulahs '99 Romanee-Conti, '95 Cathelin, jeroboams '93 Cros Parantoux Rouget, magnums '86 Cros Parantoux Jayer etc. Also 6 bottles la tache '42 in pristine condition, it feels to me like to good to be true... Or am I just too suspicious?

You can check the catalogue here: https://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/so ... 26_PDF.pdf
Wow, lot after lot of pristine labels and wrinkled capsules. I love that some of the capsules are even cut off at the top to gain access to the cork. They're not trying very hard.

The 1942 La Tache is sort of funny. First, there's a comment taken from Serene Sutcliff for the 1943 vintage. But this is a 1942! Then you've got the comment "believed late release". Wouldn't you expect the auction house to require proof from the seller, such as a receipt of the ex-domaine purchase or a statement from the domaine?

I guess I'll be unsubscribing to emails from Sotheby's.
Agree! They claim it's all from one cellar and the American collector has a personal relationship with many of the wine producers themselves. If these bottles are real there there should indeed be a statement / tag of proof. Conceirning the 1942 LT, since there's a vineyard designated capsule which normally would appear after '78 they assume it's a late domaine release.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8771 Post by Sean S y d n e y » July 1st, 2020, 7:26 am

Jan-Willem van der Hek wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:18 am

Agree! They claim it's all from one cellar and the American collector has a personal relationship with many of the wine producers themselves. If these bottles are real there there should indeed be a statement / tag of proof. Conceirning the 1942 LT, since there's a vineyard designated capsule which normally would appear after '78 they assume it's a late domaine release.
I am absolutely no expert on these wines and what little I know is mostly gleaned from Don's work, but this immediately caught my eye - as well as the wax coverings on page 8 on almost all of the DRC wines. Did they use wax on larger format bottlings?

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8772 Post by RichardFlack » July 1st, 2020, 7:44 am

Colour me naive, but wouldn’t you think that these days Sotheby’s would be extra careful? You can just imagine the cross examination...
“Did you get documentation on the provenance?”
“Why not?” / “where is it and why wasn’t it published”?
Last edited by RichardFlack on July 1st, 2020, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8773 Post by Don Cornwell » July 1st, 2020, 12:07 pm

RichardFlack wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:44 am
Colour me naive, but wouldn’t you think that these days Sotheby’s would be extra careful? You can just imagine the cross examination...
“Did you get documentation on the provenance?”
“Why not?” / “where is it and why want it published”?
I will take a look, but Jamie Ritchie at Sotheby's is normally exceptionally careful.
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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8774 Post by Andrew Hamilton » July 1st, 2020, 6:15 pm

Sean S y d n e y wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:26 am
I am absolutely no expert on these wines and what little I know is mostly gleaned from Don's work, but this immediately caught my eye - as well as the wax coverings on page 8 on almost all of the DRC wines. Did they use wax on larger format bottlings?
Yea, the wax being removed from the top of the bottles looks quite suspect imho. If I were in the position of needing to remove wax to confirm the cork was correct for any of those bottles I suspect I'd work up from the neck instead of going top down.

Image
That sounds about right.
Probably for the best.
They had a good run.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8775 Post by Andrew Hamilton » July 1st, 2020, 9:59 pm

Just had a look at some DRC cork pics (and compared it to the one pic I've taken close enough to see details clearly) and it appears that DRC corks list the vintage on the side of the cork near the base. Here's an example from their 2011's.

Image

I'm now downright baffled as to why the wax on top of those bottles in my previous post has been removed.
That sounds about right.
Probably for the best.
They had a good run.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8776 Post by Arvid Rosengren » July 2nd, 2020, 9:02 am

Andrew Hamilton wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 9:59 pm
Just had a look at some DRC cork pics (and compared it to the one pic I've taken close enough to see details clearly) and it appears that DRC corks list the vintage on the side of the cork near the base. Here's an example from their 2011's.

Image

I'm now downright baffled as to why the wax on top of those bottles in my previous post has been removed.
It's entirely possible that it's just broken off and it's not a conscious effort. Happens a lot in transport or just moving things around the cellar. Maybe seepage (also not uncommon with "overfilling" Domaines) related?

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8777 Post by Larry Stein » July 2nd, 2020, 9:08 am

I just checked out some of that catalog. If I had known then (part 355)...I paid $24/btl on release for '80 Henri Jayer Echezeaux. Hell, I could pay off the rest of my mortgage if I still had a case (I have none left).

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8778 Post by Larry Stein » July 2nd, 2020, 12:15 pm

I was told I probably paid $24 for '80 Cros Parantoux and that my cost for Echezeaux would've been ~$35. But still...

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8779 Post by ERPark » July 2nd, 2020, 2:53 pm

Larry Stein wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:15 pm
I was told I probably paid $24 for '80 Cros Parantoux and that my cost for Echezeaux would've been ~$35. But still...
Ya coulda been rich, but ya p!$$€d it all away instead!

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8780 Post by John Ammons » July 2nd, 2020, 11:04 pm

ERPark wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 2:53 pm
Larry Stein wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 12:15 pm
I was told I probably paid $24 for '80 Cros Parantoux and that my cost for Echezeaux would've been ~$35. But still...
Ya coulda been rich, but ya p!$$€d it all away instead!

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8781 Post by Larry Stein » July 3rd, 2020, 6:33 am

FWIW, those wines were sold to me by a Deadhead. He and I are still close friends.

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Re: RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

#8782 Post by Don Cornwell » July 4th, 2020, 2:24 am

RichardFlack wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 7:44 am
Colour me naive, but wouldn’t you think that these days Sotheby’s would be extra careful? You can just imagine the cross examination...
“Did you get documentation on the provenance?”
“Why not?” / “where is it and why wasn’t it published”?
The biggest problems are: (1) the photography in the catalog is awful and on many bottles the resolution is so bad you can't even read details on the labels; and (2) the photographer and/or the idiot who put the catalog together really shifted the color balance substantially and messed up the colors throughout the catalog (e.g. DRC and Roumier have never had brown bottles). I'm also never happy seeing Clark Riedel import stickers -- and there are a lot of them here.
Don Cornwell
Oxidized Burgs Wiki
http://www.gdeschamps.net/wiki/doku.php?id=start

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