The Bourbon Thread

[Kris Patten]

If you could only pick 1 between the Pappy's 15/20 and BTAC offerings, what would your top 3 choices be?

Keeping in mind this would be to drink, not resale.

Eagle Rare 17
Sazerac 18 year Rye
George T. Stagg

[Kris Patten]

If you could only pick 1 between the Pappy's 15/20 and BTAC offerings, what would your top 3 choices be?

Keeping in mind this would be to drink, not resale.

I’ve never had Eagle Rare 17 and desperately want to so that would be my pick. Come to think of it I’ve not tried Wm Larue Weller yet. But for what I have tried, Pappy 15. I prefer it to the 20 because it is spicier/less smooth and it’s more interesting to me. Both are excellent and not worth secondary prices. Get one at a bar for $50 a shot and spend the money on Stagg Jr or Weller OWA.

So Pappy 15
Pappy 20
GTS

Eagle Rare 17 is the best 80 proof Whiskey in the world. Didn't get to try 2019 yet at a little higher proof.

[Mich@el Ch@ng]

One thing I do miss about not living in LA is the great whisky bars. Easy to try almost anything.

[Michael Ferris]

Pappy 20, Pappy 15, WLW, GTS for me

WLW, 20, 15, GTS for me. They’re all outstanding though.

[Andrew K.]

Anyone had the Pappy 23? Is that a white whale?

[Mich@el Ch@ng]

Anyone had the Pappy 23? Is that a white whale?

It’s oaky... I have some of the 23 from stitzel weller juice and it’s great but you have to really like oak.

[Otto Dobre]

Anyone had the Pappy 23? Is that a white whale?

It’s oaky... I have some of the 23 from stitzel weller juice and it’s great but you have to really like oak.

Agreed, and I feel the same about the 20 year old. But the 12 and 15 are fantastic, at least to my palate. But I cannot afford them now.

[Kelly Walker]

Found a rye that I really love. Kentucky Owl 10 year Small Batch. The one I had was batch 03 bottled 11/18. 57%. Not oaky. Very pure and intense on the palate. Long and lingering. Have to find some for home. Great paired with a Monty White Rothschild.

[James Lyon]

Anyone had the Pappy 23? Is that a white whale?

Andrew, do you understand the allure of Pappy?

[Andrew Kotowski]

Anyone had the Pappy 23? Is that a white whale?

It’s oaky... I have some of the 23 from stitzel weller juice and it’s great but you have to really like oak.

This. I was incredibly surprised with the difference between 20 (I've had 10+ bottles) and the one 23 I had. Massive oak on the 23.

[Andrew K.]

Anyone had the Pappy 23? Is that a white whale?

Andrew, do you understand the allure of Pappy?

Not really?

[Craig G]

Then maybe just buy some Weller.

[bradkaplan]

Re Pappy 23 - I've had it probably four times (at bars, by the pour), and it has ranged from meh/over-oaky to sublime. The sublime one was about 10 years ago now, and certainly different stock than more recent releases. YMMV. The rye remains my favorite Van Winkle by far, but similar story in that it will not be what it used to be.

[Mich@el Ch@ng]

With the 23, I wonder if how long the bottle has been open makes a difference. With heavily aged spirits sometimes it helps for it to be open for awhile.

[James Lyon]

Anyone had the Pappy 23? Is that a white whale?

Andrew, do you understand the allure of Pappy?

Not really?

OK. I would suggest some research on the Pappy Van Winkle brand and come back with any questions at that point. Brad's post above is very informative in a subtle way.

[Adam Noble]

The thing about Pappy is that even though it’s not S-W anymore, it’s still really great whiskey and at the release price I’d buy it. At secondary I wouldn’t. But it’s not that hard to find Weller 107 at retail or near it and it’s as good a 7 year wheater on the market.

[Chris.Martin]

Any thoughts on Old Carter? My local store has a couple bottles for $199/each (seems reasonable) and I wanted to know if it's worth it.

[Andrew Kotowski]

The thing about Pappy is that even though it’s not S-W anymore, it’s still really great whiskey and at the release price I’d buy it. At secondary I wouldn’t. But it’s not that hard to find Weller 107 at retail or near it and it’s as good a 7 year wheater on the market.

Has gotten harder lately, or so it seems. Am down to two bottles :O

[Adam Noble]

I can probably get it for $80 or less without looking too hard.

[Andrew K.]

OK. I would suggest some research on the Pappy Van Winkle brand and come back with any questions at that point. Brad's post above is very informative in a subtle way.

thanks for the tip. sounds like the real allure is the history when Pappy was running it and it's all downhill from '92.

thankfully I don't really have anything to compare today's offerings to. I'm just looking for a good drink.

[Kris Patten]

OK. I would suggest some research on the Pappy Van Winkle brand and come back with any questions at that point. Brad's post above is very informative in a subtle way.

thanks for the tip. sounds like the real allure is the history when Pappy was running it and it's all downhill from '92.

thankfully I don't really have anything to compare today's offerings to. I'm just looking for a good drink.

The two I'd recommend are 15 year and 13 year Rye. Rye is really a unicorn. 20 and 23 are more wood spice than fruit, sheerly due to age and time in barrel. 12 year is good, but I think Weller 12 offers better value.

[Andrew Kotowski]

Tried a bottle of Smooth Ambler Old Scout 99. Not a fan. Some oak on it, but more like "soaked in oak chips" oak than barreled for any considerable amount of time. Hot, too. Have heard good things about Smooth Ambler, but I'm guessing it's for other labels, rather than this one. Bright side is I think it will go well with Vernors.

[TGigante]

Happened upon the better part of a case of Stagg Jr batch #14 130.2 at a Shop Rite Liquors in NJ for $59.99/btl while picking up a gyro at the Greek place next door.

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Nice score. You need to find an auction site, stat

What is the secondary market price?

[James Lyon]

Tried a bottle of Smooth Ambler Old Scout 99. Not a fan. Some oak on it, but more like "soaked in oak chips" oak than barreled for any considerable amount of time. Hot, too. Have heard good things about Smooth Ambler, but I'm guessing it's for other labels, rather than this one. Bright side is I think it will go well with Vernors.

I'm not sure about your specific bottle, but the source of the distillate should be listed on the side or back label, IN or TN. I'm uncertain if Smooth Ambler has any of their own WV distillate in the Old Scout 99 these days. Unfortunately, their own distillate hasn't generated many positive reviews, Big Level for example. For Smooth Ambler, I would suggest the Old Scout Single Barrel and Single Barrel Selects from IN and the age will be included on the label. They also have a limited edition Rye which is very desirable. At this point, Smooth Ambler is best know for sourcing versus producing.

[James Lyon]

Happened upon the better part of a case of Stagg Jr batch #14 130.2 at a Shop Rite Liquors in NJ for $59.99/btl while picking up a gyro at the Greek place next door.

A4141655-16A1-4738-969B-F8DFB77FC0A0.jpeg

Nice score. You need to find an auction site, stat

What is the secondary market price?

$80-100+. The more recent releases have received stellar reviews from folks, so they may be more desirable at auction. The first couple of releases were panned. The Bottle Blue Book value is $100-120. I have found enough bottles of Stagg Jr. in NC and TN at retail to avoid any additional markups at auction.

[Leonard Taylor]

Nice score. You need to find an auction site, stat

What is the secondary market price?

$80-100+. The more recent releases have received stellar reviews from folks, so they may be more desirable at auction. The first couple of releases were panned. The Bottle Blue Book value is $100-120. I have found enough bottles of Stagg Jr. in NC and TN at retail to avoid any additional markups at auction.

I've never seen it in NC

[Andrew Kotowski]

Nice score. You need to find an auction site, stat

What is the secondary market price?

$80-100+. The more recent releases have received stellar reviews from folks, so they may be more desirable at auction. The first couple of releases were panned. The Bottle Blue Book value is $100-120. I have found enough bottles of Stagg Jr. in NC and TN at retail to avoid any additional markups at auction.

Breaking Bourbon named it their "Whiskey of the Year," which sucked the oxygen out of the market and pushed pricing up to $125-$150 range.

https://www.breakingbourbon.com/article ... ey-of-2019

I've seen it in an online forum for ~$130 shipped, but that was before the article.

[TGigante]

What is the secondary market price?

$80-100+. The more recent releases have received stellar reviews from folks, so they may be more desirable at auction. The first couple of releases were panned. The Bottle Blue Book value is $100-120. I have found enough bottles of Stagg Jr. in NC and TN at retail to avoid any additional markups at auction.

Breaking Bourbon named it their "Whiskey of the Year," which sucked the oxygen out of the market and pushed pricing up to $125-$150 range.

https://www.breakingbourbon.com/article ... ey-of-2019

I've seen it in an online forum for ~$130 shipped, but that was before the article.

Thanks everyone
Found it at a local packie for $99
Also a George T Stagg at $499. Is that a buy price?

[Andrew Kotowski]

If $500/bottle is in your wheelhouse, it's a fantastic bottle of bourbon. $400-$450 has been the going rate that I've seen, but... if you can't find it, it's a relative statement

I effectively paid $430 for one that was shipped to me.

[James Lyon]

What is the secondary market price?

$80-100+. The more recent releases have received stellar reviews from folks, so they may be more desirable at auction. The first couple of releases were panned. The Bottle Blue Book value is $100-120. I have found enough bottles of Stagg Jr. in NC and TN at retail to avoid any additional markups at auction.

I've never seen it in NC

Yeah, $50 retail in NC. If I'm not mistaken, you are in the Charlotte area which is a wasteland for allocated bourbon. Probably best to visit stores in smaller communities. I purchased two (2) bottles in November 2018 from an ABC in the mountains. I have a good friend that is on a preferred client list at an ABC on the coast. He was offered Stagg Jr. last December. I have passed on Stagg Jr. a few times in TN, but picked up release 12 in December 2019 at retail.

[TGigante]

If $500/bottle is in your wheelhouse, it's a fantastic bottle of bourbon. $400-$450 has been the going rate that I've seen, but... if you can't find it, it's a relative statement

I effectively paid $430 for one that was shipped to me.

Thanks Andrew
Just trying to get honed in on pricing with all these crazy numbred bantered about

Since Many of these are hard to find, trying to see what a realistic trigger price is

I did pick up a bottle of Elmer T Lee for $199
I’m sure that is somewhere between a rip-off based on past prices and a bargain based on current frenzy pricing

As you note on the Stagg, it all relative. If it’s a great drinking bottle and you have the means, then whatever suits your fancy.

I told the guy in the shop, since I was only going to sip 1 or 2 x per month that I was looking for a something really good in the $100-$200 range. ETL was his choice over the Stagg Jr at $100 and a bunch of others which I don’t recall. He said once I tried it, I would be hooked and want to drink it everyday. I said if that occurred, I would need a more budget friendly daily drinker. His choice there was Four Roses Small Batch at $34. I also said if I get hooked enough to drink hourly, then I would need a recommendation under $10 a bottle.

Thanks everyone for helping out a newbie. Had a good taste of Hillrock solara over the weekend so that might be a good middle ground

[Leonard Taylor]

That's funny Tony. If you ask me I find Eagle Rare 10 year incredible and very hard to beat for a daily drinker. Around $30 IIRC. My tastes just cannot justify spending over $100 for anything. It is mostly just hype and demand from trophy hunters after that. There are some people that spend ridiculous amounts of time hunting for stuff and then take a picture of the bottle as soon as they get back to their car to show off.

[TGigante]

That's funny Tony. If you ask me I find Eagle Rare 10 year incredible and very hard to beat for a daily drinker. Around $30 IIRC. My tastes just cannot justify spending over $100 for anything. It is mostly just hype and demand from trophy hunters after that. There are some people that spend ridiculous amounts of time hunting for stuff and then take a picture of the bottle as soon as they get back to their car to show off.

Thanks Leonard
This thread is helpful to guys like me as I don’t drink often and only know the banter from friends and acquaintances

[alan weinberg]

interesting read: https://chapfour.com/the-drop/2019/5/21 ... 3A57%3A25Z

[Kris Patten]

That's funny Tony. If you ask me I find Eagle Rare 10 year incredible and very hard to beat for a daily drinker. Around $30 IIRC. My tastes just cannot justify spending over $100 for anything. It is mostly just hype and demand from trophy hunters after that. There are some people that spend ridiculous amounts of time hunting for stuff and then take a picture of the bottle as soon as they get back to their car to show off.

Thanks Leonard
This thread is helpful to guys like me as I don’t drink often and only know the banter from friends and acquaintances

The easiest to find and best daily/weekly quaffs I find below, all from a list we sell, so I taste more regularly.

Sazerac: Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare 10, Benchmark (basically 4 year old BT), EH Taylor Small Batch, Saz 6yr Rye, Isaac Bowman

Brown Forman: Woodford Reserve, DO, and Rye, Old Fo 100pf Bourbon, Rye and Statesman and 1920 and 1897

Four Roses: Bourbon, Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Batch Select

Garrison Bros. Small Batch

Heavens Door Straight and Rye


Hope it helps.

[TGigante]

That's funny Tony. If you ask me I find Eagle Rare 10 year incredible and very hard to beat for a daily drinker. Around $30 IIRC. My tastes just cannot justify spending over $100 for anything. It is mostly just hype and demand from trophy hunters after that. There are some people that spend ridiculous amounts of time hunting for stuff and then take a picture of the bottle as soon as they get back to their car to show off.

Thanks Leonard
This thread is helpful to guys like me as I don’t drink often and only know the banter from friends and acquaintances

The easiest to find and best daily/weekly quaffs I find below, all from a list we sell, so I taste more regularly.

Sazerac: Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare 10, Benchmark (basically 4 year old BT), EH Taylor Small Batch, Saz 6yr Rye, Isaac Bowman

Brown Forman: Woodford Reserve, DO, and Rye, Old Fo 100pf Bourbon, Rye and Statesman and 1920 and 1897

Four Roses: Bourbon, Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Batch Select

Garrison Bros. Small Batch

Heavens Door Straight and Rye


Hope it helps.

Thank you Kris

[Robert M yers]

Does anybody think these are worth entering my states lottery for a chance to purchase? I’m entering for the obvious ones ETL, Old Fitz, EHT, ect but not sure of values or how the reasonable lesser priced ones might drink.
Mister Sam, $249.98
King of Kentucky, $249.99
Double Eagle Very Rare, $2,000.00
Old Fashioned Copper (O.F.C.), $2,400.98
Woodford Reserve Baccarat, $2,127.65

[Adam Noble]

Haven’t tried any of them and don’t know the Mister Sam at all but other than that and the Woodford I’m sure you could flip the bottles for a VERY decent profit on the secondary market.

[Kelly Walker]

A few friends over for some rotisserie chicken.

My favorite Weller was the Antique.

[Craig G]

Speaking of, a few years ago I could get Weller Antique for around $30-35 most of the time locally and became very attached to it for mixing, mostly Old Fashioneds. That ship sailed and I switched to David Nicholson 1843, which I like quite a bit for that purpose.

Does anyone have a better recommendation for this (mixing Bourbon that I’d like if I like Weller Antique)? Say up to $35 (Nicholson is $27 at K&L now, maybe lower at Total).

[Robert M yers]

Have you tried Larceny?

[Leonard Taylor]

A few friends over for some rotisserie chicken.

My favorite Weller was the Antique.

I like rotisserie chicken

[Adam Noble]

If you could only pick 1 between the Pappy's 15/20 and BTAC offerings, what would your top 3 choices be?

Keeping in mind this would be to drink, not resale.

I’ve never had Eagle Rare 17 and desperately want to so that would be my pick. Come to think of it I’ve not tried Wm Larue Weller yet. But for what I have tried, Pappy 15. I prefer it to the 20 because it is spicier/less smooth and it’s more interesting to me. Both are excellent and not worth secondary prices. Get one at a bar for $50 a shot and spend the money on Stagg Jr or Weller OWA.

So Pappy 15
Pappy 20
GTS

Eagle Rare 17 is the best 80 proof Whiskey in the world. Didn't get to try 2019 yet at a little higher proof.

Having finally gotten a chance to try some (thanks, Scott!), I must agree. No contest really.

[Kris Patten]

Speaking of, a few years ago I could get Weller Antique for around $30-35 most of the time locally and became very attached to it for mixing, mostly Old Fashioneds. That ship sailed and I switched to David Nicholson 1843, which I like quite a bit for that purpose.

Does anyone have a better recommendation for this (mixing Bourbon that I’d like if I like Weller Antique)? Say up to $35 (Nicholson is $27 at K&L now, maybe lower at Total).

That's tough as wheaters are hard to find and expensive, under $35 basically leaves you Makers Mark and Larceny, not sure what Wyoming Whiskey goes for around you, worth a shot too. On the little higher end that is more flavorful and textural like Weller is Garrison Bros.

[Mike Maguire]

I would throw in the Old Elk Wheater, outstanding but $75

[JC J o u a s]

Craig G, I like you thought OWA107 was the greatest value in the whiskey world while it lasted and based on that, kind of feel like you should browse other higher proofed offerings when looking for a substitute. I also fully agree with Kris Patten in that there is not a lot of choices in that value wheater category. With that said, I might give a look for the Larceny Barrel Proof offering which gets released 3 times a year at around the $50 price point but be forewarned, those do seem to disappear off the shelves pretty quickly.

Mike Maguire, if we are upping the price point, the 100 proof Rebel Yell 10 Year Single Barrel gets my vote as the one to get even if the price point has steadily risen from $50 to $60 over the past couple of years.

[Steven King]

Love love love RY 10!

[Craig G]

Thanks, everybody. I had bought a bottle of Larceny to try. I’ll look into some of the others as well.

I’m not sure the high proof is necessary for me. I’d probably prefer OWA slightly diluted. I have one bottle of the Weller Special Reserve that I picked up after things started getting scarce, but it was rarely on the shelves at my local places, so OWA was what I drank.

[Andrew Kotowski]

I’m not sure the high proof is necessary for me. I’d probably prefer OWA slightly diluted. I have one bottle of the Weller Special Reserve that I picked up after things started getting scarce, but it was rarely on the shelves at my local places, so OWA was what I drank.

Saw this on a friend's IG account and laughed audibly... but I bet they sell quite a bit at this price.

[Craig G]

Yeah, the bottle of SR I bought was $40. I never paid that much for the OWA, but I saw the SR in a shop in Monterey and decided I’d probably never see it again for that price.

K&L occasionally drops them on their site around MSRP but they sell instantly. I check the new product feed fairly often but I’ve never been lucky enough to snag a bottle.