Gigondas

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S. Rash
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Gigondas

#1 Post by S. Rash »

Gigondas in my favorite French AOC. I believe it is highly underrated and is producing some of the best wines in the southern Rhone right now. I believe this will be the CdP of the future with its higher elevation able to withstand climate change a little bit better than those on the valley floor. Not much is mentioned about it here on WB with most attention going to CdP. What does everyone think? My favorites from this region are Domaine Brusset, Pierre Amadieu, Domaine Saint Damien, and Domaine du Cayron. What are some of your favorites that you think I should try?
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Re: Gigondas

#2 Post by mikepf1 »

Shhh.... once the word is out the prices will ramp to reflect the general quality of the region. I do agree and really like the wines coming out of Gigondas as well as the available qpr. You've hit most of the top producers in your list but I'd point to Domaine des Bosquets as well.
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Re: Gigondas

#3 Post by Gordon Fitz »

Chateau de Saint Cosme and Domaine Santa Duc are also favorites of mine.

I love the wines for what they are and their style. I personally love the CdPs with Mourvèdre and that grape just doesn’t, at least reliably, get ripe at that altitude. I can’t/won’t project what might or might not happen in the region with climate change, but in my lifetime I don’t see this changing. I don’t see the Gigondas blends beating out the CdP GSM blends anytime soon.

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Re: Gigondas

#4 Post by Jonathan Loesberg »

Since Gigondas now costs between $30 and $40 in the US for normal cuvees, I hardly think the word isn't out. The ones I like, I like very much. The region is afflicted with heavy oak and overripe wines, though. I agree about Cayron and Saint Damien (despite its being a Cambie wine). Less so about Brusset. I sometimes like Amadieu, sometimes not. My own other go tos, along with the two I mentioned above, are Raspail Ay, Gour de Chaulé, Domaine La Garrigue (not available in the US, though), Joncuas and d'Ourea (which I've not seen in the US, but does or did have a US importer).

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Re: Gigondas

#5 Post by Chris Seiber »

S. Rash wrote: October 26th, 2021, 9:31 am Not much is mentioned about it here on WB with most attention going to CdP.
I'm not sure CdP gets much discussion on this board, frankly, and much of the discussion it does get is negative. All the love is for the Northern Rhone, mostly Cornas.

Oddly, we don't talk about Hermitage much either, or at least I don't notice it.
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Re: Gigondas

#6 Post by Craig G »

Chris Seiber wrote: October 26th, 2021, 11:03 am I'm not sure CdP gets much discussion on this board, frankly, and much of the discussion it does get is negative. All the love is for the Northern Rhone, mostly Cornas.
There’s been a bunch of buzz about Rayas and particularly the 2008.
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Re: Gigondas

#7 Post by Arv R »

It's hard to find a bad Gigondas by the time it makes it to the US West Coast. Lots of filters keeping the lower rung away. Don't be scared of negociant ones either - Guigal and PJA's are quite likable.

I pass on Tardieu Laurents though.
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Re: Gigondas

#8 Post by Abbie S. »

Jonathan Loesberg wrote: October 26th, 2021, 10:53 am Since Gigondas now costs between $30 and $40 in the US for normal cuvees, I hardly think the word isn't out. The ones I like, I like very much. The region is afflicted with heavy oak and overripe wines, though. I agree about Cayron and Saint Damien (despite its being a Cambie wine). Less so about Brusset. I sometimes like Amadieu, sometimes not. My own other go tos, along with the two I mentioned above, are Raspail Ay, Gour de Chaulé, Domaine La Garrigue (not available in the US, though), Joncuas and d'Ourea (which I've not seen in the US, but does or did have a US importer).
I have a few bottles of 2016 Gour de Chaulé. Any drinking/aging recommendations?
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Re: Gigondas

#9 Post by Loren Sonkin »

People have been saying this for a while and the prices do keep creeping up especially for the better houses. Saint Come and Santa Duc mentioned above are prime examples, but I agree lots of nice values and 8/10 vintages a decade are very good or better.

I tend to drink in year 5 thru 15, but sometimes earlier and some very few a bit later.
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Re: Gigondas

#10 Post by S. Rash »

Abbie S. wrote: October 26th, 2021, 11:51 am
Jonathan Loesberg wrote: October 26th, 2021, 10:53 am Since Gigondas now costs between $30 and $40 in the US for normal cuvees, I hardly think the word isn't out. The ones I like, I like very much. The region is afflicted with heavy oak and overripe wines, though. I agree about Cayron and Saint Damien (despite its being a Cambie wine). Less so about Brusset. I sometimes like Amadieu, sometimes not. My own other go tos, along with the two I mentioned above, are Raspail Ay, Gour de Chaulé, Domaine La Garrigue (not available in the US, though), Joncuas and d'Ourea (which I've not seen in the US, but does or did have a US importer).
I have a few bottles of 2016 Gour de Chaulé. Any drinking/aging recommendations?
I have really been enjoying the '10s right now. Highly ranked vintages are 09, 10, 15, and 16, but don't shy away from lesser regarded vintages. You can find some great wines from quality domaines. I haven't had any of the newer vintages yet. Definitely the prime drinking window is 5-10+ years. Though I do have a '97 Domaine du Cayron I plan to open on my wedding anniversary (anniversary vintage) this year.
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Re: Gigondas

#11 Post by Jonathan Loesberg »

I consider Gour de Chaulé what I would call a moderate ager. It is in its prime at 8-12 usually. By age 15, it can start to seem fatigued. If one had a cold cellar, those estimates might change. In that, it is pretty typical, I think of Gigondas, but there are exceptions. Raspail-Ay goes much longer, I think. And Domaine La Garrigue (their Vacqueyras as well) goes to 20 without much heavy breathing.

By the way, I disagree with Arv that the filter of importation means the ones that get here are all good. If one dislikes oaked and overriped wines, they are, nevertheless, well-represented in the American market.
Last edited by Jonathan Loesberg on October 26th, 2021, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gigondas

#12 Post by D@ve D y r 0 f f »

Gordon Fitz wrote: October 26th, 2021, 10:39 am Chateau de Saint Cosme and Domaine Santa Duc are also favorites of mine.

I love the wines for what they are and their style. I personally love the CdPs with Mourvèdre and that grape just doesn’t, at least reliably, get ripe at that altitude. I can’t/won’t project what might or might not happen in the region with climate change, but in my lifetime I don’t see this changing. I don’t see the Gigondas blends beating out the CdP GSM blends anytime soon.
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Re: Gigondas

#13 Post by Arv R »

Jonathan Loesberg wrote: October 26th, 2021, 12:59 pm I consider Gour de Chaulé what I would call a moderate ager. It is in its prime at 8-12 usually. By age 15, it can start to seem fatigued. If one had a cold cellar, those estimates might change. In that, it is pretty typical, I think of Gigondas, but there are exceptions. Raspail-Ay goes much longer, I think. And Domaine La Garrigue (their Vacqueyras as well) goes to 20 without much heavy breathing.

By the way, I disagree with Arv that the filter of importation means the ones that get here are all good. If one dislikes oaked and overriped wines, they are, nevertheless, well-represented in the American market.
Ok more accurately, it would be pretty rare for me to be unhappy with a Gigondas that I find stateside. Maybe T-L is the only one I've learned to avoid, and that is generally their whole lineup, so not really a Gigondas specific issue.

Rather surprisingly half bottles of 2016 Raspail-Ay have shown up at my LWS, for $14.50, a pretty fair price for that format, and a good vintage/producer combo.
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Re: Gigondas

#14 Post by David_K »

People have been saying this since I started drinking wine. The wines are okay (if you like the style), but they're not CdP and never will be. In fact, given that CdP prices have been flat for a while, I think the value proposition for Gigondas is worse than ever.
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Re: Gigondas

#15 Post by JulianEldridge »

I love Gigondas, and my 2 fave producers (Dom St Damien and Dom des Bosquets) have already been mentioned. If you have not tried Domaine les Pallieres, I'd put them on your list. Also, the Famille Perrin (of Beaucastel fame) makes 2 cuvees.
Last edited by JulianEldridge on October 26th, 2021, 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gigondas

#16 Post by Michael Martin »

Love the region. Still under the radar. Many good producers.
For those with access to Costco, the Kirkland Gigondas for $14.99 is a screaming deal.

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Re: Gigondas

#17 Post by Vincent Fritzsche »

A small producer that’s long been available in Oregon is Edmond Burle. Their Cotes du Rhône, Vacqueyras and Gigondas are terrific and provide great value. There was a generational change some years back and the wines seem a little more modern but still have all the briary tannin and rusticity that I love in these appellations. Admittedly I have not tried the most recent models but I’d seek them out.

Edit - maybe it’s obvious but if you want to try them, seek out local retailers online and put together an order. Oregon has a surprisingly great selection of direct imports that I don’t find elsewhere. If I didn’t live here I’d be ordering from afar.
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Re: Gigondas

#18 Post by Mark Henderson »

Love the wines and love the area, having visited three times. A visit to the Gigondas Cave is a great opportunity to taste across the producers. I think that the majority of the wines I regard highly have been mentioned except for Bouissiere. I cannot buy Raspail-Ay here in NZ, nor Joncuas or St Cosme either though the last used to be available for many years until the importer retired.

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Re: Gigondas

#19 Post by joejolesch »

WTSO seems to have Gigondas on offer fairly regularly. The ‘17 Domaine du Grand Montmirail Gigondas Le Coteau de Mon Reve is great for $23 and they have the ‘19 available now.
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Re: Gigondas

#20 Post by I. van de Laar »

Couldn't agree more with al names mentioned above. Would like to add Le Clos des Cazaux, property in Vacqueyras, produce a nice Gigondas as well. Still a bit under the radar compared to Brusset, Damien and Duc. And don't miss out on their Vacq, even better value.
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Re: Gigondas

#21 Post by Otto Forsberg »

David_K wrote: October 26th, 2021, 3:43 pm The wines are okay (if you like the style), but they're not CdP and never will be.
Thank heavens for that. That's why they're still drinkable.
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Re: Gigondas

#22 Post by Jonathan Loesberg »

Otto Forsberg wrote: October 27th, 2021, 12:43 pm
David_K wrote: October 26th, 2021, 3:43 pm The wines are okay (if you like the style), but they're not CdP and never will be.
Thank heavens for that. That's why they're still drinkable.
I certainly understand not liking Southern Rhone wines. And I can see preferring CdP to Gigondas as a generality about the style of the appelation or indeed Gigondas to CdP on the same basis. But if one doesn't like CdP on account of overripeness and alcohol, I don't see how Gigondas improves matters. And, indeed, I find oak and confiture like ripeness to infect more Gigondas than CdP, though there is plenty to go around in both, just as there are always traditional domaines to seek out in both.

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Re: Gigondas

#23 Post by Matthew Brown »

Jonathan Loesberg wrote: October 26th, 2021, 10:53 am Domaine La Garrigue (not available in the US, though)
Good producer, and definitely available in the US, just may not have much national coverage.
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Re: Gigondas

#24 Post by Steve Costigan »

I love the Southern Rhone. I like Gigondas a lot. And wished I liked it more. Some have been terrific. However, all things being equal (e.g., comparable levels of refinement/extraction/ripeness), I find CdP so much more interesting than Gigondas. I’m talking about complexity and secondary chacteristics. Still worth buying and following but not nearly as much as CdP for me. Cheers.
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Re: Gigondas

#25 Post by Jonathan Loesberg »

Matthew Brown wrote: October 27th, 2021, 1:01 pm
Jonathan Loesberg wrote: October 26th, 2021, 10:53 am Domaine La Garrigue (not available in the US, though)
Good producer, and definitely available in the US, just may not have much national coverage.
The Vacqueyras and the CdR is here, not the Gigondas, unless something has changed in the last year or two.

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Re: Gigondas

#26 Post by Matthew Brown »

Jonathan Loesberg wrote: October 27th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Matthew Brown wrote: October 27th, 2021, 1:01 pm
Jonathan Loesberg wrote: October 26th, 2021, 10:53 am Domaine La Garrigue (not available in the US, though)
Good producer, and definitely available in the US, just may not have much national coverage.
The Vacqueyras and the CdR is here, not the Gigondas, unless something has changed in the last year or two.
Pretty sure the NOVA/DC distributor offered the Gigondas recently, but I may be conflating it with another in their book.
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Re: Gigondas

#27 Post by Jonathan Loesberg »

Eric Solomon, their importer, lists their three cuvees of Vacqueyras and their CdR, but not their Gigondas. If you have seen their Gigondas in the DC NOVA area, please tell me where.

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Re: Gigondas

#28 Post by Joseph Grassa »

From my experience, Gigondas are more consistent than CdP... Many CdP are too rich and sweet for me, but when they are more subtle and nuanced, I have preferred them over any Gigondas I have had.

Gigondas more masculine? and CdP more feminine, but some seem to have gotten too much botox?

I agree on Domaine du Grand Montmirail as well. Keep an eye on WTSO and you can find them somewhat often for very good qpr.

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Re: Gigondas

#29 Post by Joseph Grassa »

2018 Domaine du Grand Montmirail Vieilles Vignes on wtso right now!

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Re: Gigondas

#30 Post by Mitch P »

Joseph Grassa wrote: October 29th, 2021, 12:01 pm 2018 Domaine du Grand Montmirail Vieilles Vignes on wtso right now!
^^The 2016 is fantastic
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Re: Gigondas

#31 Post by jnbrown »

Another Gigondas fan here.
Started out trying CDP and found out for myself that Gigondas was the better region for me.
Local shop here was selling Palon for $19. Wonderful, It compares with wines in the mid $30 range.
Hope they carry it in the future but could just be a one off.
Bought all I could justify and it did sell out quickly.
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