U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

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U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#1 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 26th, 2020, 5:54 pm

So I’m unpacking my Dirty and Rowdy Mourvedre from the Berserker Relief package, dropping Sir Wallace an email note on what to pop first, and it hit me, I wonder what he drinks. Is he a fan, like me, of old world Mourvedre, the game, the funk, the chewy meaty red-fruit qualities. These are things that I love about Beaucastel, Bandol, Barral, et al.

Side note, a note on a Barral that rocked my little ivory tower:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115727&p=1764801&hi ... l#p1764801


I didn’t ask Hardy, but thought about it later. Curious.

So, Winemakers, when you are not drinking your own stuff, and those of your local friends, what European wines are you drinking, which ones do you love, what moves you?

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#2 Post by AD Northup » March 26th, 2020, 6:06 pm

Love this question, following this thread closely now
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#3 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » March 26th, 2020, 6:55 pm

Where to begin!!!

Champagne:
Lassaigne, Agraparte(as much as I love Lassaigne, if there could be only one, it would be Agraparte), Larmandier-Bernier, Lallement, Diebolt-Vallois BdB(and a bit of 2010), Doyard BdB, Bereche, Jacquesson, and Marc Hebrart. Plus some dabbling.

Loire:
Chenin-Chat. Belliviere, Thibaud Bourdignon(Savennieres and Anjou Blanc), Clos Naudin, Dom. Du Closel, and Francois Chidaine(beginning with the 98 vintage).
Sauvignon-Cotat, Vatan, Dagueneau, Crochet.
Cab Franc-Baudry, Raffault, Germain, Breton, and back in the day Rougeard. I generally love Saumur though and will try and enjoy many wines from there whose producer I will never remember. I’ll also try anything Scott Tallman brings down from Seattle with him.
Germany: what’s not to love? My faves though are Hexamer, Donnhoff, Merkelbach, Prum, Willi Shaefer, Karl Loewen, Markus Molitor, and Karthauserhoff.
Austria: Alzinger and Schloss Gobelsberg

Beaujolais: Cote de Brouilly(especially Thivin), Foillard, Dominique Piron(especially his Chenas bottling), Clos de la Roilette(regular and tardive). I like and have enjoyed many less well known Bojo producers, it’s one of the great charms of the region. I avoid Lapierre and Metras.

Burgundy: this lifetime or the one where I could afford Rousseau?
White: Carillon, Dauvisaat, Raveneau(last lifetime), Picq(this lifetime), Mikulski, Roulot, Jobard(not lately), Louis Michel MdT.
Rouge: Rousseau, Barthod, Chandon de Briailles, Gouge, Dujac, Arnoux, Dom. de l’Arlot,...many more.

Rhone:
Northern-you bring it and I’ll try it. I buy/used to buy Graillot, Clape, Verset, Robert Michel, Juge, Jasmin.
Southern-I used to. I got off the bus after 2007 and have not gotten back on.

Rioja-Lopez de Heredia, Muga. I’m out of date here, but love the old school wines. When I started the winery, my disposable income became indisposed...as I have slowed the sucking chest wound of cash flow some areas have recovered but Spain hasn’t yet.

Piemonte-I love these wines, and my own wines, because of the high percentage of stem use, have a leaning to the style of Piemonte. But this is the region I am most focused on regaining my understanding of. I’m drinking as wide a range of Piemontese wines as I can, but staying away from the star power.

Bordeaux-Leoville Barton, Pichon Lalande, and most of the commune of Margaux that is less than $150.

Japan: my favorite sake breweries are Shichida and Shichi Hon Yari (overseas, if not grapes...)
Last edited by Marcus Goodfellow on March 26th, 2020, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#4 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 26th, 2020, 6:59 pm

Ha. I should have asked you, “what doesn’t Marcus drink!?!” Great list!

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#5 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » March 26th, 2020, 7:07 pm

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 6:59 pm
Ha. I should have asked you, “what doesn’t Marcus drink!?!” Great list!
What can I say, I love to see other people’s work.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#6 Post by Michael Sterling » March 26th, 2020, 7:18 pm

My wife and I are currently drinking only domestic producers for the year, but...
Marie Courtin (esp the Eloquence Blanc de blanc), Foillard, Maison Harbour (need to order more, Nick) are always in the ready.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#7 Post by Steve Carson » March 26th, 2020, 8:03 pm

Virtually none. When there are wine get togethers with other industry folks (production side), usually people bring a bottle of their own. People trade/give/buy at industry discount each other's wine. It's a lot of familiar labels. Which is just as well, because it's good to keep an eye on the competition as well as seeing what's new and exciting.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#8 Post by H Wallace Jr » March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm

Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking). Old Tempier vineyard designates and older Pradeaux are definite favs. I enjoy Leon Barral though I seem to prefer the wines more on the younger side vs. older. Though I pop these wines pretty often (2ish times a month?) I usually plan them out in advance w dinner and guests.

When I casually pop something at home, I go for refreshing, terroir driven, and thought provoking.

For N. Rhone, we drink a lot of Hervé Souhaut both reds and whites. My son is named after Hervé Souhaut and the family has become friends over the years. More classic in style, I like the Faury wines (including the Condrieu), more natty, Dard & Ribot.

Heading E. I drink a good deal of L'Anglore (Eric Pfifferling) and Maxime Magnon. I feel they are both masters of brightness, lift, while still being deeply connected to their dirt.

For about 10yrs I feel like I drank a ton of Beaujolais, Jura, and Champagne, but find I drink less of these now that I make less frequent trips to SF / OAK.

In an odd turn (one that I never thought would happen) I probably drink almost 50-60% domestic wine now. Domestic or not, I want to dedicate a good chunk of my drinking time enjoying wines made by people I know and love.
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#9 Post by Todd Hamina » March 26th, 2020, 11:19 pm

I would say the two producers that I have worked through dozens of cases of are Ecard and La Nerthe.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#10 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 27th, 2020, 3:14 am

Hardy I can see from your style while you like Souhaut. I’m not sure how that wine fell off my radar, I guess two of my go-to retailers stopped carrying them (just checked). I need to get back at them. The gamay, by the way, is really good, unique and generally quite fresh and soulful.

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#11 Post by Merrill Lindquist » March 27th, 2020, 6:32 am

Champagne. Lots of it.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#12 Post by Travis @llen » March 27th, 2020, 6:42 am

Some of my favorite wine producers can be expensive in good vintages, so I may only buy 1 bottle, but then in 'off' vintages they can be a fraction of the price so I'll buy a few - and I am happy to have these wines is in my glass, regardless of vintage.
Probably the highest consumption by volume is riesling, Austria has a slight edge over Germany. These dry wines always hit the spot, and I think they go well with just about anything on the table. Gobelsburg, Brundlmeyer, Nikolaihof, Knoll, Alzinger, Nigl, Hirsch. Donnhoff (the tonischeifer is a contender for best value in the world), Von Winning, Diel.
Northern Rhone is my favorite region. Gangloff is my favorite (he is now consulting on my Viognier and Syrah), Gonon, Delas, Courbis, Clape, Jamet (love their CDR as well), Cuilleron, Villard, Faury... The list goes on and on.
Beaujolais: Foillard, Lapierre, Lapalu
Spain. So much variety coming out of spain. In priorat Nin Ortiz is exceptional, Clos Mogador, Terroir al limit. Ribera - Vega Sicilia, Rioja - Muga, Artadi. Bierzo- Palacios.
White Burg - Boisson Vadot. And if I see a decent price on a restaurant list I'll go for a Ramonet.
Champagne (my wife's favorite): Pierre Peters, Egly Ouriet, Jose Michel, Roederer (brut nature)
Italy: Terlan whites, Quintarelli. Burlotto (Sauv Blanc, pelaverga, and of course the whole cluster monvigliero Barolo), Sandrone, Il Caberlot
Sicily: Occhipinti, Benanti
Southern France: Tempier, Ott, Baral, Gros Nore.
Australia - Sami Odi
South Africa - Sadie Family, Mullineaux
Jura - Tissot, Ganevat - when I can find/afford it.
Southern Rhone: Beaucastel whites, Font du loup (leaner styled beautiful wines), pegau, Chateau de Tours (Priced out of Rayas - but this wine is totally in the house style).
BDX - Used to be my favorite, not as excited to buy lately, but still enjoy the wines when I drink them. Hosanna (serious cab franc herbs), Pontet Canet, Leoville (all of them).
The above producers I buy at least one bottle per year (except the BDX for the last few years). I'm also a bargain shopper, so if I see great prices there are at least twice as many other producers that I'll stock up on.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#13 Post by Tom DeBiase » March 27th, 2020, 7:13 am

H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking). Old Tempier vineyard designates and older Pradeaux are definite favs. I enjoy Leon Barral though I seem to prefer the wines more on the younger side vs. older. Though I pop these wines pretty often (2ish times a month?) I usually plan them out in advance w dinner and guests.

When I casually pop something at home, I go for refreshing, terroir driven, and thought provoking.

For N. Rhone, we drink a lot of Hervé Souhaut both reds and whites. My son is named after Hervé Souhaut and the family has become friends over the years. More classic in style, I like the Faury wines (including the Condrieu), more natty, Dard & Ribot.

Heading E. I drink a good deal of L'Anglore (Eric Pfifferling) and Maxime Magnon. I feel they are both masters of brightness, lift, while still being deeply connected to their dirt.

For about 10yrs I feel like I drank a ton of Beaujolais, Jura, and Champagne, but find I drink less of these now that I make less frequent trips to SF / OAK.

In an odd turn (one that I never thought would happen) I probably drink almost 50-60% domestic wine now. Domestic or not, I want to dedicate a good chunk of my drinking time enjoying wines made by people I know and love.
This for sure. When one gets to know, understand and enjoy wines made by caring people in a particular region or country it alters previous buying decisions. For me that would be many domestic (mostly Sonoma) wines.

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#14 Post by I. Howe » March 27th, 2020, 7:30 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:54 pm
Side note, a note on a Barral that rocked my little ivory tower:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115727&p=1764801&hi ... l#p1764801
I drank the 2013 of that wine last week. It was so good.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#15 Post by Frank Murray III » March 27th, 2020, 8:58 am

Michael Sterling wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 7:18 pm
My wife and I are currently drinking only domestic producers for the year, but...
Marie Courtin (esp the Eloquence Blanc de blanc), Foillard, Maison Harbour (need to order more, Nick) are always in the ready.
Michael, I love the shout out for Marie Courtin. One of my favorite Champagne producers too, bottle after bottle. I too love the Chardonnay bottling called Eloquence. It was one of the best Champagnes I had in 2019.

Will have to taste your wines sometime...never tried them. Thanks for posting, too.
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2017 Rivers-Marie PN Platt SC
2009 Roederer Cristal Brut

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#16 Post by Vince T » March 27th, 2020, 9:26 am

H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking). Old Tempier vineyard designates and older Pradeaux are definite favs. I enjoy Leon Barral though I seem to prefer the wines more on the younger side vs. older. Though I pop these wines pretty often (2ish times a month?) I usually plan them out in advance w dinner and guests.

When I casually pop something at home, I go for refreshing, terroir driven, and thought provoking.

For N. Rhone, we drink a lot of Hervé Souhaut both reds and whites. My son is named after Hervé Souhaut and the family has become friends over the years. More classic in style, I like the Faury wines (including the Condrieu), more natty, Dard & Ribot.

Heading E. I drink a good deal of L'Anglore (Eric Pfifferling) and Maxime Magnon. I feel they are both masters of brightness, lift, while still being deeply connected to their dirt.

For about 10yrs I feel like I drank a ton of Beaujolais, Jura, and Champagne, but find I drink less of these now that I make less frequent trips to SF / OAK.

In an odd turn (one that I never thought would happen) I probably drink almost 50-60% domestic wine now. Domestic or not, I want to dedicate a good chunk of my drinking time enjoying wines made by people I know and love.
I had my first L'Anglore a couple months ago in Paris, and I was scratching my head trying to think of which Bandol of finesse that it reminded of. Fast forward to two weeks ago, when I listened to your episode of IDTT for the first time... It hit me like a ton of bricks (in the best possible way) that it was the 2016 D&R Shake Ridge that it reminded me of!
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#17 Post by Brian S t o t t e r » March 27th, 2020, 9:46 am

A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#18 Post by H Wallace Jr » March 27th, 2020, 10:02 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 3:14 am
Hardy I can see from your style while you like Souhaut. I’m not sure how that wine fell off my radar, I guess two of my go-to retailers stopped carrying them (just checked). I need to get back at them. The gamay, by the way, is really good, unique and generally quite fresh and soulful.
Thank you- I love those wines and that family. The gamay is always a favorite. On a side note, one of the best blind tasting moments I've witnessed was Levi Dalton blinding this at a lunch at Arnot-Roberts about 5 years ago after never previously tasting the wine. Paraphrasing- "This doesn't make anybody sense but it is Gamay from the Northern Rhone" (Ardeche, close enough).
Vince T wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 9:26 am
I had my first L'Anglore a couple months ago in Paris, and I was scratching my head trying to think of which Bandol of finesse that it reminded of. Fast forward to two weeks ago, when I listened to your episode of IDTT for the first time... It hit me like a ton of bricks (in the best possible way) that it was the 2016 D&R Shake Ridge that it reminded me of!
[worship.gif] Thanks so much. That is a huge compliment. [cheers.gif] Wait until you try the '19 Grenache. :)
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#19 Post by Vincent Fritzsche » March 27th, 2020, 10:26 am

I know you mentioned overseas, but how about outside one's home region or state?

Before the lockdown, I drove solo through the coastal valleys of my native California and saw places I hadn't seen since moving to Oregon 20 years ago. That experience has me digging through new and old California wines, from makers as diverse as Carlisle and Dashe to Joseph Swan and Liquid Farm.

Of course I enjoy lots of European wines, some recent ones:

NV Dolores Cabrera Fernandez "La Araucaria" from the Canary Islands - wild and gamy, floral, the good side of natty
2010 Pierre Guillemot Savigny les Beaune "Aux Serpentieres" - surprisingly evolved and delicate, maybe an off bottle (or no?) but still tasty
2016 Clot de L'Oum "La Compagnie des Papillons" - Grenache etc. blend from Roussillon that's bright and fresh, stony, a touch of stems I think, good not great
2010 Ch. Vincent (lol) Margaux - a Lyle Fass import, modern but good house Bordeaux from the cellar at Palmer, part of a metayage deal with a vineyard they work with. Obviously young still and a touch warm, but good with steak.
2005 Jean Tardy Vosne Romanee "Vigneaux" - an Envoyer special a while back, very nice and focused, young with some whole cluster showing, wish I had more!
2017 Vajra Langhe Rosso - a classic value wine, always good
2013 Droin Chablis "Vaillons" - young and fresh 1er Chablis, no rush, classic
2015 Clos Canarelli Blanc - I love Corsica and this is among the finest

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#20 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 27th, 2020, 10:34 am

H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 10:02 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 3:14 am
Hardy I can see from your style while you like Souhaut. I’m not sure how that wine fell off my radar, I guess two of my go-to retailers stopped carrying them (just checked). I need to get back at them. The gamay, by the way, is really good, unique and generally quite fresh and soulful.
Thank you- I love those wines and that family. The gamay is always a favorite. On a side note, one of the best blind tasting moments I've witnessed was Levi Dalton blinding this at a lunch at Arnot-Roberts about 5 years ago after never previously tasting the wine. Paraphrasing- "This doesn't make anybody sense but it is Gamay from the Northern Rhone" (Ardeche, close enough).
Vince T wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 9:26 am
I had my first L'Anglore a couple months ago in Paris, and I was scratching my head trying to think of which Bandol of finesse that it reminded of. Fast forward to two weeks ago, when I listened to your episode of IDTT for the first time... It hit me like a ton of bricks (in the best possible way) that it was the 2016 D&R Shake Ridge that it reminded me of!
[worship.gif] Thanks so much. That is a huge compliment. [cheers.gif] Wait until you try the '19 Grenache. :)

Just did some searching, wow has the Souhaut gamay bumped up in price. I was grabbing it for $25 just a couple years ago and now it is $40+. That’s a harder sell when I have Thivin, a meaty style, and Bouland, which often feels like a Northern Rhône gamay, for sub-$30.

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#21 Post by H Wallace Jr » March 27th, 2020, 11:25 am

Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 10:34 am
H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 10:02 am
Robert.A.Jr. wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 3:14 am
Hardy I can see from your style while you like Souhaut. I’m not sure how that wine fell off my radar, I guess two of my go-to retailers stopped carrying them (just checked). I need to get back at them. The gamay, by the way, is really good, unique and generally quite fresh and soulful.
Thank you- I love those wines and that family. The gamay is always a favorite. On a side note, one of the best blind tasting moments I've witnessed was Levi Dalton blinding this at a lunch at Arnot-Roberts about 5 years ago after never previously tasting the wine. Paraphrasing- "This doesn't make anybody sense but it is Gamay from the Northern Rhone" (Ardeche, close enough).
Vince T wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 9:26 am
I had my first L'Anglore a couple months ago in Paris, and I was scratching my head trying to think of which Bandol of finesse that it reminded of. Fast forward to two weeks ago, when I listened to your episode of IDTT for the first time... It hit me like a ton of bricks (in the best possible way) that it was the 2016 D&R Shake Ridge that it reminded me of!
[worship.gif] Thanks so much. That is a huge compliment. [cheers.gif] Wait until you try the '19 Grenache. :)

Just did some searching, wow has the Souhaut gamay bumped up in price. I was grabbing it for $25 just a couple years ago and now it is $40+. That’s a harder sell when I have Thivin, a meaty style, and Bouland, which often feels like a Northern Rhône gamay, for sub-$30.
$40 is pretty strong pricing- Most places I see it are $30-$34. With the recent 25% tariffs, $30-$34 is the $25 of a few years ago.
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/herv ... e/2018/usa

This wine scratches a different itch for me than Bojo.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#22 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 27th, 2020, 11:28 am

Oh shoot, I was focused on 2016 vintage, a yummy one. Glad to see 2018 much cheaper but I’m uncertain about this vintage and it’s ripeness. Was just disappointed with Bouland’s flagship cuvee, Delys 1926.

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#23 Post by Neal.Mollen » March 27th, 2020, 11:47 am

Great idea for a thread Robert. Reading with interest
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#24 Post by Doug Schulman » March 27th, 2020, 11:49 am

H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking).

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#25 Post by Doug Schulman » March 27th, 2020, 11:50 am

Can you explain this a bit?

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#26 Post by Michael Sterling » March 27th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Frank Murray III wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 8:58 am

Michael, I love the shout out for Marie Courtin. One of my favorite Champagne producers too, bottle after bottle. I too love the Chardonnay bottling called Eloquence. It was one of the best Champagnes I had in 2019.

Will have to taste your wines sometime...never tried them. Thanks for posting, too.
Frank, my wife nailed it when she said the Eloquence was like the feeling in the air right before a lightning strike. I think of that every time we open a bottle
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#27 Post by Frank Murray III » March 27th, 2020, 6:40 pm

Michael Sterling wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 5:42 pm
Frank Murray III wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 8:58 am

Michael, I love the shout out for Marie Courtin. One of my favorite Champagne producers too, bottle after bottle. I too love the Chardonnay bottling called Eloquence. It was one of the best Champagnes I had in 2019.

Will have to taste your wines sometime...never tried them. Thanks for posting, too.
Frank, my wife nailed it when she said the Eloquence was like the feeling in the air right before a lightning strike. I think of that every time we open a bottle
My god, that is brilliant. You ought to send that to Dominique Moreau, who is the owner/winemaker for Marie Courtin. I bet she would dig hearing that, Michael. [thumbs-up.gif]
Last edited by Frank Murray III on March 28th, 2020, 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
My best wines for 2020:
2014 Marie Courtin Champagne Efflorescence Extra Brut
2012 Minière F & R Champagne Influence Brut

My best wines for 2019:
2014 Marie Courtin Eloquence BdB Extra Brut
2017 Rivers-Marie PN Platt SC
2009 Roederer Cristal Brut

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#28 Post by Robert.A.Jr. » March 27th, 2020, 6:49 pm

I can see Hardy’s admiration for Souhaut. Popped one of his Mourvèdre tonight. Pure, transparent. Total soil-to-glass transfer, or as the AFWE snobs likes to say, STGT. This country bumpkin just says, “shucks, this here wine taste like fresh yardbird off the lawn”. I honestly have no idea what that means, but this wine is excellent.

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#29 Post by H Wallace Jr » March 27th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Doug Schulman wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 11:49 am
H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking).
Sure. Please keep in mind I also love, collect, and drink a ton of wines made in the ways below.
We are almost always 100% Mourvèdre vs. blended (by AOC rules Bandol must be a blended wine)
We are 100% whole cluster vs. destemmed
Lots of whole berry fermentation / partial carbonic vs. traditional maceration \
Lower octane- we are more often 13% or under vs. 14.5% and over
Shorter elevage (6-11 months for us) vs a mandated 20+ months in Bandol
Smaller vessels for elevage- we us 255L - 600L vs massive Foudre.

Our sites are radically different. With the exception of 1 of our vineyards, all of our D&R Mourvèdre vineyards are at higher elevation than Bandol and our vineyards are much further away from the coast. They are on mostly a mix of clay and limestone and we only have limestone (with granite vs. clay) on only 2 of our sites.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#30 Post by Vincent Fritzsche » March 27th, 2020, 11:23 pm

Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 9:46 am
A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.
Missed this earlier. I might have expected to say yes to this question but the truth is no. I guess it turns out I make my wine the way I do and that’s it. I love wines from all over, and honestly from a lot of different approaches. I don’t really taste other wines and think, I want to do “that.” It can feel like reaching, like trying to be something else than these wines are. That said, of course there’s influence. Perhaps more on what not to do or what not to be worried about. The old masters seem to take most things in stride. That influence I’m very open to.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#31 Post by Doug Schulman » March 28th, 2020, 4:38 am

H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 7:21 pm
Doug Schulman wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 11:49 am
H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Robert,

I drink a lot of older old world Mourvèdre. I love those wines (though I take an almost opposite approach in our winemaking).
Sure. Please keep in mind I also love, collect, and drink a ton of wines made in the ways below.
We are almost always 100% Mourvèdre vs. blended (by AOC rules Bandol must be a blended wine)
We are 100% whole cluster vs. destemmed
Lots of whole berry fermentation / partial carbonic vs. traditional maceration \
Lower octane- we are more often 13% or under vs. 14.5% and over
Shorter elevage (6-11 months for us) vs a mandated 20+ months in Bandol
Smaller vessels for elevage- we us 255L - 600L vs massive Foudre.

Our sites are radically different. With the exception of 1 of our vineyards, all of our D&R Mourvèdre vineyards are at higher elevation than Bandol and our vineyards are much further away from the coast. They are on mostly a mix of clay and limestone and we only have limestone (with granite vs. clay) on only 2 of our sites.
Thanks!

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#32 Post by Howard Cooper » March 28th, 2020, 4:41 am

H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
older Pradeaux are definite favs.
At what age do you typically drink Pradeaux. I love their wines but am not sure I have shown enough patience with them.
Howard

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#33 Post by Jim Cowan » March 28th, 2020, 5:19 am

Chablis.
A lot of it.
Best, Jim
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#34 Post by H Wallace Jr » March 28th, 2020, 10:15 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 4:41 am
H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
older Pradeaux are definite favs.
At what age do you typically drink Pradeaux. I love their wines but am not sure I have shown enough patience with them.
I've been drinking 89-94 and those are mostly in the zone. I recently opened an 01 and it was stunning, but still mostly primary (though the tannins had mellowed). If I have something substantial on the table, I'm also not afraid to pop one young. It is just a different experience.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#35 Post by Howard Cooper » March 28th, 2020, 12:57 pm

H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 10:15 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 4:41 am
H Wallace Jr wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm
older Pradeaux are definite favs.
At what age do you typically drink Pradeaux. I love their wines but am not sure I have shown enough patience with them.
I've been drinking 89-94 and those are mostly in the zone. I recently opened an 01 and it was stunning, but still mostly primary (though the tannins had mellowed). If I have something substantial on the table, I'm also not afraid to pop one young. It is just a different experience.
Thanks, mine are still younger than that - by a good bit. I started buying it when we visited in 2007.
Howard

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#36 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » March 28th, 2020, 3:06 pm

Vincent Fritzsche wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 11:23 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 9:46 am
A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.
Missed this earlier. I might have expected to say yes to this question but the truth is no. I guess it turns out I make my wine the way I do and that’s it. I love wines from all over, and honestly from a lot of different approaches. I don’t really taste other wines and think, I want to do “that.” It can feel like reaching, like trying to be something else than these wines are. That said, of course there’s influence. Perhaps more on what not to do or what not to be worried about. The old masters seem to take most things in stride. That influence I’m very open to.
This is an interesting question. Depends upon whether you mean specifically in the cellar vs stylistic influence.

Almost all of my wines are directly influenced by the overseas wines that I admire.

I admire the restraint of Merkelbach and their disassociation from modern pressures toward opulence in wines. I admire the precision and clarity of Hexamer, and the texture and tranquility of Donnhoff and Molitor(which is why all of my Riesling based wines are done in wood). All of these things are a focus in what I seek for my own wines.

For Chardonnay, I admired Cameron’s Chardonnays locally and many white Burgundy producers. My move into Chardonnay in Oregon was 100% based upon the belief that I could make the quality of wine that I was tasting in my favorite Burgundian producers. My vineyard choices are 100% influenced towards moving the fruit to mature flavors at low brix, better dry extract, and maintaining higher levels of tartaric and modest levels of malic acid in the fruit. That’s definitely influenced by the entire array of my favorite overseas producers.

My choice to use high amounts of whole cluster was heavily influenced by Steve Doerner at Cristom. But he was heavily influenced by Dujac. Chandon de Briailles and De l’Arlot also influenced my choice to stems. And to my aspiration for red fruited wines both silky and structured.

Last, the Willamette Valley obviously has it’s own terroir, and farming is a big impact in fruit ripening. My choice to be 100% dry farmed is influenced by French producers who lose their AOC if they irrigate.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#37 Post by Marcus Goodfellow » March 28th, 2020, 3:07 pm

Vincent Fritzsche wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 11:23 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 9:46 am
A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.
Missed this earlier. I might have expected to say yes to this question but the truth is no. I guess it turns out I make my wine the way I do and that’s it. I love wines from all over, and honestly from a lot of different approaches. I don’t really taste other wines and think, I want to do “that.” It can feel like reaching, like trying to be something else than these wines are. That said, of course there’s influence. Perhaps more on what not to do or what not to be worried about. The old masters seem to take most things in stride. That influence I’m very open to.
...I’s also say that if you use barriques for Pinot Noir, then you have been influenced by Burgundy...
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#38 Post by robert creth » March 28th, 2020, 3:11 pm

My question, which would be difficult to get responses, is the reverse. Which American wines are drunk by old world and other new world wine makers. Do they even look this way?

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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#39 Post by Joshua Kates » March 28th, 2020, 3:37 pm

I've been told, back in the day, the Barolo producers beside Piedmont, drank only Burgundy (and that of course only occasionally). Great thread!
Thanks to everyone for posting.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#40 Post by Mel Knox » March 28th, 2020, 6:54 pm

A lot of winemakers I know drink their own wines...because they get a deal. They also drink their buddies' wines, because they can do trades. This is important if you have a wife, kids and a mortgage. The other thing I see is that cab makers drink other cabs/merlots etc., including wines from Bordeaux. Pinot makers buy...guess what...Burgundy.

Winemakers in Burgundy don't have to buy American/Australian/NZ/RSA wines because so many visitors leave their wines when they visit.
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#41 Post by Cody Rasmussen » March 29th, 2020, 10:23 am

Love this question! We drink 90% Old World at home, and of that probably 60-70% is French. Germany second, followed by Italy and Spain.

All of our wines are influenced in some way by producers we admire abroad. When we choose various techniques in the vineyards and cellar, we do so with an understanding of how other folks are using those techniques, and to what ends. Winemaking as craft.

Like Marcus, I too love Riesling fermented in neutral wood, rather than stainless. I generally like the spice and texture that come from stems in the Northern Rhone and Burgundy, so we use them in varying degrees - more in Syrah (50-100%), less in Carignan (30-40%), with Mourvedre somewhere in the middle. Old vines, large format barrels, less new oak, fewer rackings - all variables that we dialed in early on based on what we liked to drink.

But, I do find that my attention shifts every couple years. Sometimes I think it’s analogous to writing: you read one author for a month and find that your writing suddenly sounds like theirs, and then it changes when you start reading someone else. I drank Riesling to the exclusion of all else initially (Donnhoff, Lauer, Koehler-Ruprecht, Keller, Becker, Shafer-Frohlich, and Willi Schafer), and then had an infatuation with Cote Rotie, Cornas, and St. Joseph (Jamet, Levet, Gonon, Gripa, Pierres Seches, Gilles, Robert Michel), followed by crunchy Beaujolais (Thivin, Tardive) and then more recently realized that I adore Saumur, Montlouis, and Chinon. I hated oxidative white wines initially but Fino has really grown on me, as has the Jura. It all makes me wonder if I’ll one day wake up and suddenly love bretty wines [shock.gif] :-o
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Re: U.S. Winemakers - What Overseas Wines do you Drink?

#42 Post by Vincent Fritzsche » March 29th, 2020, 11:58 am

Marcus Goodfellow wrote:
March 28th, 2020, 3:06 pm
Vincent Fritzsche wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 11:23 pm
Brian S t o t t e r wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 9:46 am
A follow-up question for the thread: are there certain overseas wines you find that really influence your house style? I know Hardy said that he takes an opposite approach in winemaking to old world mourvedre, but curious what others have to say.
Missed this earlier. I might have expected to say yes to this question but the truth is no. I guess it turns out I make my wine the way I do and that’s it. I love wines from all over, and honestly from a lot of different approaches. I don’t really taste other wines and think, I want to do “that.” It can feel like reaching, like trying to be something else than these wines are. That said, of course there’s influence. Perhaps more on what not to do or what not to be worried about. The old masters seem to take most things in stride. That influence I’m very open to.
This is an interesting question. Depends upon whether you mean specifically in the cellar vs stylistic influence.

Almost all of my wines are directly influenced by the overseas wines that I admire.

I admire the restraint of Merkelbach and their disassociation from modern pressures toward opulence in wines. I admire the precision and clarity of Hexamer, and the texture and tranquility of Donnhoff and Molitor(which is why all of my Riesling based wines are done in wood). All of these things are a focus in what I seek for my own wines.

For Chardonnay, I admired Cameron’s Chardonnays locally and many white Burgundy producers. My move into Chardonnay in Oregon was 100% based upon the belief that I could make the quality of wine that I was tasting in my favorite Burgundian producers. My vineyard choices are 100% influenced towards moving the fruit to mature flavors at low brix, better dry extract, and maintaining higher levels of tartaric and modest levels of malic acid in the fruit. That’s definitely influenced by the entire array of my favorite overseas producers.

My choice to use high amounts of whole cluster was heavily influenced by Steve Doerner at Cristom. But he was heavily influenced by Dujac. Chandon de Briailles and De l’Arlot also influenced my choice to stems. And to my aspiration for red fruited wines both silky and structured.

Last, the Willamette Valley obviously has it’s own terroir, and farming is a big impact in fruit ripening. My choice to be 100% dry farmed is influenced by French producers who lose their AOC if they irrigate.
You make good points, of course. I’m seeing a distinction between the tradition I work in and influence of specific wines and the specific techniques of those makers on my approach. What I’m getting at is that I don’t have any particular wines that I’m aiming for in my making. I remember talking to a wine geek about Lapierre’s Morgon and they suggested, you must make your Gamay the same way, right? And no, not at all was my answer. I was a little let down by my answer tbh. Maybe I should do more of that he does? But I don’t know anyone who’s making Gamay the way I do - not that I’m so different and better for it, rather I’m not thinking of anyone’s Gamay when I make mine. I’m following a broad tradition yes, but really I’m after what the wine is from the grapes here, in an open top natural fermentation without lots of mixing. Honestly sometimes that seems to sound stupid or anti intellectual or I don’t know. But any time I think - maybe I should do what XYZ does, I just come up blank, not inspired, feeling more karaoke than inspiration. Hope that makes sense. And I don’t mean to suggest that you or others ARE doing karaoke. Not at all, just to be clear. Rather I think we largely agree and I’m revealing a possible gap in my wine approach that time may fill in.
Vincent - ITB

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