The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

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J a y H a c k
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The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#1 Post by J a y H a c k » August 22nd, 2019, 8:28 am

Where have all the big New York City Offlines disappeared to, you ask? Well, let's see. Abooboo left town. Then Leo left town. I got old and I have enough wine dinners without having to figure out a way to meet all the rest of you. Mark whose last name I forget (Franks? of the Lugeresque dinners) got tired of herding cats. Time for some of you young whipper snappers to step up.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#2 Post by Peter Kleban » August 22nd, 2019, 8:34 am

After a kvetch like that (from anyone, young or old) my grandmother used to say "another country heard from".
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#3 Post by Brent C l a y t o n » August 22nd, 2019, 8:43 am

The organized chaos is not as fun as it used to be. Fewer people and more focused themes tend to be more enjoyable.

Let’s face it, for certain individuals/groups it’s also about being with the ‘right’ people and the ‘right’ bottles.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#4 Post by J a y H a c k » August 22nd, 2019, 10:11 am

Peter Kleban wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 8:34 am
After a kvetch like that (from anyone, young or old) my grandmother used to say "another country heard from".
Another COUNTY - as in late returns from Cook County.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#5 Post by Peter Kleban » August 22nd, 2019, 8:39 pm

No, she used country. Like a debate in the UN. Look on Google, it can go either way.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#6 Post by Dan Hammer » August 23rd, 2019, 4:16 pm

Brent C l a y t o n wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 8:43 am
The organized chaos is not as fun as it used to be. Fewer people and more focused themes tend to be more enjoyable.

Let’s face it, for certain individuals/groups it’s also about being with the ‘right’ people and the ‘right’ bottles.
Oh, like, the wine chaos at Di Fara's (annual Fat Tuesday offline). neener

It would be fun to have some of those Manhattan types attend. Maybe some of their fancy French wines really do taste good. neener

Look in the offline forum for info on Di Fara. You can see the eclectic collection of wines.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#7 Post by Dan Hammer » August 23rd, 2019, 4:16 pm

Peter, I haven't seen you since PDH. You're invited!
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#8 Post by Steve L Gellman » August 23rd, 2019, 4:26 pm

Used to put together some but no longer working in the city

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#9 Post by Brian Tuite » August 26th, 2019, 12:13 pm

The guy who buys Popeye’s Chicken sandwiches and saves them until we are at 30,000 feet over some flyover States before opening them up to eat.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#10 Post by Sh@n A » September 3rd, 2019, 3:00 pm

I posted one for 2014 Produttori Riservas... maybe it is the crickets who are the problem...
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#11 Post by Dinesh Goyal » September 16th, 2019, 5:29 pm

Have missed last two events that Sh@N organized but looking forward to Produttori tasting.

Would love to attend a few more, I am not getting invited to enough of them. Barolos, Burgundies, Bordeaux, Etna Rossos and so many other regions to explore.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#12 Post by Jonathan Sirot » September 16th, 2019, 5:45 pm

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 5:29 pm
Have missed last two events that Sh@N organized but looking forward to Produttori tasting.

Would love to attend a few more, I am not getting invited to enough of them. Barolos, Burgundies, Bordeaux, Etna Rossos and so many other regions to explore.
Dinesh please come join the event I just posted at Peking Duck House. It will likely be October or might get pushed into Nov depending on response.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#13 Post by Craig G » September 16th, 2019, 10:37 pm

When I showed up to a New York offline, Jay finished his Cayuse before I made it to the restaurant.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#14 Post by Gregory Dal Piaz » October 2nd, 2019, 5:13 am

I left NYC a few years ago, took my party with me, but I do miss getting together with so many like minded geeks. It's an incredibly special part of living in the city. Here I am less than 90 minutes away and organizing an offline in these parts has so far proved to be a futile exercise. So we drink alone! Now get off my lawn.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#15 Post by J a y H a c k » October 2nd, 2019, 1:39 pm

Craig G wrote:
September 16th, 2019, 10:37 pm
When I showed up to a New York offline, Jay finished his Cayuse before I made it to the restaurant.
Which Cayuse. I usually bring those to football games because they stand up to the weather and all the smoke from 1,000 grills.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#16 Post by Mike Grammer » October 23rd, 2019, 1:30 pm

And, since it was you, Craig, it is only fair that Jay saved the plonk for you to taste [grin.gif]
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#17 Post by Ian S » December 2nd, 2019, 8:43 am

Thread Posted a month or so in advance:
"NYC offline at XXXXX on XXXXX"

Immediate Responses:
"Put me down for this!"
"I'll attend"
"Sounds great! Add me to the list."
etc. etc. etc. for about a dozen and a half members

As we get closer to the event:
"Can't make it."
"Something came up."
"I have to bow out."
etc. etc. etc for about a third of the members who responded that the would attend

Day before the event, a post by the host:
"Two last minute cancellations - who wants in?"

Night of the event:
2 or 3 more no-shows

[head-bang.gif]

Can't for the life of me figure out why nobody wants to schedule / organize these NYC dinners anymore. rolleyes [pwn.gif] neener
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#18 Post by J a y H a c k » December 2nd, 2019, 8:51 am

Ian S wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:43 am
Thread Posted a month or so in advance:
"NYC offline at XXXXX on XXXXX"

Immediate Responses:
"Put me down for this!"
"I'll attend"
"Sounds great! Add me to the list."
etc. etc. etc. for about a dozen and a half members

As we get closer to the event:
"Can't make it."
"Something came up."
"I have to bow out."
etc. etc. etc for about a third of the members who responded that the would attend

Day before the event, a post by the host:
"Two last minute cancellations - who wants in?"

Night of the event:
2 or 3 more no-shows

[head-bang.gif]

Can't for the life of me figure out why nobody wants to schedule / organize these NYC dinners anymore. rolleyes [pwn.gif] neener
You just need street cred as an organizer! After a while, you get to know who are the regular no shows. I'm going to do one once the calendar turns and we'll see what happens. "Red Meat With Big Red Wines." I will bring some big red wine that I not longer buy because they sold out to "The Man." Schrader or Outpost True. Wines from the Loire will be prohibited, so maybe that will be an enticement. [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#19 Post by Juliec » December 2nd, 2019, 8:59 am

Ian... only in nyc can you have an offline when you have a major snow storm. It left 20 inches in colorado. Ny area is better protected only by mta aka subway. You must live in the west coast. :)
Also holidays are a tough time. Ppl have lives, life and work happen. It's easy to have a phd in problem identification. Harder to be part of the solutions crew.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#20 Post by Ian S » December 2nd, 2019, 9:02 am

J a y H a c k wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:51 am

You just need street cred as an organizer! After a while, you get to know who are the regular no shows. I'm going to do one once the calendar turns and we'll see what happens. "Red Meat With Big Red Wines." I will bring some big red wine that I not longer buy because they sold out to "The Man." Schrader or Outpost True. Wines from the Loire will be prohibited, so maybe that will be an enticement. [stirthepothal.gif]
Is "street cred" still a thing with the "Whippersnapper" Millennials? I'm surprised someone under 40 hasn't replied with their bog-standard "OK Boomer. rolleyes " retort. It's bad enough that us fogeys find excuses to not meet. The Moppets would probably rather not go out at all, but instead simply text about the wine they drank or post it on one of their social media sites.
Last edited by Ian S on December 2nd, 2019, 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#21 Post by Ian S » December 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am

Juliec wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:59 am
It's easy to have a phd in problem identification. Harder to be part of the solutions crew.
Julie - a fair assessment. But identifying the problem is the first step to solving it. You can't solve people though.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#22 Post by Victor Hong » December 2nd, 2019, 9:37 am

Juliec wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:59 am
Ian... only in nyc can you have an offline when you have a major snow storm. It left 20 inches in colorado. Ny area is better protected only by mta aka subway. ....
Not if the offline happens at Fairway. newhere
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#23 Post by Ian S » December 2nd, 2019, 11:06 am

Maybe the title should be amended to "The New York City Offline Excuse Thread". neener [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#24 Post by Dan Hammer » December 2nd, 2019, 12:01 pm

Ian S wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 11:06 am
Maybe the title should be amended to "The New York City Offline Excuse Thread".
You're not allowed to post anything negative, or act childlike, until you're a Berserker in good standing. This happens after you're here for one year.

As an organizer of the annual Di Fara's offline, people are added / dropped off the list all the time. It goes with the territory. I don't take offense to it.

You're more than welcome to post one of these events. It's not easy figuring out where you want to eat, how many can attend, and what the theme is (if any).

I recently attended an offline with one other Berserker. You don't need 10 or 25 attendees to have a good time and drink nice wine. As a matter of fact, we were able to enjoy what we brought.

With the birth of a new grandson, I can't figure out why I felt to need to be curmudgeonly, but it sure was fun.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#25 Post by Ian S » December 2nd, 2019, 12:21 pm

Dan Hammer wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 12:01 pm
You're not allowed to post anything negative, or act childlike, until you're a Berserker in good standing. This happens after you're here for one year.
Sorry mate, didn't know that there were unwritten rules. newhere I promise to try to leave the black hat on the Berserker Shelf until I qualify. [cheers.gif]
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#26 Post by Dinesh Goyal » December 2nd, 2019, 6:15 pm

Ian S wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am
Juliec wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:59 am
It's easy to have a phd in problem identification. Harder to be part of the solutions crew.
Julie - a fair assessment. But identifying the problem is the first step to solving it. You can't solve people though.
Ian, looking forward to you taking the second step.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#27 Post by Mike Reff » December 3rd, 2019, 3:50 am

Dinesh Goyal wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 6:15 pm
Ian S wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am
Juliec wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:59 am
It's easy to have a phd in problem identification. Harder to be part of the solutions crew.
Julie - a fair assessment. But identifying the problem is the first step to solving it. You can't solve people though.
Ian, looking forward to you taking the second step.
Those in glass houses....Nice move Dinesh

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#28 Post by Ian S » December 3rd, 2019, 12:57 pm

Mike Reff wrote:
December 3rd, 2019, 3:50 am

Those in glass houses....Nice move Dinesh
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#29 Post by Victor Hong » December 4th, 2019, 6:34 am

Will each Noo Yawk offline planner now be called the referee?
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#30 Post by cjsavino » December 6th, 2019, 6:38 pm

Any curmudgeons going to the zachys auction tomorrow?

Mostly free lunch if you decide not to bid
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#31 Post by Jonathan Sirot » December 9th, 2019, 7:55 am

J a y H a c k wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:51 am
Ian S wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 8:43 am
Thread Posted a month or so in advance:
"NYC offline at XXXXX on XXXXX"

Immediate Responses:
"Put me down for this!"
"I'll attend"
"Sounds great! Add me to the list."
etc. etc. etc. for about a dozen and a half members

As we get closer to the event:
"Can't make it."
"Something came up."
"I have to bow out."
etc. etc. etc for about a third of the members who responded that the would attend

Day before the event, a post by the host:
"Two last minute cancellations - who wants in?"

Night of the event:
2 or 3 more no-shows

[head-bang.gif]

Can't for the life of me figure out why nobody wants to schedule / organize these NYC dinners anymore. rolleyes [pwn.gif] neener
You just need street cred as an organizer! After a while, you get to know who are the regular no shows. I'm going to do one once the calendar turns and we'll see what happens. "Red Meat With Big Red Wines." I will bring some big red wine that I not longer buy because they sold out to "The Man." Schrader or Outpost True. Wines from the Loire will be prohibited, so maybe that will be an enticement. [stirthepothal.gif]
Well I think it's time for me to pipe in even though I was hesitant to at first as perhaps someone gives me hell. I do know this situation very well as I am the organizer of the Wu's event last week that many here have discussed. Although many in the NY crowd know me and a bunch in Ct. for anyone who doesn't I certainly have plenty of "street cred" I have arranged over 4 dozen in Ct including my current bi monthly group. I also have done some traveling for offlines in Philly and for a blowout weekend last month in Charleston. So I can safely say that I have a broad picture of offline attendance drop ins dropouts etc, and HOW WAITING LISTS usually work.

Firstly this last gig I arranged at Wu's I did have an awesome time great conversation food and wines. I by means regret the over 6 hours ride by train and lyft. BUT I will also say that arranging this event turned into a cl*ster f*ck ! Let's see almost instantly fills up with 10 folks which was my max. Not my first rodeo so of course I start a waitlist. Then over the next week 4 folks jump on waitlist. Then a dropout for I have no clue why but that's fine as he gave notice and there were folks in cue. Then of course when I contact 1st person on waitlist way before the event they had changed their mind ! Next person up happily took a spot and we figured out a wine he wished to share. Then a day before this person who jumped in jumped out. Next up person who is well known here who was on the list tried 3 times to reach before he said he couldn't make . I realize health problems trump all things but have no idea why I never received a note or email supposedly sent. Maybe my email screwed up but I doubt it. The last two dropouts had nothing to do with people but mother nature. It would have been very dangerous for my buddy and his wife to drive up from S Jersey. So y:

10 attendees all with declared wines good to go. and 4 on waitlist. { Not a single waitlist member ended up attending, one had a very valid medical reason the others ???}

FINAL TALLY 5

My other much less fluid experience with the NY gang was at an offline I arranged for many years where we enjoyed some great bottles. Most years went fine but last event there were 2 folks who were late way beyond the typical 15-20 minutes that are common. Becoming very worried called both of them. One had told me there was enormous traffic so he couldn't attend. Why couldn't he have called ? And when is there not heavy traffic late afternoon/ early evening. The 2nd person said I cannot attend its a religious holiday. Hello ?? They has already taken a spot declared their wine etc. I think the religious calendar is printed at the beginning to the. Even if its the day before some folks just don't remember to call.

This phenomenon is more prevalent in the NY crowd than any other of the probably 80 offlines I arranged or attended. It is more work and frustration and 7 hours of travel time to attend one. However I do enjoy attending these NY gigs have a great new crowd in my new group. Ny events are more stressful in planning and more time consuming by far, I take it in stride and am fine with it. If I can do fine in the high stress world of sales this is child's play. I am going to change my rules about waitlists at my future gigs. It was ludicrous that all 4 of the waitlist folks did not join us. From this point forward anyone on the waitlist who does not contact me within 24 hours before the event to remove themselves from list would rather not include in future gigs. That's fine if a few people think I am mean but I have tp protect myself a bit from when a offline arrangement with a few changes to a three ring surface. Anyone who has attended the last two dinners most with the same crowd, your communication has been great. If future events are as crazy as this last one I will make it a closed group of our original 8 people and allow them to bring guests they know well. Hope next dinner goes fine as I prefer to keep an open door policy. If any New Yorkers think my critique is harsh too bad. I enjoy seeing most of you but I have spoken my mind and certainly most of you are not shy about speaking your mind. Good thing about folks around the city they aren't shy to speak up !

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#32 Post by Mike Grammer » December 9th, 2019, 9:50 am

For myself, Jonathan, I am happy you felt like you could step up and post this commentary. It *is* hard to herd cats at any OL. Here in Toronto, it's a bit of a conundrum for me just now. Thanks to a couple of disassociated threads, I'm now aware of many more WBers that are here than I realized. I have tried sporadically to reach out to some of them and will continue to do so to try to put together an OL and expand my "known community". But I also have a core group that I know with nearly 100% certainty that if they commit to a dinner, they will be there or, at very least, will give as much notice as they can of a change in plans. That is a good thing to have.

Maybe in NYC, you just need the right visitor [grin.gif] The Mike on Tour events have always been nicely attended ;)

Back to seriously? If you are the organizer, you more or less get to make the rules, I would say.

Salud and see you in a couple months (not in NYC of course---that will hopefully be near the end of the summer).

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#33 Post by Michel Abood » December 9th, 2019, 10:07 am

J a y H a c k wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 8:28 am
Where have all the big New York City Offlines disappeared to, you ask? Well, let's see. Abooboo left town. Then Leo left town. I got old and I have enough wine dinners without having to figure out a way to meet all the rest of you. Mark whose last name I forget (Franks? of the Lugeresque dinners) got tired of herding cats. Time for some of you young whipper snappers to step up.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
OK Boomer. neener

As Gregory said, I miss that aspect of the city. Living here in San Diego people drink, for the most part, stuff I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy (even you wouldn't like it Jay). [snort.gif] Plus I hate having to take a car everywhere (I have discovered that I HATE car culture and actually miss mass transit - I know, shocking). I will say that when I lived in NYC I prefered smaller, more intimate gatherings around themes, and most importantly, friends.

I miss NYC. [cray.gif]
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#34 Post by Ian S » December 9th, 2019, 10:19 am

Wow, now that's how to curmudgeon! Thoroughly enjoyed your post Jonathan. Despite being cheesed off, you still got your point across. One can only hope the entire group you're targeting takes it as constructive. Being who they are, it's doubtful and they probably will get shirty with you for calling them out. Like you said, who cares if they do? As Mike points out it certainly needed to be said.

Maybe you should stick to the more friendly areas to organize these offlines. Hopefully the small group of dedicated and friendly NYC members won't mind traveling. Rare group, they are!
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#35 Post by Dan Hammer » December 9th, 2019, 12:55 pm

Mike Grammer wrote:
December 9th, 2019, 9:50 am


Maybe in NYC, you just need the right visitor [grin.gif] The Mike on Tour events have always been nicely attended ;)

Mike
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#36 Post by Steve L Gellman » December 9th, 2019, 1:05 pm

J a y H a c k wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 8:28 am
Where have all the big New York City Offlines disappeared to, you ask? Well, let's see. Abooboo left town. Then Leo left town. I got old and I have enough wine dinners without having to figure out a way to meet all the rest of you. Mark whose last name I forget (Franks? of the Lugeresque dinners) got tired of herding cats. Time for some of you young whipper snappers to step up.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
It was Mark Franks. Those “Luger” offlines were fun

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#37 Post by Jay Miller » December 9th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Steve L Gellman wrote:
December 9th, 2019, 1:05 pm
J a y H a c k wrote:
August 22nd, 2019, 8:28 am
Where have all the big New York City Offlines disappeared to, you ask? Well, let's see. Abooboo left town. Then Leo left town. I got old and I have enough wine dinners without having to figure out a way to meet all the rest of you. Mark whose last name I forget (Franks? of the Lugeresque dinners) got tired of herding cats. Time for some of you young whipper snappers to step up.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
It was Mark Franks. Those “Luger” offlines were fun
He did a fantastic job with those. Some very fond memories.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#38 Post by Mike Grammer » December 9th, 2019, 2:19 pm

Dan Hammer wrote:
December 9th, 2019, 12:55 pm
Mike Grammer wrote:
December 9th, 2019, 9:50 am


Maybe in NYC, you just need the right visitor [grin.gif] The Mike on Tour events have always been nicely attended ;)

Mike
So noted. My calendar is clear in July, with the exception of one particular weekend. [wink.gif]
End of August, Dan--around US Open time :)
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#39 Post by Mike Reff » December 9th, 2019, 3:43 pm

[rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif] [rofl.gif]

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#40 Post by mike pobega » December 10th, 2019, 5:39 pm

Lots of work. Changing attitudes of restaurateurs. Indifference to scheduling issues from some attendees.
Much has changed in the years since I started my group (2004). I have met some amazing people and made some new friends, but (early on) I also met a very few that I would not want to share a sidewalk with; those few sure can become a buzzkill. lol
I wish I had the time and energy to continue on. I so much prefer smaller more intimate groups these days.
I realized nothing can stay pleasantly pleasing forever and am glad I went out on the highest note I could achieve. I have never seen anything come close to even matching what the small dedicated and fun loving CLONYC group has experienced. 52 dinners of hot winemakers, great food and many laughs For the most part I was able to maintain one of my very first tenets of keeping it fun and convivial and avoid the snobs and wind-bags. Great times for sure.
I constantly watch this section of the forum but nothing has garnered my attention... yet. Dan, the DiFars thing is a blast. You sir have kept my attention and for that I thank you. Dedication is never really appreciated, if only by a few...
Cheers!

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#41 Post by Jonathan Sirot » December 10th, 2019, 11:19 pm

Well Mike I appreciate your feedback and agree with much of what you state. It is difficult arranging offlines in NYC especially often the communication is poor people changing minds and no shows. You did have quite a nice group but it was not really as amazing an achievement as you claim in my opinion. Firstly your theme for a long time was CLONYC and I did attend a few and yes you did enjoy most of the best cabs available. The camaraderie was great and food was always good. You may have done other themes but then I think you moved onto Pinots which is another animal and equally great. Fortunately in the city through the years you had developed some close wine friends. Most of your events were usually full and they were not always posted unless someone couldn't make it.

I have to take a bit of exception when you state that nothing can match the experiences that your group experienced ! How can you say that when you have not recently attended any of the last 3 high end wine dinners that I arranged and travelled 7 hours to attend and had an absolute blast at. Perhaps you don't like old world wines if you do then none of your events I have attended have come close to some of the wines I have experienced at my recent events in the city. Lets see at PDH we drank:

08 Dom+ 04 HSS brought by me
04 Gaja Sperss
97 Anne Gros Clos Vougeot le Grand Maupertui
1982 Diamond Creek red Rock Terrace
2012 Faiveley Corton Charlemagne
Selosse Substance Blanc de Blancs
2003 Beaucastel

Then lets see if you only like new world which is a bit limiting but fine, there was a Harlan Vertical including both the first label and the maiden and we probably had at least 6 vintages. I don't think you hosted that one or the Blind Cultiwine shootout or Steve Gelmans dinner at Per Se years ago with the half dozen best cults including Screagle Bryant Colgin etc

By the way between the 8 of us we had superb conversation great food and awesome wines and the service was impeccable

Lastly its great to have winemakers I have had a few attend my events but ultimately its about the fellowship and the wines. NONE of your events that you have ever held I would SERIOUSLY DOUBT you have ever attended or certainly ever arranged an event or sampled as many epiphany wines in one weekend as the Charleston Offlinorama that was held by board member Scott Brunson in Charlotte SC last month. if you have ever arranged a crazy weekend like that you certainly didn't advertise it Unless you had some secret after parties serving Pappy 23 I doubt anything you have held has come close. I knew exactly 2 people form the gang beforehand. no pretentiousness or even folks dressing up formally.

I am working harder to arrange these then you did and probably no New Yorker on this board will do what I am currently. Would you on a pretty much every 6 week basis arrange a dinner involving 6 hours of travel and 3 or 4 at he event and travel first by car then by train AND then by subway or Lyft. Also spend time researching restaurants I have not seen a single New Yorker do this to my Ct events except when I held bottle of pain events at Wilton. But these were much closer to the city than my haul living in the middle of CT. However three of 4 of my dinners have been attended by folks from Boston. 2 of my group come up every 2nd month from S Jersey.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#42 Post by mike pobega » December 11th, 2019, 2:06 am

What a dickhead post. This is why I spend less time here and certainly would never attend one of your dinners.
If all I wanted to do was drink labels, I could have did that anytime. I wanted structure and more of a theme than a hodgepodge lineup of $300+ bottles.
Your listed lineup does not move me. I guess my group really was amazing and you are right, it was closed for the most part. Try doing 44 dinners with a few of the same people. It's no wonder people never wanted to drop out.
You really did not appreciate my feedback, you actually too it personally. Why? Who knows, but let me not get so defensive. My resume speaks for itself. I just could not let your BS post go unchecked. You disappoint me, but I am a New Yorker, so disappointment is a daily occurance.

Have a blast with your awesomeness.

I won't respond here any further. [cheers.gif]


www.clonyc.com
Jonathan Sirot wrote:
December 10th, 2019, 11:19 pm
Well Mike I appreciate your feedback and agree with much of what you state. It is difficult arranging offlines in NYC especially often the communication is poor people changing minds and no shows. You did have quite a nice group but it was not really as amazing an achievement as you claim in my opinion. Firstly your theme for a long time was CLONYC and I did attend a few and yes you did enjoy most of the best cabs available. The camaraderie was great and food was always good. You may have done other themes but then I think you moved onto Pinots which is another animal and equally great. Fortunately in the city through the years you had developed some close wine friends. Most of your events were usually full and they were not always posted unless someone couldn't make it.

I have to take a bit of exception when you state that nothing can match the experiences that your group experienced ! How can you say that when you have not recently attended any of the last 3 high end wine dinners that I arranged and travelled 7 hours to attend and had an absolute blast at. Perhaps you don't like old world wines if you do then none of your events I have attended have come close to some of the wines I have experienced at my recent events in the city. Lets see at PDH we drank:

08 Dom+ 04 HSS brought by me
04 Gaja Sperss
97 Anne Gros Clos Vougeot le Grand Maupertui
1982 Diamond Creek red Rock Terrace
2012 Faiveley Corton Charlemagne
Selosse Substance Blanc de Blancs
2003 Beaucastel

Then lets see if you only like new world which is a bit limiting but fine, there was a Harlan Vertical including both the first label and the maiden and we probably had at least 6 vintages. I don't think you hosted that one or the Blind Cultiwine shootout or Steve Gelmans dinner at Per Se years ago with the half dozen best cults including Screagle Bryant Colgin etc

By the way between the 8 of us we had superb conversation great food and awesome wines and the service was impeccable

Lastly its great to have winemakers I have had a few attend my events but ultimately its about the fellowship and the wines. NONE of your events that you have ever held I would SERIOUSLY DOUBT you have ever attended or certainly ever arranged an event or sampled as many epiphany wines in one weekend as the Charleston Offlinorama that was held by board member Scott Brunson in Charlotte SC last month. if you have ever arranged a crazy weekend like that you certainly didn't advertise it Unless you had some secret after parties serving Pappy 23 I doubt anything you have held has come close. I knew exactly 2 people form the gang beforehand. no pretentiousness or even folks dressing up formally.

I am working harder to arrange these then you did and probably no New Yorker on this board will do what I am currently. Would you on a pretty much every 6 week basis arrange a dinner involving 6 hours of travel and 3 or 4 at he event and travel first by car then by train AND then by subway or Lyft. Also spend time researching restaurants I have not seen a single New Yorker do this to my Ct events except when I held bottle of pain events at Wilton. But these were much closer to the city than my haul living in the middle of CT. However three of 4 of my dinners have been attended by folks from Boston. 2 of my group come up every 2nd month from S Jersey.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#43 Post by Ian S » December 11th, 2019, 4:50 am

mike pobega wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 2:06 am
What a dickhead post.
If you make a post tooting your own horn for your self-proclaimed offline prowess, you should expect such replies.
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#44 Post by Steve L Gellman » December 11th, 2019, 5:20 am

Ian S wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 4:50 am
mike pobega wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 2:06 am
What a dickhead post.
If you make a post tooting your own horn for your self-proclaimed offline prowess, you should expect such replies.
I don’t get that from Mike’s post. Just relaying his positive experiences hosting and being part of some great wine dinners. The CLONYC dinners were memorable !
Last edited by Steve L Gellman on December 11th, 2019, 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#45 Post by Jonathan Sirot » December 11th, 2019, 6:26 am

Mike I said MANY GOOD THINGS about your events and your ability to run offlines is to be commended. I stated that and elaborated on it.

Your exact words " I have never seen anything come close to even matching what the small dedicated and fun loving CLONYC group has experienced.

Every single dinner I have arranged in the last 20 years has had great people 3 or 4 hours fly by and almost all have came back many times some for years. So maybe you have never seen anything come close because perhaps you have never attended too many offlines from passionate hard working offline arrangers. If all of the great wines I enjoyed are all just labels then why did Leo and all his friends who drank some of the finest wines in the world not get designated as such. I have experienced many old world wines that are famous names and deservedly so. If you think that people pay a lot of money for Chave or Pignan or Shafer Hillside Select are stupid then you are missing out on some amazing unique wines.


BUT for you to say that nobodys offlines can match yours is an AWFULLY SMUG and arrogant statement and you have never in the past ever attended any of mine or alot of the other events. TO say nothing compare to yours is a delusion of grandeur,

I have arranged probably 60 in my life and they were all great some WITH THEME and SOME WITHOUT You went on the attack calling me a dickhead. You wouldn't say that to my face big man on campus. Now go enjoy your wines I will carry on with my group and anyone on this group who thinks your belligerent response is warranted and wants to hate me or not attend my events ever that is fine I make new wine friends all the time. I have several friends in the city who love to drink some of the worlds better wines. When you drink a Fairchild or a MacDonald or a Ridge Monte Bello or any cab that is expensive and well known aren't you drinking labels.
Have a nice life ! I won't even lower myself to call you some of the childish names like dickhead you called me how damn childish for a man almost 60 years old.

If you have anything else to say just keep it to yourself. Anyone form the New York crowd who feels Mikes attack on me is fine for taking exception to the fact that his offlines were the best any where fine hate me. I don't give a crap and I certainly am not going to lay down and be intimidated by ANY New Yorker. Many of you are great folks and a blast to be around anyone who doesn't like my attitude or my events don't attend but don't bother on the attacks, I did not provoke it and do not deserve it. For some reason only in the NY thread here is there so much fighting and even on my event thread was a squabble between two folks not even attending who had to be told by Charlie to give it a rest.

So Mike play armchair quarterback all you want when you don't even arrange them any more Yes you were the best ever I admit it but now you are burned out and tired and I am still kicking like the Energizer Bunny. If my core new group stays loyal great I don't need mass approval. if it dissolves which I doubt I will give up on New York quite gladly and carry on with my Ct group By the way two of whom trek up from S Jersey. Because of the wine ? No Because of the fellowship !!Now tonight to forget all of this crap I think I will chase a label like I usually do and open a bottle of 08 Dom. Amazing how people pay all that money for a name ??!!

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#46 Post by Jonathan Sirot » December 11th, 2019, 7:21 am

Steve L Gellman wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 5:20 am
Ian S wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 4:50 am
mike pobega wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 2:06 am
What a dickhead post.
If you make a post tooting your own horn for your self-proclaimed offline prowess, you should expect such replies.
I don’t get that from Mike’s post. Just relaying his positive experiences hosting and being part of some great wine dinners. The CLONYC dinners were memorable !
Steve whether you wish to mention it or not, you must have felt mine were pretty memorable also as you and TJ attended many traveled far to get here and we shared some great wines food and conversation. I also thoroughly enjoyed the events you arranged. Your generosity at Per Se will always be remembered as well as the totally exotic food. Back then the restaurant was on their A game !

I knew when I posted that somebody from the local crowd would attack me even though I discussed both negative and positive aspects. It seems many in the local crowd can dish it out but cant take it. If anyone sees my point great if not and anyone else wants to attack go have at it.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#47 Post by Dan Hammer » December 11th, 2019, 7:50 am

mike pobega wrote:
December 10th, 2019, 5:39 pm
Lots of work. Changing attitudes of restaurateurs. Indifference to scheduling issues from some attendees.
Much has changed in the years since I started my group (2004). I have met some amazing people and made some new friends, but (early on) I also met a very few that I would not want to share a sidewalk with; those few sure can become a buzzkill. lol
I wish I had the time and energy to continue on. I so much prefer smaller more intimate groups these days.
I realized nothing can stay pleasantly pleasing forever and am glad I went out on the highest note I could achieve. I have never seen anything come close to even matching what the small dedicated and fun loving CLONYC group has experienced. 52 dinners of hot winemakers, great food and many laughs For the most part I was able to maintain one of my very first tenets of keeping it fun and convivial and avoid the snobs and wind-bags. Great times for sure.
I constantly watch this section of the forum but nothing has garnered my attention... yet. Dan, the DiFars thing is a blast. You sir have kept my attention and for that I thank you. Dedication is never really appreciated, if only by a few...
Cheers!
I had the pleasure of attending 3 or 4 of these dinners over the years. Always a fun time. As for Di Fara's, thank you for the kind words. I'll save you a place at the next one on Fat Tuesday.

Since I'm not a fan of drama... I'm going to control the list for the upcoming event.

Dan
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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#48 Post by Jonathan Sirot » December 11th, 2019, 8:15 am

Dan,
I assume you referring to me for defending myself against the attack on me. If calling me a dickhead and accusing me of drinking labels is fine than it looks like you concur with Mr Pobega, whom I had been friends with for a dozen years. Really classy and if you like his response than I really have no interest in attending. I would feel sad if I was unable to attend. I know and like around two thirds of the usual gang. I have always enjoyed your events and hope that because you are friends with Mike that you don't exclude me for simply a tiff that was unprovoked. I have never caused any drama at any offline I have ever attended and certainly wish I had never posted on this thread although I felt compelled to as my Wu's event although enjoyable was a planning mess and some of it was the peoples fault. But if that happens I cant help it and there are a ton of other events I plan and attend all over, but your DiFara event is a great party. But very simple answer if Indeed I am banned is simply do my own event at Pepes which has a valid claim to being the best in the country. DiFaras is in the same league but certainly not better especially the white clam at Pepes
Last edited by Jonathan Sirot on December 11th, 2019, 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#49 Post by Paul Jaouen » December 11th, 2019, 8:49 am

Not sure about Jay's question on where NYC offlines have disappeared to comes from. I probably go to two or three a month but I know some folks who average more like two a week.

I feel Jonathan's pain. Organizing can be a pain in the ass with last minute cancellations. I think once you have pretty much a core group, it becomes a lot easier but there will always be last minute business trips or health stuff that comes up. One of my monthly dinners is with my Bordeaux group. Core group is 11 and we usually get 7-9 every month. The organizer sends out a doodle with a bunch of dates on it for the following month. Date with most yeses that people can make becomes the winning date. While we drink a lot of Bordeaux, we also do other stuff. 10 people showed up this past Monday for 89 and 99 Barolo dinner.
Best,
Paul Jaouen

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Re: The New York City offline curmudgeon thread

#50 Post by Mike Reff » December 11th, 2019, 8:50 am

Jonathan,
Things happen when these offlines are presented, it sounds like you get visibly upset when you post an offline, someone responds and then you get annoyed when they cannot attend because any number of things might arise ( an ill relative, a child needing attention, etc). Your attitude could be precisely why you might have difficulty grabbing some people.

Suffice it to say, you post an offline, you mention a price point, and/or theme. For those who can make it great, and if they cannot, you seem to want some type of explanation as to why they cannot attend, such is life.

Deal with it and move on!

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