Help build a new collection

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
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Dinesh Goyal
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Help build a new collection

#1 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 11th, 2018, 5:12 am

All, we will soon be moving to NYC. I want to build a cellar (if you want to call it that) centered around US, and some European, wines. 40% Pinot, 30% Cab and rest everything else.

For the last 4 years I have mostly focused on Aussie Pinots and Chardonnays. Small producers (mostly 1000 to 10000 cases an year), slightly eccentric, don’t care about year-on-year variation, natural but not defective, reds that look almost like rose etc etc. That’s not to say I don’t like big Cabernets. However not into rich Barossa style Shiraz.

Looking to start with about 50 cases with 2/3rd being under $50 a bottle and rest being above $50. ($50-$100 and $100-$200).

For Cabs I prefer slightly fresh/crunchy Cabs over really dark/oaky cabs. I recently tried Scarecrow M Etain, which was delicious.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#2 Post by GregT » September 11th, 2018, 8:18 am

You want to build a cellar and you already have the parameters laid out? In that case, why not just go buy those things? There are lots of threads here on all of those kinds of wines. Asking the way you did is going to get a lot of lists that are going to be fairly random in the aggregate. I'd look at a few threads and figure out which wines people preferred and why and maybe try a few of them so you can figure out if the various posters are relevant to your taste. For example, I would never have suggested that Scarecrow given your description of what you like. And you might want to start by looking at some Syrah, because it's done in a wider range of styles than most Cabs are. Good luck with this.
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dsGriswold
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Re: Help build a new collection

#3 Post by dsGriswold » September 11th, 2018, 8:59 am

Most of us do not need any help. We just buy way more than we drink and viola, we have a collection.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#4 Post by Sean Malloy » September 11th, 2018, 9:02 am

My advice is not to go out and buy 600 bottles of wine (50 cases) based on your current preferences. Those preferences are likely to change over time and you could be stuck with a bunch of stuff you don't like five years from now. Just buy things you like, taste other stuff, etc. And certainly don't buy large amounts of stuff that doesn't age well. Just build slowly!

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Re: Help build a new collection

#5 Post by Sean Malloy » September 11th, 2018, 9:04 am

Ah, but you also asked for suggestions. In the cab area, try out Gramercy Cellars from WA state. Delicious stuff that really is not overpowering and overdone. I'm not sure crunchy is the right word, because they are polished wines, but they have tons of cab flavor without being overdone.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#6 Post by Jorge Henriquez » September 11th, 2018, 9:07 am

Another point I'd make is to befriend your local retailers in your neighborhood (where will you be located in NYC?) and establishing a good rapport/relationship.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#7 Post by Poppy Davis » September 11th, 2018, 9:11 am

Adding on to the above advice.... At this point, it sounds like you prefer wines that do not age well. Most of these wines are also very, very difficult to sell on the secondary market. I would suggest just buying wine for your current needs for not more than 3 months at a time. Your tastes are very likely to change. Cellaring these types of wines will do you no favors.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#8 Post by c fu » September 11th, 2018, 9:16 am

Lots of great stores in NYC that could give you great suggestions in your requirements. You’re in the natural wine Mecca of the US!

Check out Chambers, discovery wine and I’m sure others can fill in the blank for more stores!
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Re: Help build a new collection

#9 Post by Anton D » September 11th, 2018, 10:06 am

Sean Malloy wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 9:02 am
My advice is not to go out and buy 600 bottles of wine (50 cases) based on your current preferences. Those preferences are likely to change over time and you could be stuck with a bunch of stuff you don't like five years from now. Just buy things you like, taste other stuff, etc. And certainly don't buy large amounts of stuff that doesn't age well. Just build slowly!
Well done.

I agree, roam about and taste and acquire wines that you encounter and enjoy and want to watch develop.

Also, since you specifically mention pinot and cab....watch this place and check out threads about visits to Washington, Oregon, and California and see if you can get a feel for how people describe things and how it relates to your palate. Then, you can hit tastings in New York, or toss together a tasting tour of our wine countries and make some discoveries!

Welcome to this crazy place, I think you will find lots of great info.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#10 Post by dsimmons » September 11th, 2018, 1:50 pm

Dinesh,

Of course the wines you ultimately decide to collect in quantity should be based on your preferences. I will offer some suggestions of wines you might wish to seek out too try. They represent wines that I have enjoyed in the price categories you have listed and of course they reflect my tastes.

US under $50:

Pinot - Walter Hansel (RRV), Dehlinger (RRV), Melville (Central Coast), Siduri (Various), Cristom (Oregon), Loring (Central Coast)

Cabernet - Neal (Napa), Keenan (Napa)

US 50-100:

Pinot - Calera (Central Coast)

Cabernet - Betz (WA), Seavey (Napa)

100-200:

Cab - Quilceda Creek (WA),Outpost (Napa), Togni (Napa), Spotswoode (Napa)


Also when you try these makers it is best to source bottles with some age if you can.
D o n

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Re: Help build a new collection

#11 Post by Thomas Keim » September 11th, 2018, 2:10 pm

"Stocking" the cellar is half the fun. Ask anyone here (especially the older guys), it's a weirdly depressing feeling when you suddenly don't have room for another bottle.

Take your time, and have fun. And you miss out on the education part if you fill your cellar up too fast -
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Re: Help build a new collection

#12 Post by Scott G r u n e r » September 11th, 2018, 2:16 pm

Welcome to the board Dinesh!
//Cynic

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Re: Help build a new collection

#13 Post by K John Joseph » September 11th, 2018, 2:34 pm

You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they're massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you'll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that "earthy" descriptor actually referred to...or at least you'll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You'll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife's car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you'll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won't know what people mean when they say "oh that's classic Pauillac" and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you'll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you'll want something light. You'll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You'll start talking about "this interesting tanat" and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn't too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you'll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You'll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don't have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You'll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.
J0hn-J-K4ne

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Re: Help build a new collection

#14 Post by Marcus Dean » September 11th, 2018, 2:38 pm

K John Joseph wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:34 pm
You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they're massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you'll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that "earthy" descriptor actually referred to...or at least you'll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You'll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife's car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you'll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won't know what people mean when they say "oh that's classic Pauillac" and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you'll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you'll want something light. You'll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You'll start talking about "this interesting tanat" and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn't too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you'll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You'll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don't have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You'll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.
You hear him now..... But you will probably get the vibe later

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Re: Help build a new collection

#15 Post by Anton D » September 11th, 2018, 2:46 pm

Marcus Dean wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:38 pm

You hear him now..... But you will probably get the vibe later
Hit the 3:50 mark in this song... [cheers.gif]

Anton Dotson

What is man, when you come to think upon him, but a minutely set, ingenious machine for turning, with infinite artfulness, the fine red wine of Shiraz into urine?

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Re: Help build a new collection

#16 Post by Bryan Carr » September 11th, 2018, 2:51 pm

K John Joseph wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:34 pm
You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they're massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you'll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that "earthy" descriptor actually referred to...or at least you'll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You'll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife's car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you'll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won't know what people mean when they say "oh that's classic Pauillac" and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you'll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you'll want something light. You'll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You'll start talking about "this interesting tanat" and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn't too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you'll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You'll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don't have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You'll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.
You might think this post is a joke, but it's not.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#17 Post by Bryan Carr » September 11th, 2018, 2:55 pm

Also, buying 50 cases in a very prescribed fashion off the bat sounds like a total drag, no offense. The journey is like 90% of the fun!
CT: the_lovenest

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Re: Help build a new collection

#18 Post by Marcus Dean » September 11th, 2018, 3:06 pm

Anton D wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:46 pm
Marcus Dean wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:38 pm

You hear him now..... But you will probably get the vibe later
Hit the 3:50 mark in this song... [cheers.gif]

Haha, actually I lifted it from "Bug powder dust" performed by Bomb The Bass, I cant work out how to put the track on this post

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Re: Help build a new collection

#19 Post by Mattstolz » September 11th, 2018, 3:21 pm

K John Joseph wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:34 pm
You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they're massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you'll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that "earthy" descriptor actually referred to...or at least you'll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You'll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife's car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you'll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won't know what people mean when they say "oh that's classic Pauillac" and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you'll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you'll want something light. You'll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You'll start talking about "this interesting tanat" and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn't too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you'll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You'll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don't have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You'll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.
champagne.gif well done sir. that was an entertaining read

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Re: Help build a new collection

#20 Post by J.Vizuete » September 11th, 2018, 4:30 pm

Mattstolz wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 3:21 pm
K John Joseph wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:34 pm
You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they're massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you'll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that "earthy" descriptor actually referred to...or at least you'll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You'll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife's car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you'll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won't know what people mean when they say "oh that's classic Pauillac" and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you'll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you'll want something light. You'll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You'll start talking about "this interesting tanat" and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn't too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you'll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You'll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don't have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You'll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.
champagne.gif well done sir. that was an entertaining read
+1 I’m in the old Pauillac phase now.. bring on the burgs
John
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Re: Help build a new collection

#21 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 11th, 2018, 4:38 pm

All

This might be the most fun board I have joined in a long long time :)

I should probably provide a few clarifications

1. When I said 50 cases, I didn’t specify the timing. I am probably looking to buy 5-10 cases for immediate consumption right away and another 5-10 for 5+ years of cellaring.

2. I also don’t think I specified my taste preferences quite accurately. What I really meant was that I am not a fan of over-ripe, over oaky wines. Eg there is very little of Barossa Shiraz that we have really loved. On the other hand a big fan of lot of Victoria (AU) and Tasmanian Pinot. Most of these labels wouldn’t be imported to the US (Ashton Hills, Tolpuddle, Mayer, By Farr).

3. Recently one of my buddies made me try multiple Napa cabs and really liked them - M Etain, Tor

4. Absolutely looking for suggestions on different styles. To begin with here is a short list I have created

Pinot < $50
1. Rhys Bearwhallow
2. Domaine Eden Pinot
3. Arcadian (not sure which label)
4. Soliste Narcisse
5. Freeman Sonoma

Cab < $50
1. Domaine Eden Estate
2. Raymey

$50-$100 Cab & Pinot
1. Foxen Block 8 Pinot
2. Mount Eden Estate Pinot
3. Ceritas Hacienda Pinot
4. Cristom Louise Pinot
5. CHAPPELLET CABERNET SAUVIGNON
6. Ridge Estate Cabernet
7. Caymus Cabernet
8. Vice Versa La Petit Cabernet

$100-$200 Domestic Cab
1. Lede Poetry Cabernet
2. Robert Mondavi To Kalon
3. Maybach Amoenus (barely)
4. TOR Beckstoffer
5. Scarecrow M Etain


Europeans (<$100)
1. "EMILIO MORO RIBERA DEL DUERO
2. Bodegas Aalto Ribera del Duero
3. La Rioja Alta 904 Gran Reserva Rioja
4. 2010 Beaucastel Châteauneuf-Du-Pape
5. Chateau Giscours Margaux 2009
6. Clos du Marquis 2009
7. Château-La-Gaffelière Saint Emilion 2009 (Barely)

It would be in particular good to get some recommendations for domestic Cabernets under $50 and Bordeaux under $100. Bordeaux in particular I feel I understand very little of and have a prejudice that it is way overpriced. However recently tried a tasting of various labels offered by Leoville Las Case and enjoyed it immensely.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#22 Post by Yao C » September 11th, 2018, 4:50 pm

Wrt Bordeaux I would suggest trying at least a couple of older ones from the '80s and '90s. K&L is good at sourcing affordable yet tasty examples from less well known producers

Also this old post is very instructive:
Berry Crawford wrote:
November 24th, 2009, 10:58 am
A true wine geek goes through the following spiritual stages:

Stage 1 "Genesis" - Have an epiphany wine that makes you want to get more serious about wine
Stage 2 "Confusion" - Realize that there are so many bewildering choices that its difficult to decide what to buy
Stage 3 "Discipleship" - Start following the ratings of a respected wine critic as a guide to what to buy
Stage 4 "Cognitive Dissonance" - Do your best to tell yourself that you are actually enjoying all the highly rated wines you are drinking
Stage 5 "Awakening" - Realize that taste in wine is subjective and you need to determine for yourself what you like
Stage 6 "Rage" - What the f*ck am I going to do with all this wine I bought that i don't actually like?
Stage 7 "Dinner Parties" - Unload the wine on friends at non-wine-geek dinner parties. They will likely be impressed as the wines are highly rated.
Stage 8 "The Quest" - Taste, taste and taste some more to see what regions, producers and vintages you like
Stage 9 "Enlightenment" - OMFG! Burgundy!
Stage 10 "Dark Night of the Soul" - OMFG these things are expensive!
Stage 11 "Inner Peace" - German Riesling! And cheap too!
C h 0 o n 6

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Re: Help build a new collection

#23 Post by Alan Eden » September 11th, 2018, 5:11 pm

No advice on wine types, however i strongly suggest whatever size your planning build it at least twice that size. Does not matter which wines you get into your cellar will need to be bigger than you plan initally
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Re: Help build a new collection

#24 Post by BLittle » September 11th, 2018, 5:12 pm

Marcus Dean wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:38 pm

You hear him now..... But you will probably get the vibe later
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Re: Help build a new collection

#25 Post by Nathan Smyth » September 11th, 2018, 8:53 pm

Before you do anything else in the world of wine, treat yourself to a bottle of this:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/agos ... nello/2013

If that wine doesn't turn on the lightbulb in your head, then you can go back to wasting your money on all of the crap that you're talking about wasting it on.

PS: For your $100 bottles of USA Pinot, look at the oldest vintages of this:

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/arcadian+pinot/

At least then you won't be wasting your money.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#26 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 12th, 2018, 3:36 am

Nathan Smyth wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 8:53 pm

If that wine doesn't turn on the lightbulb in your head, then you can go back to wasting your money on all of the crap that you're talking about wasting it on.

Lol. Given your passion, I will try your recommendation for sure :)

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Re: Help build a new collection

#27 Post by Howard Cooper » September 12th, 2018, 4:57 am

I would not fill up a cellar too fast. New York retailers have great wines from all over the world. Go to tastings at stores like Chambers Street and Crush when they taste wines and learn what you like. Go to big tastings that will be in NYC in the next few months like the Wine Spectator Experience http://www.nywineexperience.com/ , the Paulee de New York http://www.lapaulee.com/ , the Rieslingfeier https://rieslingfeier.com/ , the Union of Grand Crus of Bordeaux http://www.ugcb.net/en/home and the Fete du Champagne http://www.lafeteduchampagne.com/ Figure out what you like.

A few American wineries to look out for in your journey - Ridge (don't just focus on Cabernet - try Geyserville or Lytton Springs and their Chardonnay), Chateau Montelena and Stony Hill. But, you will also find great wines from Italy (for example Produttori), from Burgundy (start with Bourgogne Rouge from Hudelot-Noellat. Bourgogne Blanc from Bernard Moreau and virtually anything from Domaine Dublere to stay in budget), Bordeaux, Alsace (Trimbach), Germany (Zilliken, JJ Prum, Selbach, for example).

Have fun in the process. Buying is probably more addictive for more people on this board than is drinking. GO SLOW. Or you will end up with a lot of wine that you outgrow.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#28 Post by Sherri S h a p i r o » September 12th, 2018, 5:50 am

Dinesh - Since you are interested in buying multiple cases of ageworthy wine that you have never really tasted before, I would suggest you buy a few older bottles of the very same wines you are interested in (either from a retailer or at auction or even here on commerce corner) and see whether you like them. You have the benefit of learning from mistakes many of us have made, buying and cellaring wine that we haven't tasted or known how it would taste with years of age - DON'T DO IT! Not only do tastes change, but my point is that before you invest a lot of money in wine for future consumption, make sure you know that you like it.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#29 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 12th, 2018, 1:07 pm

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

I am going to start with 5-10 cases to ensure I have sufficient to drink for the next 3-6 months

Howard Cooper, thank you for those recommendations. Love wine shows.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#30 Post by Steve Bird » September 12th, 2018, 1:52 pm

Also check out benchmarkwine.com to obtain some older wines and see if you even like older wines. I also like the idea of trying some 'high quality' producers of wine varietals with which you may be unfamiliar. If you don't like what is generally considered well-aged or of high quality, then you probably won't like lesser quality (IMO).

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Re: Help build a new collection

#31 Post by Wes Barton » September 12th, 2018, 9:06 pm

Also, check out the Offline Planner page here. Getting together for wine dinners with fellow Berserkers is a fun way to share wines and be introduced to wines.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#32 Post by Scott Wi3gand » September 12th, 2018, 10:05 pm

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 4:38 pm

Pinot < $50
1. Rhys Bearwhallow
2. Domaine Eden Pinot
3. Arcadian (not sure which label)
4. Soliste Narcisse
5. Freeman Sonoma
Don’t sleep on the Oregon scene for Pinot (and Chardonnay). There are a good deal of OR threads on this board (many with titles including Willamette Valley) and the average price for top level Pinot is lower than California and I’ve found OR Pinot much more to my liking. Hell, before i started drinking Oregon wines, I didn’t even realize I liked Chardonnay.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#33 Post by Mark Maddox » September 13th, 2018, 12:32 am

Second on Oregon Pinot, start and finish there. Also pick up some Bedrock Zins.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#34 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 13th, 2018, 5:12 am

Thank you guys so much. We have been feeling quite overwhelmed at the idea of moving from Sydney to NYC. You have all given me a reason to cheer up.

Thank you.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#35 Post by Scott Brunson » September 13th, 2018, 5:31 am

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 5:12 am
Thank you guys so much. We have been feeling quite overwhelmed at the idea of moving from Sydney to NYC. You have all given me a reason to cheer up.

Thank you.
Sign up for Chambers St emails.
That will cheer you up even more! [cheers.gif]
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Re: Help build a new collection

#36 Post by Jay Miller » September 13th, 2018, 8:33 am

re wine stores in NYC - Chambers, Crush and Flatiron are my favorites though there are a lot of others that can also be worth a visit.

If you're looking for wine storage there are threads on that as well. Many choices ranging from very convenient and ridiculously expensive to the less convenient and less expensive.

If you're here soon La Fete du Champagne is coming up in November. The grand tasting is a great way to decide what Champagne you'd like to buy.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#37 Post by JonF » September 13th, 2018, 8:46 am

BLittle wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 5:12 pm
Marcus Dean wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:38 pm

You hear him now..... But you will probably get the vibe later
Great reference! That song was on the Kruder and Dorfmeister DJ Kicks and Rebirth of Cool 3.
Now do Basehead [thumbs-up.gif]
Blast from the past! That reminds me, time to queue up Earth Vol 1 from LTJ Bukem. Sad that Poets of Thought never gained enough traction to cut a solo.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#38 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 13th, 2018, 4:00 pm

Jay Miller, thanks a lot.

Yes have read a few threads on storage and based on that shortlisted Manhattan Wine company and Domaine. Both Marc and Michael have been super responsive.

MWC has a waiting list at the moment. So might go with Domaine.

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Re: Help build a new collection

#39 Post by Kirk.Grant » September 13th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 5:12 am
All, we will soon be moving to NYC. I want to build a cellar (if you want to call it that) centered around US, and some European, wines. 40% Pinot, 30% Cab and rest everything else.

For the last 4 years I have mostly focused on Aussie Pinots and Chardonnays. Small producers (mostly 1000 to 10000 cases an year), slightly eccentric, don’t care about year-on-year variation, natural but not defective, reds that look almost like rose etc etc. That’s not to say I don’t like big Cabernets. However not into rich Barossa style Shiraz.

Looking to start with about 50 cases with 2/3rd being under $50 a bottle and rest being above $50. ($50-$100 and $100-$200).

For Cabs I prefer slightly fresh/crunchy Cabs over really dark/oaky cabs. I recently tried Scarecrow M Etain, which was delicious.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
I would go and look through NYC at the stores in the area. Find the store that has the most of the wines you want and spend 50% of your cash there...immediately establish yourself as a loyal customer and you'll be surprised what you can turn up. This should be a fun adventure.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#40 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 13th, 2018, 4:34 pm

When I was starting, I wish someone had told me to buy nothing but Tignanello. So I'm telling you:

BUY NOTHING BUT TIGNANELLO
Cheers,
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Re: Help build a new collection

#41 Post by K_F_o_l_e_y » September 13th, 2018, 4:42 pm

K John Joseph wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 2:34 pm
You should start out by buying 250 bottles of Napa cabs, increasing in price and cult status in an exponential curve. You are allowed to spend an additional 50 bottles on monster zins, Napa chardonnay, domestic dessert wines, and an occasional domestic syrah or grenache, so long as they're massive.

After consuming 100 of those, you'll likely decide that maybe you do want to dabble in pinot noir, at which point you should seek out massive domestic pinot noir from the Russian River area, or possibly even warmer pinot climes.

At some time during that adventure, you will be introduced to Super Tuscans, which you will likely think are awesome and you might finally figure out what that "earthy" descriptor actually referred to...or at least you'll think you will. After stocking up only on big names and finding out that Tignanello really is overrated, you might be persuaded by that one buddy of yours to attend a tasting of bordeaux from 2009 and 2010.

You'll go in thinking one thing and leave thinking that perhaps you should sell your wife's car and just buy a bunch of cases of Pavie, Lascombes, and Le Dome. Eventually you'll be turned on to more classically styled bordeaux, which will spark wonderful debates about the smell of pencil lead, graphite, sharpened pencil, cedar, and cigar box. You probably won't know what people mean when they say "oh that's classic Pauillac" and will learn in blind tastings that neither do they. But you'll like it.

All of a sudden some of those Grenaches and even pinots will seem too sweet and heavy, and you'll want something light. You'll begin to dabble in Oregon pinot and maybe even get seduced into Burgundy, at which time your 600 bottle cellar with $50 bottles will shrink to a 126 bottle cellar with wines at prices you hide from your significant other. You may even go to far down the rabbit hole and convince yourself that $350 village wine is totally worth it, at which point your wine journey has almost hit rock bottom.

You may come to, reject your Burgundy habit like the all-consuming opioid addiction that it is and seek out esoteric and significantly cheaper wines to sate your lust for wine experiences. You'll start talking about "this interesting tanat" and note green beans on that savennieres. You may try to convince yourself that aligote is as good or better than meursault, and chill with your one pal that drinks wine like you do over a nice Gru-V or a sparburgunder that you try to convince yourself isn't too acidic and lean.

Eventually, you'll realize that you like a nice balance of things, and that all wines have their place. You'll find your consumption relatively consistent year in and year out, and begin buying to address those relative constants without caring that you don't have 2 cases of riesling, any suaternes, or even a single malbec. You'll have what you like, know what you like, and have lived a wonderful journey that is all your own.
That is the second most funny thing I've evah read on this board.
Cheers,
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Re: Help build a new collection

#42 Post by Jason T » September 13th, 2018, 6:46 pm

It was pretty epic. I went from chuckle to all-in chortle over the Pauillac comment. Though no mention of Riesling?!?!?!
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Re: Help build a new collection

#43 Post by Howard Cooper » September 13th, 2018, 6:52 pm

Jason T wrote:
September 13th, 2018, 6:46 pm
Though no mention of Riesling?!?!?!
Read post 27
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Re: Help build a new collection

#44 Post by Howard Cooper » September 13th, 2018, 6:57 pm

For Bordeaux, there is a great thread on traditional vs. modern Bordeaux. Look at the top of the board on hall of fame threads for a link. There also is a great thread linked there on off the beaten path Burgundy.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#45 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 14th, 2018, 6:28 pm

Thank you everyone.
1. Have signed up for Mailing lists ya Crush, Flatiron wines and chamber st
2. Planning to attend Rieslingfeier, Reboule Du Rhône, La Paulee and Union of Grand Crus Bordeaux tasting events
3. Really like the idea of offline meet-ups that are posted on Wine Berserker
4. Have almost finalized the storage at Domaine. Michael Mahle has been great (as has been Marc at MWC).

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Re: Help build a new collection

#46 Post by jon leifer » September 14th, 2018, 7:54 pm

Welcome aboard, Dinesh, hope you come to enjoy the food and wine scene in NYC and that your cellar will become everything you want it to be..Lot of good points made in this thread, wish i had this resource available to me when I started my wine journey roughly 60 years ago..Wd like to make one suggestion, while pursuing your cellar treasures, please don't overlook buying some wines for everyday drinking and enjoyment
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Re: Help build a new collection

#47 Post by D. Mowe » September 14th, 2018, 8:50 pm

Sean Malloy wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 9:02 am
My advice is not to go out and buy 600 bottles of wine (50 cases) based on your current preferences. Those preferences are likely to change over time and you could be stuck with a bunch of stuff you don't like five years from now. Just buy things you like, taste other stuff, etc. And certainly don't buy large amounts of stuff that doesn't age well. Just build slowly!
This advice is spot on!! Tastes change. I have about 1200 or so bottles in my cellar of which 3-400 I don’t really care to drink anymore. Build slowly...
Dustin
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Re: Help build a new collection

#48 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 15th, 2018, 5:16 pm

Thank you all.

Traditional vs modern Bordeaux, combined with threads on 2015 & 2016 Bordeaux we’re very helpful.

Could you please point me to any thread on burgundies under $100?

Thanks a ton

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Re: Help build a new collection

#49 Post by Tom Reddick » September 15th, 2018, 9:25 pm

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
September 11th, 2018, 4:38 pm
2. I also don’t think I specified my taste preferences quite accurately. What I really meant was that I am not a fan of over-ripe, over oaky wines. Eg there is very little of Barossa Shiraz that we have really loved. On the other hand a big fan of lot of Victoria (AU) and Tasmanian Pinot. Most of these labels wouldn’t be imported to the US (Ashton Hills, Tolpuddle, Mayer, By Farr).
Just one thought if I may. Given that your experience is largely limited to one particular region, your definition of certain terms may widely vary with those others- even beyond personal differences. You state in the above quote that you are not a fan of over-ripe, over oaky wines, but then 2 points later in your list I see a number of wines and a couple of specific vintages which I and many others would personally consider over-ripe or overly oaked. As you expand your experience with those regions, I expect you will find these wines to be on the riper and oakier side. You may still like them as compared to Australian wines- but you may well find you do not once you have a sense of the broader spectrum of what is out there.

Going to events in NYC will be a good thing, but keep in mind too that you can start right now on an even smaller scale and at no charge. In fact, within Manhattan alone I think it is safe to say that you could taste at least 10 wines a week at no charge courtesy of the fact many top retailers offer regular tastings of a handful of wines free to the public. And, on occasion, for a fee you can attend something really special. On October 24th, for example, Chambers Street is hosting a private tasting of 45+ wines from Chianti with Jancis Robinson in attendance. The fee includes some nice perks too- a tasting glass and a year's subscription to her publication. That should be an incredible evening.

Give yourself 3 months, and attend as many of such tastings as you can- and even if you only make 1 a week- after 3 months you should have tasting notes for at least 50-60 wines (well over 100 if you can manage 2 tastings a week.) Side bonus- if you come across something you really like, then you can usually buy it right then and there in the store. And it is not unheard of for wines included in the tasting to be at a slight discount on the date of the tasting to encourage sales.

As for specifics- I noted on your list that you have Robert Mondavi To Kalon in the fancy section, and I presume you mean the To Kalon Reserve. The 2015 was just released, and I had the fortune to get my hands on a bottle earlier this year which I placed in a tasting of various higher end CA wines. The 2015 is absolutely magnificent, and one of the most endearing Cabernets I have had in quite some time. If you are itching to do a little buying early on (we all were at that stage- and still are at all times to some extent), that is the wine I would go buy now. It is not exactly a small production wine, but given how good it is this year (with critical reviews to match), it would be wise to get what you want fairly early while it is still readily available.
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Re: Help build a new collection

#50 Post by Nathan Smyth » September 16th, 2018, 9:56 am

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
September 15th, 2018, 5:16 pm
Could you please point me to any thread on burgundies under $100?
Don't waste your time.

It's a fool's errand [and has been for about a decade now].

That's why I linked you to the 2013 Agostino Pieri Brunello - it's the first $50 fine wine which scratched the itch in forever.

Mediocre red burgundy will cost you $300 to $500 now, and the very worst of the best stuff starts at about $1200.

BTW, I don't think that you can even get passable WHITE burgundy for less than $100 anymore.

At least not around here.

If you want to drink well for $100, then get yourself a Zardetto Prosecco for openers, and a 2013 Pieri Brunello for your main dish, and a Paolo Saracco Moscato d'Asti for dessert, and you'll still have just a little change in your pocket at the end of the day.

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