The Next MACDONALD?

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blarmston
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#151 Post by blarmston » October 10th, 2018, 11:00 pm

I think we should lay this thread to rest, as it’s clearly been victimized by thread drift. All good, but my email notifications on people posting is getting a bit ridiculous. Better to let this one go to bed for now and start up somewhere else...
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#152 Post by Frank Z » October 11th, 2018, 8:44 am

Joe Mendez wrote:
October 10th, 2018, 10:08 pm
Bill G wrote:
October 10th, 2018, 8:40 am
Frank Z wrote:
October 9th, 2018, 10:11 pm
La Pelle 6-pk shipped today. Hopefully the weather is alright on the 2-day trip down to Southern California.
Please send TN asap!
+1 Can you post tasting notes.
It's arriving today, so I'll post as soon as I can (most likely tomorrow/Saturday) on a different thread, as this thread has too many topics. Unfortunately, I only ordered the Sauvignon Blanc (too many Cabernet purchases this cycle already), so if you guys were looking for TN for the Cab Sauv, I apologize in advance!
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#153 Post by Brian Tuite » October 11th, 2018, 7:52 pm

Steve Crawford wrote:
October 10th, 2018, 6:15 am
Jorge B wrote:
October 9th, 2018, 6:54 pm
Steve Crawford wrote:
October 9th, 2018, 1:13 pm

I am less than confident bret is racking barrels or adding sulfur neener
'a key piece of what goes in to each wine' if that doesn't sound like a line from a 'wine educator' I don't know what does.
doesn't really make a difference anyway. it's a great wine.
This makes for an interesting segue and conversation... Does Bret not racking barrels nor adding sulfur make him less of a winemaker?

Where do you draw the line between the "vision" and the "execution"? Who deserves the credit? If Bret is tasting the wine, making decisions as to how long to leave in oak, when to rack, how much sulfur is added, when to pick, when to bottle, etc. but doesn't lift a finger - is he the winemaker, or not?
you are correct this is an interesting question. it's actually one of my favorite wine things to discuss. it's all relative depending on the label.
i know of only 1 winemaker, who does literally everything from once the grapes are indoors and processed, brad grimes. when i say literally everything I mean zero interns/cellar workers/assistants. im sure there's more besides Brad. there are obviously lots of winemakers who do absolutely everything once interns are gone.
vision, execution, and credit are all extremely vague and ambiguous. im sure you're aware of that as you used quotations.
I used some hyperbole intentionally regarding racking barrels and sulfur adds, as there are very few actual Winemakers (capitalization on purpose) who do that.
as a lawyer, my answer is as it usually is, it depends.
Here’s Brad, doing all the work. newhere
73FF262A-1C1F-4D20-AA3C-8CC6EB45A977.jpeg
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#154 Post by Steve Crawford » October 13th, 2018, 10:31 am

Brian-you copied and pasted what i said, but you clearly didn't read it and/or comprehend it. nice try though champagne.gif

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#155 Post by Brian Tuite » October 13th, 2018, 3:31 pm

Steve Crawford wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 10:31 am
Brian-you copied and pasted what i said, but you clearly didn't read it and/or comprehend it. nice try though champagne.gif
I actually caught that after I posted but decided to take my lumps anyhow. What took you so long?

I still don’t think Brad is climbing in tanks and shoveling pomace, but what do I know? If you’re saying that he does all the adds, racking, barreling, topping himself that’s not all that rare. I know Mike Smith does that for at the least all of his Myriad and Quivet.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#156 Post by Eric Werner » October 13th, 2018, 5:44 pm

I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but what about Roy Piper’s wine? Small production, amazing attention to detail, good/great vineyards. Plus, if you even wanted to know/learn about how to grow grapes and make wine, Roy’s video’s will teach it all to you. No idea if he wants to be considered in this way, but it sure it good wine.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#157 Post by Alan Eden » October 13th, 2018, 7:33 pm

Eric

Roy does make fantastic wine but to be the next Macdonald you really need to own the vineyard and Roy buys all his fruit
There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#158 Post by Eric Werner » October 13th, 2018, 9:50 pm

Fair enough.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#159 Post by Kris Patten » October 13th, 2018, 9:58 pm

Pott Incubo should be a candidate. Minuscule vineyard, awesome winemaker, great location and low production and not $300+ a bottle.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#160 Post by Joe W i n o g r a d » October 13th, 2018, 10:51 pm

Not Napa cab, but an estate vineyard, a talented winemaker, and “a story”... This went out today to the Domaine de la Cote list


A simple blind tasting becomes a powerful film.

I've just left the Solvang Theater after the premiere of SOMM III, the third installment in filmmaker Jason Wise's documentary series about the world of fine wine. Our 2014 Bloom's Field Pinot Noir figures into the film in an integral and exciting way. I can't tell you how heartened I am by how the wine was received on screen by people whom I deeply respect and admire.

No spoilers, but I DO want to share the trailer and offer some of our library stock of 2014 Bloom's Field to you in recognition of your support of our efforts. We'll have many people looking for this wine in short order and it's only fitting we offer it to you first.

All my best,
-Raj


2014 Bloom's Field
Pinot Noir

We've opened the library to make our library stock of 2014 Bloom's Field available to you. Cheers!

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#161 Post by david dickerson » October 14th, 2018, 2:33 am

Adler Deutsch...

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#162 Post by Steve Crawford » October 16th, 2018, 1:23 pm

Brian Tuite wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 3:31 pm
Steve Crawford wrote:
October 13th, 2018, 10:31 am
Brian-you copied and pasted what i said, but you clearly didn't read it and/or comprehend it. nice try though champagne.gif
I actually caught that after I posted but decided to take my lumps anyhow. What took you so long?

I still don’t think Brad is climbing in tanks and shoveling pomace, but what do I know? If you’re saying that he does all the adds, racking, barreling, topping himself that’s not all that rare. I know Mike Smith does that for at the least all of his Myriad and Quivet.
sorry i've just been occupied with other things. yea a few years i bribed Brad (by bringing a 2000 thorevilos,his first vintage)into having lunch with me at Bouchon. he informed me he does everything. everything. he's the only employee in the winery. hosing down tanks, topping himself etc. no interns, cellar workers, nada. i didn't realize that he got his start under mark aubert at Sloan.
i was interested in interning for him. if i remember correctly he said he has had an intern once or twice, but no longer.
he is a cool cat for sure and I am not surprised that he is as successful as he is.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#163 Post by Brian Tuite » September 23rd, 2020, 6:19 am

Mike Evans wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:45 pm
Whatever it is, I just hope its fans don’t feel compelled to write the name in all caps.
You mean like they do it on the label?

78AEB4A5-3120-4D99-A469-D3602C9028E1.jpeg

Or on the website?


89225B20-62AA-497D-A352-5DD4A19134BC.png

Asking for a friend.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#164 Post by Mike Evans » September 23rd, 2020, 6:48 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 6:19 am
Mike Evans wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:45 pm
Whatever it is, I just hope its fans don’t feel compelled to write the name in all caps.
You mean like they do it on the label?


78AEB4A5-3120-4D99-A469-D3602C9028E1.jpeg


Or on the website?



89225B20-62AA-497D-A352-5DD4A19134BC.png


Asking for a friend.
I think one can support the producer without parroting their annoying affectation.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#165 Post by Brian Tuite » September 23rd, 2020, 7:16 am

Mike Evans wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 6:48 am
Brian Tuite wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 6:19 am
Mike Evans wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 7:45 pm
Whatever it is, I just hope its fans don’t feel compelled to write the name in all caps.
You mean like they do it on the label?


78AEB4A5-3120-4D99-A469-D3602C9028E1.jpeg


Or on the website?



89225B20-62AA-497D-A352-5DD4A19134BC.png


Asking for a friend.
I think one can support the producer without parroting their annoying affectation.
Perhaps we need a poll. pepsi
Bob Wood - 1949-2013 Berserker for eternity! RIP

"On self-reflection, I think a big part of it was me just being a PITA customer..." ~ Anonymous Berserker

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#166 Post by JohnP » September 24th, 2020, 6:34 am

Glad to see this post bumped. However, two years later and nothing has truly surfaced as becoming the "next MacD", a true anomaly for sure! Still kicking rocks that I didn't get on this list earlier (2018) [dash1.gif]
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#167 Post by Gray G » September 24th, 2020, 6:45 am

JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:34 am
Glad to see this post bumped. However, two years later and nothing has truly surfaced as becoming the "next MacD", a true anomaly for sure! Still kicking rocks that I didn't get on this list earlier (2018) [dash1.gif]
hahaha

the next MACDONALD LOL

there will not be such a thing

(yet I hope to try a MACDONALD someday as I am of Scottish origin)
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#168 Post by Kris Patten » September 24th, 2020, 7:40 am

Tough to mirror historic site + vineyard ownership these days. There is likely more potential for a next cult in Sonoma vs. Napa, the biggest issue being most cults are Cab and most older vineyards are Zin or Petite.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#169 Post by NED VALOIS » September 24th, 2020, 8:00 am

Maybe it is the secret MacDonald's Reserve that only a few of us get ?

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#170 Post by JohnP » September 24th, 2020, 8:10 am

NED VALOIS wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 am
Maybe it is the secret MacDonald's Reserve that only a few of us get ?
I call bs...wait, is there such a thing?
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#171 Post by Joe B » September 24th, 2020, 10:02 am

JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:10 am
NED VALOIS wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 am
Maybe it is the secret MacDonald's Reserve that only a few of us get ?
I call bs...wait, is there such a thing?
I’m not telling but.......
J W@ll @ce

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#172 Post by Kris Patten » September 24th, 2020, 12:15 pm

Joe B wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 10:02 am
JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:10 am
NED VALOIS wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 am
Maybe it is the secret MacDonald's Reserve that only a few of us get ?
I call bs...wait, is there such a thing?
I’m not telling but.......
Weird, I only get the Historic Vine Cabernet from the oldest vines in the vineyard. Didn't know about Reserve.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#173 Post by Josh Grossman » September 24th, 2020, 12:40 pm

Kris Patten wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 12:15 pm
Joe B wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 10:02 am
JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:10 am


I call bs...wait, is there such a thing?
I’m not telling but.......
Weird, I only get the Historic Vine Cabernet from the oldest vines in the vineyard. Didn't know about Reserve.
There are actually 10 cases of 'reserve' old vine only running around in the family:

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#174 Post by FMansfield » September 24th, 2020, 4:07 pm

Brandon R wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:41 am
Damn this board! In for three of the W&M Cab.
Same here!! This thread helped me pull the trigger today. The other two wines they have are sold out already. ;(
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#175 Post by ChrisWolff » September 24th, 2020, 5:20 pm

J.Vizuete wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 8:46 pm
Appreciate the tip, Dustin and Tex

My mind runs a little like Larry’s - I think the next 5+ year wait list is going to be something that scratches the northern Rhône itch in that low alcohol, highly aromatic, lean, acid driven way - maybe a Pax, Arnot Roberts or Jolie Laide.

To stay on topic, I’ll throw out Dan Petroski’s new label, Ashes and Diamonds as one to follow
What is the back story with Pax? Just did some googling on them and a 2008 lawsuit with a partner story comes up. Did Mahle keep the company and Donelan started his own?

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#176 Post by Joe B » September 24th, 2020, 5:58 pm

That was a great video.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#177 Post by Roy Piper » September 24th, 2020, 7:55 pm

Joe B wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 10:02 am
JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:10 am
NED VALOIS wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 am
Maybe it is the secret MacDonald's Reserve that only a few of us get ?
I call bs...wait, is there such a thing?
I’m not telling but.......
Don't worry folks, he is just teasing. MacD makes just one wine. [snort.gif]
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#178 Post by Roy Piper » September 24th, 2020, 8:00 pm

JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:34 am
Glad to see this post bumped. However, two years later and nothing has truly surfaced as becoming the "next MacD", a true anomaly for sure! [dash1.gif]
And nothing will. Because you have to get dirt of that quality, first. There are patches of dirt roughly at the MacD level in other places, but 99/100 times it is blended into another wine or not managed as well. MacD is in a crazy good spot and they make only one wine from it. Mondavi gets the rest and they blend it into a few of their wines, so you don't get the isolated greatness.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#179 Post by David Crow » September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm

Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#180 Post by luc@sl@belle » September 24th, 2020, 8:36 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 pm
JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:34 am
Glad to see this post bumped. However, two years later and nothing has truly surfaced as becoming the "next MacD", a true anomaly for sure! [dash1.gif]
And nothing will. Because you have to get dirt of that quality, first. There are patches of dirt roughly at the MacD level in other places, but 99/100 times it is blended into another wine or not managed as well. MacD is in a crazy good spot and they make only one wine from it. Mondavi gets the rest and they blend it into a few of their wines, so you don't get the isolated greatness.


Exactly.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#181 Post by Roy Piper » September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm

David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
Oh boy, don't get me started....

A few spots in Mondavi ToKalon are very close, but I am not sure how well they manage that, sometimes. I-Block, which makes the great Sauv Blanc, right next to MacDonald, is insane. I think parts of Abreu Madrona is right there, although not as gravelly. I saw a small part of Las Piedras that is incredible; just a rock pile. Hobbs gets that. "Helms," owned by Dana, is epic in every way. Before Dana, it was known as "Livingston-Moffett." Great plot.

I was a cellar rat at Quintessa for two years and they have one block on their property, "Dragon's Terrace," that was really great. It all becomes part of the main wine but by itself was staggering in barrel. There is one part of Vine Hill Ranch that has these round, grey rocks and looks like the soil was taken from The Moon... no surprise it goes into their own wine. Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Bryant is the best located Pritchard Hill vineyard, down low with a nice breeze off the lake and very different soils than the redder Pritchard Hill we usually associate with the area. One part of Panek, way in back near the river, has great rocky soil. Another vineyard, Mill Creek (formerly Shoenstein), is next to Panek and has a great block I would covet. Scarecrow has some great parts. Even better is the part of Inglenook that borders it, in back behind the knoll. That's one of the best blocks in Napa.

One unknown one is "Chabot," which goes to Beringer. For years this has made Beringer's best wine and has great gravel. Hundred Acre's "Arc" is next to it. Eisele has a couple phenomenal blocks in back. One section of Hewitt, in Rutherford, is amazing to walk, but its part of 50 planted acres and is blended into the main wine. Right next to that is "Bosche," which was a rock star in the 70s and 80s but you don't hear much about now. It has some sections that are spectacular.

The SLV part of Stags Leap, especially the block next to Fay Vineyard, is dream like. Sunspot Block, on the lower hillside of Shafer, has some of the best sun orientation in the valley, easily, and just the right drainage. Blankiet has extremely white, talcum powder soil on a small block above their winery that is fascinating.

One of the absolute best is the former Eden Rock, now mostly known as "St. Eden", next to Rudd, that goes to Bond. I don't know anyone who would not move heaven and earth to get that if it ever came available. It's my favorite Bond in most years and use to go to Etude for years when Tony Soter owned it.

I could probably keep going. flirtysmile
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#182 Post by K.C0LBURN » September 24th, 2020, 11:00 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
I could probably keep going. flirtysmile
YES. All of this post was [dance-clap.gif]
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#183 Post by Andrew Demaree » September 25th, 2020, 5:45 am

Good call on Chabot Vineyard, Roy. Several Beringer cabs from there in the ‘90s were excellent. Haven’t had more recent vintages aside from the ‘08 which, unfortunately, wasn’t at the same level.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#184 Post by Howard Cooper » September 25th, 2020, 5:51 am

Gray G wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:45 am


(yet I hope to try a MACDONALD someday as I am of Scottish origin)
So, if you are interested in MACDONALD and are Scottish, I guess you are hoping that the next cult California wine is NOT named CAMPBELL. And, as a fan of MACDONALD, I assume you would never pledge allegiance to WILLIAM AND MARY?
Last edited by Howard Cooper on September 25th, 2020, 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#185 Post by David Crow » September 25th, 2020, 5:57 am

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
Oh boy, don't get me started....

A few spots in Mondavi ToKalon are very close, but I am not sure how well they manage that, sometimes. I-Block, which makes the great Sauv Blanc, right next to MacDonald, is insane. I think parts of Abreu Madrona is right there, although not as gravelly. I saw a small part of Las Piedras that is incredible; just a rock pile. Hobbs gets that. "Helms," owned by Dana, is epic in every way. Before Dana, it was known as "Livingston-Moffett." Great plot.

I was a cellar rat at Quintessa for two years and they have one block on their property, "Dragon's Terrace," that was really great. It all becomes part of the main wine but by itself was staggering in barrel. There is one part of Vine Hill Ranch that has these round, grey rocks and looks like the soil was taken from The Moon... no surprise it goes into their own wine. Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Bryant is the best located Pritchard Hill vineyard, down low with a nice breeze off the lake and very different soils than the redder Pritchard Hill we usually associate with the area. One part of Panek, way in back near the river, has great rocky soil. Another vineyard, Mill Creek (formerly Shoenstein), is next to Panek and has a great block I would covet. Scarecrow has some great parts. Even better is the part of Inglenook that borders it, in back behind the knoll. That's one of the best blocks in Napa.

One unknown one is "Chabot," which goes to Beringer. For years this has made Beringer's best wine and has great gravel. Hundred Acre's "Arc" is next to it. Eisele has a couple phenomenal blocks in back. One section of Hewitt, in Rutherford, is amazing to walk, but its part of 50 planted acres and is blended into the main wine. Right next to that is "Bosche," which was a rock star in the 70s and 80s but you don't hear much about now. It has some sections that are spectacular.

The SLV part of Stags Leap, especially the block next to Fay Vineyard, is dream like. Sunspot Block, on the lower hillside of Shafer, has some of the best sun orientation in the valley, easily, and just the right drainage. Blankiet has extremely white, talcum powder soil on a small block above their winery that is fascinating.

One of the absolute best is the former Eden Rock, now mostly known as "St. Eden", next to Rudd, that goes to Bond. I don't know anyone who would not move heaven and earth to get that if it ever came available. It's my favorite Bond in most years and use to go to Etude for years when Tony Soter owned it.

I could probably keep going. flirtysmile
Wow Roy! What great insight. This is the kind of stuff you can’t find anywhere else. I’d love to hear more.

I’m also curious from a winemaking / marketing / business standpoint why more wineries that have access to these truly special sites don’t break them out as their own small offering, even if it’s only a barrel or two. Seems that type of limited release wine could add a halo effect to a larger brand.

Or does blending these sites into larger blends actually elevate it even further? I know in TRB’s release notes for Rivers Marie this year he talked about getting access to that back block from Panek you mentioned, as well as how he blended various blocks from Herb Lamb together. It sounded like he thought as good as certain blocks were it actually made a better overall wine to blend them with other parts of the vineyard.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#186 Post by Brian Tuite » September 25th, 2020, 6:01 am

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 pm
JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:34 am
Glad to see this post bumped. However, two years later and nothing has truly surfaced as becoming the "next MacD", a true anomaly for sure! [dash1.gif]
And nothing will. Because you have to get dirt of that quality, first. There are patches of dirt roughly at the MacD level in other places, but 99/100 times it is blended into another wine or not managed as well. MacD is in a crazy good spot and they make only one wine from it. Mondavi gets the rest and they blend it into a few of their wines, so you don't get the isolated greatness.
I’ve heard, through the grapevine, that a portion of Macdonald that previously went into a Mondavi blend became available and was snagged up by another producer to be SVD’d under the vineyard Ownership name in ‘21 and beyond. Now that’s a coup of sorts. Could it be the “next” MACDONALD?
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#187 Post by David Crow » September 25th, 2020, 6:35 am

Brian Tuite wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 6:01 am
Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 pm
JohnP wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:34 am
Glad to see this post bumped. However, two years later and nothing has truly surfaced as becoming the "next MacD", a true anomaly for sure! [dash1.gif]
And nothing will. Because you have to get dirt of that quality, first. There are patches of dirt roughly at the MacD level in other places, but 99/100 times it is blended into another wine or not managed as well. MacD is in a crazy good spot and they make only one wine from it. Mondavi gets the rest and they blend it into a few of their wines, so you don't get the isolated greatness.
I’ve heard, through the grapevine, that a portion of Macdonald that previously went into a Mondavi blend became available and was snagged up by another producer to be SVD’d under the vineyard Ownership name in ‘21 and beyond. Now that’s a coup of sorts. Could it be the “next” MACDONALD?
I thought they were keeping those grapes for themselves to increase production.

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#188 Post by AD Northup » September 25th, 2020, 6:57 am

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
Oh boy, don't get me started....

A few spots in Mondavi ToKalon are very close, but I am not sure how well they manage that, sometimes. I-Block, which makes the great Sauv Blanc, right next to MacDonald, is insane. I think parts of Abreu Madrona is right there, although not as gravelly. I saw a small part of Las Piedras that is incredible; just a rock pile. Hobbs gets that. "Helms," owned by Dana, is epic in every way. Before Dana, it was known as "Livingston-Moffett." Great plot.

I was a cellar rat at Quintessa for two years and they have one block on their property, "Dragon's Terrace," that was really great. It all becomes part of the main wine but by itself was staggering in barrel. There is one part of Vine Hill Ranch that has these round, grey rocks and looks like the soil was taken from The Moon... no surprise it goes into their own wine. Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Bryant is the best located Pritchard Hill vineyard, down low with a nice breeze off the lake and very different soils than the redder Pritchard Hill we usually associate with the area. One part of Panek, way in back near the river, has great rocky soil. Another vineyard, Mill Creek (formerly Shoenstein), is next to Panek and has a great block I would covet. Scarecrow has some great parts. Even better is the part of Inglenook that borders it, in back behind the knoll. That's one of the best blocks in Napa.

One unknown one is "Chabot," which goes to Beringer. For years this has made Beringer's best wine and has great gravel. Hundred Acre's "Arc" is next to it. Eisele has a couple phenomenal blocks in back. One section of Hewitt, in Rutherford, is amazing to walk, but its part of 50 planted acres and is blended into the main wine. Right next to that is "Bosche," which was a rock star in the 70s and 80s but you don't hear much about now. It has some sections that are spectacular.

The SLV part of Stags Leap, especially the block next to Fay Vineyard, is dream like. Sunspot Block, on the lower hillside of Shafer, has some of the best sun orientation in the valley, easily, and just the right drainage. Blankiet has extremely white, talcum powder soil on a small block above their winery that is fascinating.

One of the absolute best is the former Eden Rock, now mostly known as "St. Eden", next to Rudd, that goes to Bond. I don't know anyone who would not move heaven and earth to get that if it ever came available. It's my favorite Bond in most years and use to go to Etude for years when Tony Soter owned it.

I could probably keep going. flirtysmile
How much additional work would it be for these places to make a single block bottling/why isn’t it more common where there may be a distinct quality (maybe not the right word) difference?
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#189 Post by Dan Hammer » September 25th, 2020, 7:40 am

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
Oh boy, don't get me started....

A few spots in Mondavi ToKalon are very close, but I am not sure how well they manage that, sometimes. I-Block, which makes the great Sauv Blanc, right next to MacDonald, is insane. I think parts of Abreu Madrona is right there, although not as gravelly. I saw a small part of Las Piedras that is incredible; just a rock pile. Hobbs gets that. "Helms," owned by Dana, is epic in every way. Before Dana, it was known as "Livingston-Moffett." Great plot.

I was a cellar rat at Quintessa for two years and they have one block on their property, "Dragon's Terrace," that was really great. It all becomes part of the main wine but by itself was staggering in barrel. There is one part of Vine Hill Ranch that has these round, grey rocks and looks like the soil was taken from The Moon... no surprise it goes into their own wine. Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Bryant is the best located Pritchard Hill vineyard, down low with a nice breeze off the lake and very different soils than the redder Pritchard Hill we usually associate with the area. One part of Panek, way in back near the river, has great rocky soil. Another vineyard, Mill Creek (formerly Shoenstein), is next to Panek and has a great block I would covet. Scarecrow has some great parts. Even better is the part of Inglenook that borders it, in back behind the knoll. That's one of the best blocks in Napa.

One unknown one is "Chabot," which goes to Beringer. For years this has made Beringer's best wine and has great gravel. Hundred Acre's "Arc" is next to it. Eisele has a couple phenomenal blocks in back. One section of Hewitt, in Rutherford, is amazing to walk, but its part of 50 planted acres and is blended into the main wine. Right next to that is "Bosche," which was a rock star in the 70s and 80s but you don't hear much about now. It has some sections that are spectacular.

The SLV part of Stags Leap, especially the block next to Fay Vineyard, is dream like. Sunspot Block, on the lower hillside of Shafer, has some of the best sun orientation in the valley, easily, and just the right drainage. Blankiet has extremely white, talcum powder soil on a small block above their winery that is fascinating.

One of the absolute best is the former Eden Rock, now mostly known as "St. Eden", next to Rudd, that goes to Bond. I don't know anyone who would not move heaven and earth to get that if it ever came available. It's my favorite Bond in most years and use to go to Etude for years when Tony Soter owned it.

I could probably keep going. flirtysmile
So many trips to Napa over the years spent visiting winemakers. I think the next trip will involve touring the vineyards instead.
The visual of the history of each vineyard will help me to further appreciate the wine.

Thanks Roy.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#190 Post by JohnP » September 25th, 2020, 7:48 am

@RoyPiper Thanks for sharing that info, it's intel like that I totally geek out on. I really enjoy listening to Doug Shafer's podcast and recently he had Andy Erickson on which they discussed the Screaming Eagle vineyard. Andy said when he came onboard (2006) when ownership changed, they hired a vinicultural consultant (Bob Gallagher) and they dug 75 soil pits or so. Andy says Bob tells them "this is the first time in my career where I can pretty recommend not doing anything" to most of the vineyard. Andy said it turned out that the majority of the property was A to A+ soil. Lastly, Andy mentioned that Jean Phillips thought there was one little hillside that produced the best wines. Just imagine, getting to taste "that" barrel.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#191 Post by Brian Tuite » September 25th, 2020, 7:52 am

David Crow wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 6:35 am
Brian Tuite wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 6:01 am
Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:00 pm


And nothing will. Because you have to get dirt of that quality, first. There are patches of dirt roughly at the MacD level in other places, but 99/100 times it is blended into another wine or not managed as well. MacD is in a crazy good spot and they make only one wine from it. Mondavi gets the rest and they blend it into a few of their wines, so you don't get the isolated greatness.
I’ve heard, through the grapevine, that a portion of Macdonald that previously went into a Mondavi blend became available and was snagged up by another producer to be SVD’d under the vineyard Ownership name in ‘21 and beyond. Now that’s a coup of sorts. Could it be the “next” MACDONALD?
I thought they were keeping those grapes for themselves to increase production.
Apparently not all of them.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#192 Post by David Crow » September 25th, 2020, 7:53 am

JohnP wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 7:48 am
@RoyPiper Thanks for sharing that info, it's intel like that I totally geek out on. I really enjoy listening to Doug Shafer's podcast and recently he had Andy Erickson on which they discussed the Screaming Eagle vineyard. Andy said when he came onboard (2006) when ownership changed, they hired a vinicultural consultant (Bob Gallagher) and they dug 75 soil pits or so. Andy says Bob tells them "this is the first time in my career where I can pretty recommend not doing anything" to most of the vineyard. Andy said it turned out that the majority of the property was A to A+ soil. Lastly, Andy mentioned that Jean Phillips thought there was one little hillside that produced the best wines. Just imagine, getting to taste "that" barrel.
Since the Screaming Eagle vineyard is close to 50 acres I think and they only produce a few hundred cases this begs the question of where the rest of the fruit goes. An upcoming De Negoce?

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#193 Post by Gray G » September 25th, 2020, 8:30 am

Dan Hammer wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 7:40 am
Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
Oh boy, don't get me started....

A few spots in Mondavi ToKalon are very close, but I am not sure how well they manage that, sometimes. I-Block, which makes the great Sauv Blanc, right next to MacDonald, is insane. I think parts of Abreu Madrona is right there, although not as gravelly. I saw a small part of Las Piedras that is incredible; just a rock pile. Hobbs gets that. "Helms," owned by Dana, is epic in every way. Before Dana, it was known as "Livingston-Moffett." Great plot.

I was a cellar rat at Quintessa for two years and they have one block on their property, "Dragon's Terrace," that was really great. It all becomes part of the main wine but by itself was staggering in barrel. There is one part of Vine Hill Ranch that has these round, grey rocks and looks like the soil was taken from The Moon... no surprise it goes into their own wine. Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Bryant is the best located Pritchard Hill vineyard, down low with a nice breeze off the lake and very different soils than the redder Pritchard Hill we usually associate with the area. One part of Panek, way in back near the river, has great rocky soil. Another vineyard, Mill Creek (formerly Shoenstein), is next to Panek and has a great block I would covet. Scarecrow has some great parts. Even better is the part of Inglenook that borders it, in back behind the knoll. That's one of the best blocks in Napa.

One unknown one is "Chabot," which goes to Beringer. For years this has made Beringer's best wine and has great gravel. Hundred Acre's "Arc" is next to it. Eisele has a couple phenomenal blocks in back. One section of Hewitt, in Rutherford, is amazing to walk, but its part of 50 planted acres and is blended into the main wine. Right next to that is "Bosche," which was a rock star in the 70s and 80s but you don't hear much about now. It has some sections that are spectacular.

The SLV part of Stags Leap, especially the block next to Fay Vineyard, is dream like. Sunspot Block, on the lower hillside of Shafer, has some of the best sun orientation in the valley, easily, and just the right drainage. Blankiet has extremely white, talcum powder soil on a small block above their winery that is fascinating.

One of the absolute best is the former Eden Rock, now mostly known as "St. Eden", next to Rudd, that goes to Bond. I don't know anyone who would not move heaven and earth to get that if it ever came available. It's my favorite Bond in most years and use to go to Etude for years when Tony Soter owned it.

I could probably keep going. flirtysmile
So many trips to Napa over the years spent visiting winemakers. I think the next trip will involve touring the vineyards instead.
The visual of the history of each vineyard will help me to further appreciate the wine.

Thanks Roy.
terroir
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#194 Post by Gray G » September 25th, 2020, 8:37 am

Howard Cooper wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 5:51 am
Gray G wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:45 am


(yet I hope to try a MACDONALD someday as I am of Scottish origin)
So, if you are interested in MACDONALD and are Scottish, I guess you are hoping that the next cult California wine is NOT named CAMPBELL. And, as a fan of MACDONALD, I assume you would never pledge allegiance to WILLIAM AND MARY?
hahaha

Lots of Williams and Marys in our family tree, it is the UK after all

just read about the slaughter of the Macdonalds by the Campbells at Glencoe

loved the movie Braveheart

cheers
my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#195 Post by Howard Cooper » September 25th, 2020, 10:48 am

Gray G wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:37 am
Howard Cooper wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 5:51 am
Gray G wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 6:45 am


(yet I hope to try a MACDONALD someday as I am of Scottish origin)
So, if you are interested in MACDONALD and are Scottish, I guess you are hoping that the next cult California wine is NOT named CAMPBELL. And, as a fan of MACDONALD, I assume you would never pledge allegiance to WILLIAM AND MARY?
hahaha

Lots of Williams and Marys in our family tree, it is the UK after all

just read about the slaughter of the Macdonalds by the Campbells at Glencoe

loved the movie Braveheart

cheers
Braveheart (which was about events taking place hundreds of years before Glencoe) was a great movie and very poor history.
Howard

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#196 Post by Gray G » September 25th, 2020, 12:19 pm

my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#197 Post by Josh Grossman » October 3rd, 2020, 5:55 am

Gray G wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 8:30 am
Dan Hammer wrote:
September 25th, 2020, 7:40 am
Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm


Oh boy, don't get me started....

A few spots in Mondavi ToKalon are very close, but I am not sure how well they manage that, sometimes. I-Block, which makes the great Sauv Blanc, right next to MacDonald, is insane. I think parts of Abreu Madrona is right there, although not as gravelly. I saw a small part of Las Piedras that is incredible; just a rock pile. Hobbs gets that. "Helms," owned by Dana, is epic in every way. Before Dana, it was known as "Livingston-Moffett." Great plot.

I was a cellar rat at Quintessa for two years and they have one block on their property, "Dragon's Terrace," that was really great. It all becomes part of the main wine but by itself was staggering in barrel. There is one part of Vine Hill Ranch that has these round, grey rocks and looks like the soil was taken from The Moon... no surprise it goes into their own wine. Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Bryant is the best located Pritchard Hill vineyard, down low with a nice breeze off the lake and very different soils than the redder Pritchard Hill we usually associate with the area. One part of Panek, way in back near the river, has great rocky soil. Another vineyard, Mill Creek (formerly Shoenstein), is next to Panek and has a great block I would covet. Scarecrow has some great parts. Even better is the part of Inglenook that borders it, in back behind the knoll. That's one of the best blocks in Napa.

One unknown one is "Chabot," which goes to Beringer. For years this has made Beringer's best wine and has great gravel. Hundred Acre's "Arc" is next to it. Eisele has a couple phenomenal blocks in back. One section of Hewitt, in Rutherford, is amazing to walk, but its part of 50 planted acres and is blended into the main wine. Right next to that is "Bosche," which was a rock star in the 70s and 80s but you don't hear much about now. It has some sections that are spectacular.

The SLV part of Stags Leap, especially the block next to Fay Vineyard, is dream like. Sunspot Block, on the lower hillside of Shafer, has some of the best sun orientation in the valley, easily, and just the right drainage. Blankiet has extremely white, talcum powder soil on a small block above their winery that is fascinating.

One of the absolute best is the former Eden Rock, now mostly known as "St. Eden", next to Rudd, that goes to Bond. I don't know anyone who would not move heaven and earth to get that if it ever came available. It's my favorite Bond in most years and use to go to Etude for years when Tony Soter owned it.

I could probably keep going. flirtysmile
So many trips to Napa over the years spent visiting winemakers. I think the next trip will involve touring the vineyards instead.
The visual of the history of each vineyard will help me to further appreciate the wine.

Thanks Roy.
terroir
Note to self, stop buying wine made from Beckstoffer grapes...

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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#198 Post by Kris Patten » October 10th, 2020, 12:09 pm

One I forget because it's not new, but has been thru a lot of change and finding its groove thru the 80s, 90s and 00s is Rubicon Estate, now Inglenook. Now that Bascaules is firmly entrenched at Inglenook, bringing his knowledge from Chateau Margaux, it has a distinct chance to leap forward, with requisite needs, like an Estate property under their control, which also encompasses another cult vineyard, Cohn and Scarecrow, in the Rutherford appellation.

Since 2013 the regular Napa Cab bottling has garnered 96, 94, 95, 95, 94 from Galloni, and a 94 in 2017 is no easy task and it's available under $60 which is almost impossible in Rutherford for those scores.

Our fine wine team reps Inglenook, so beware of above.
Last edited by Kris Patten on October 10th, 2020, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#199 Post by Ryan A » October 10th, 2020, 12:44 pm

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
Oh boy, don't get me started....

A few spots in Mondavi ToKalon are very close, but I am not sure how well they manage that, sometimes. I-Block, which makes the great Sauv Blanc, right next to MacDonald, is insane. I think parts of Abreu Madrona is right there, although not as gravelly. I saw a small part of Las Piedras that is incredible; just a rock pile. Hobbs gets that. "Helms," owned by Dana, is epic in every way. Before Dana, it was known as "Livingston-Moffett." Great plot.

I was a cellar rat at Quintessa for two years and they have one block on their property, "Dragon's Terrace," that was really great. It all becomes part of the main wine but by itself was staggering in barrel. There is one part of Vine Hill Ranch that has these round, grey rocks and looks like the soil was taken from The Moon... no surprise it goes into their own wine. Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Bryant is the best located Pritchard Hill vineyard, down low with a nice breeze off the lake and very different soils than the redder Pritchard Hill we usually associate with the area. One part of Panek, way in back near the river, has great rocky soil. Another vineyard, Mill Creek (formerly Shoenstein), is next to Panek and has a great block I would covet. Scarecrow has some great parts. Even better is the part of Inglenook that borders it, in back behind the knoll. That's one of the best blocks in Napa.

One unknown one is "Chabot," which goes to Beringer. For years this has made Beringer's best wine and has great gravel. Hundred Acre's "Arc" is next to it. Eisele has a couple phenomenal blocks in back. One section of Hewitt, in Rutherford, is amazing to walk, but its part of 50 planted acres and is blended into the main wine. Right next to that is "Bosche," which was a rock star in the 70s and 80s but you don't hear much about now. It has some sections that are spectacular.

The SLV part of Stags Leap, especially the block next to Fay Vineyard, is dream like. Sunspot Block, on the lower hillside of Shafer, has some of the best sun orientation in the valley, easily, and just the right drainage. Blankiet has extremely white, talcum powder soil on a small block above their winery that is fascinating.

One of the absolute best is the former Eden Rock, now mostly known as "St. Eden", next to Rudd, that goes to Bond. I don't know anyone who would not move heaven and earth to get that if it ever came available. It's my favorite Bond in most years and use to go to Etude for years when Tony Soter owned it.

I could probably keep going. flirtysmile

One very unique add is the Thorevilos vineyard both in uniqueness, profile and until upcoming vintages managed and farmed by Abreu. A must try if you have not had the opportunity. Will be very curious to see how the other farmers/winemakers handle this special place going forward.
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Re: The Next MACDONALD?

#200 Post by HoosJustinG » October 22nd, 2020, 10:07 am

Roy Piper wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 9:43 pm
David Crow wrote:
September 24th, 2020, 8:23 pm
Roy, what do you think are some of the other plots that are “as good as Macdonald” but not recognized because they are blended?
Right next to VHR is a vineyard called M-Bar Ranch, that use to make a supremely elegant SVD for Mondavi many years ago. I would love to have that. Some parts of that vineyard are top notch. Round Pond owns or leases that now.

Doesn’t Round Pond make “Secret Garden” from M-Bar Ranch? Is this a valid answer to the OP’s question?
I'm a good man ... in fact, it's my last name

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