TN fun: what variety is this?

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Brandon R
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TN fun: what variety is this?

#1 Post by Brandon R » November 7th, 2019, 1:38 pm

If you were to read the below (professional) tasting note, from what variety would you assume the wine was made?

Rich and full of dense, concentrated dark plum, black currant, olive and dried savory herb flavors, featuring pencil shaving and cast iron notes. The pure-tasting finished is filled with baker's chocolate accents. Better than previously reviewed. Drink now through 2025. 5,500 cases made.

I've never had the wine nor any wine from this producer, so this isn't a slam. It's just not what I would think if I was purely thinking about traits for Pinot Noir, which it is. From where? Sonoma Coast, CA. The TN sounds like a tasty Cabernet to me!
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#2 Post by Todd F r e n c h » November 7th, 2019, 1:42 pm

I was going to guess Cabernet as well but you gave away the answer!
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#3 Post by Hank Victor » November 7th, 2019, 1:46 pm

92 points Wilfred Wong.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#4 Post by Michae1 P0wers » November 7th, 2019, 7:05 pm

Brandon R wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 1:38 pm
If you were to read the below (professional) tasting note, from what variety would you assume the wine was made?

Rich and full of dense, concentrated dark plum, black currant, olive and dried savory herb flavors, featuring pencil shaving and cast iron notes. The pure-tasting finished is filled with baker's chocolate accents. Better than previously reviewed. Drink now through 2025. 5,500 cases made.

I've never had the wine nor any wine from this producer, so this isn't a slam. It's just not what I would think if I was purely thinking about traits for Pinot Noir, which it is. From where? Sonoma Coast, CA. The TN sounds like a tasty Cabernet to me!
I would hope to find exactly 0 of those flavors in my Pinot Noir.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#5 Post by GregT » November 7th, 2019, 7:23 pm

Was this a Lisa note? The cast iron pan is a thing of hers.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#6 Post by Brian G r a f s t r o m » November 8th, 2019, 1:02 am

Would have guessed Cab Franc
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#7 Post by Otto Forsberg » November 8th, 2019, 3:30 am

Would've guessed a very ripe Syrah - and not a particularly attractive one for such. However, for a Pinot Noir tasting note, that's an express ticket to Nopesville.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#8 Post by Gary Schulte » November 8th, 2019, 4:44 am

Sounds like an 80's Ridge Monte Bello to me. CS based wine.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#9 Post by Victor Hong » November 8th, 2019, 6:25 am

Brandon R wrote:
November 7th, 2019, 1:38 pm
If you were to read the below (professional) tasting note, from what variety would you assume the wine was made?

Rich and full of dense, concentrated dark plum, black currant, olive and dried savory herb flavors, featuring pencil shaving and cast iron notes. The pure-tasting finished is filled with baker's chocolate accents. Better than previously reviewed. Drink now through 2025. 5,500 cases made.

I've never had the wine nor any wine from this producer, so this isn't a slam. It's just not what I would think if I was purely thinking about traits for Pinot Noir, which it is. From where? Sonoma Coast, CA. The TN sounds like a tasty Cabernet to me!
Walt La Brisa Pinot Noir 2017
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#10 Post by David Glasser » November 8th, 2019, 8:08 am

I would have guessed Syrah/N. Rhône.

Thought this thread was going to be a critique of the note, not the wine. Reminded me of the time in the 90s our group did a blind tasting trying to match the wine to the Wine Spectator tasting notes. No one got more than 1/3 right.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#11 Post by Victor Hong » November 8th, 2019, 8:25 am

David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 8:08 am
I would have guessed Syrah/N. Rhône.

Thought this thread was going to be a critique of the note, not the wine. Reminded me of the time in the 90s our group did a blind tasting trying to match the wine to the Wine Spectator tasting notes. No one got more than 1/3 right.
Maybe, WS got 2/3 wrong.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#12 Post by David Glasser » November 8th, 2019, 8:29 am

Victor Hong wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 8:25 am
David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 8:08 am
I would have guessed Syrah/N. Rhône.

Thought this thread was going to be a critique of the note, not the wine. Reminded me of the time in the 90s our group did a blind tasting trying to match the wine to the Wine Spectator tasting notes. No one got more than 1/3 right.
Maybe, WS got 2/3 wrong.
That was our impression at the time. Granted, different bottles and timing, but some of the reveals had us literally laughing out loud.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#13 Post by Gabe Berk » November 8th, 2019, 8:36 am

Syrah or Cabernet. Odd descriptive notes for a Pinot Noir.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#14 Post by Victor Hong » November 8th, 2019, 9:04 am

David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 8:29 am
Victor Hong wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 8:25 am
David Glasser wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 8:08 am
I would have guessed Syrah/N. Rhône.

Thought this thread was going to be a critique of the note, not the wine. Reminded me of the time in the 90s our group did a blind tasting trying to match the wine to the Wine Spectator tasting notes. No one got more than 1/3 right.
Maybe, WS got 2/3 wrong.
That was our impression at the time. Granted, different bottles and timing, but some of the reveals had us literally laughing out loud.
If all you attendees had bought more advertising space in WS, the scores would have made perfect sense. [snort.gif]
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#15 Post by Anton D » November 8th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 1:02 am
Would have guessed Cab Franc
I think same for me.

Certainly would have never guessed pinot noir!
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#16 Post by Victor Hong » November 8th, 2019, 1:16 pm

Anton D wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 12:04 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 1:02 am
Would have guessed Cab Franc
I think same for me.

Certainly would have never guessed pinot noir!
You should have Googled it. [wow.gif]
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#17 Post by T. Williams » November 8th, 2019, 1:36 pm

Syrah based on the olive note. Cabernet based on the pencil shavings.

Sounds like a monstrosity if it is Pinot.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#18 Post by mark rudner » November 8th, 2019, 1:42 pm

sounds like a cab/syrah blend

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#19 Post by Anton D » November 8th, 2019, 1:50 pm

Victor Hong wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 1:16 pm
Anton D wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 12:04 pm
Brian G r a f s t r o m wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 1:02 am
Would have guessed Cab Franc
I think same for me.

Certainly would have never guessed pinot noir!
You should have Googled it. [wow.gif]
Why?

Did you Googling it add to your experience, or just give you a chance to toss out a "correct" answer?

I think the conversation and comparing notes is the good part. [cheers.gif]
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#20 Post by Wes Barton » November 8th, 2019, 4:45 pm

I was leaning towards Syrah. Bet it's got some, and a good deal of stem inclusion.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#21 Post by Anton D » November 8th, 2019, 5:02 pm

Wes Barton wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 4:45 pm
I was leaning towards Syrah. Bet it's got some, and a good deal of stem inclusion.
I bet you are right.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#22 Post by T Welch » November 8th, 2019, 6:48 pm

I just want to thank the original poster for using variety, instead of varietal, in his subject line. [cheers.gif]
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#23 Post by Brandon R » November 11th, 2019, 11:08 am

T Welch wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 6:48 pm
I just want to thank the original poster for using variety, instead of varietal, in his subject line. [cheers.gif]
[highfive.gif]
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#24 Post by Eric Lundblad » November 11th, 2019, 11:30 am

93 points from Wine Spectator.

Walt's tasting note: Rose petal, red fruit/raspberry, cola, soil/tobacco, oak & minerals.

Sounds more like a Pinot, esp a RRV Pinot, than WS's note. Wonder which one is closer to reality.
Wes Barton wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 4:45 pm
I was leaning towards Syrah. Bet it's got some, and a good deal of stem inclusion.
I'd bet not...why would any PN producer add syrah these days, in this market? They could have used Mariafeld (clone 23) tho, which has the reputation of being the PN clone that comes the closest to syrah. And, 2017 had that nasty heat wave, which could easily encourage WS's version
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#25 Post by Anton D » November 11th, 2019, 11:45 am

Brandon R wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 11:08 am
T Welch wrote:
November 8th, 2019, 6:48 pm
I just want to thank the original poster for using variety, instead of varietal, in his subject line. [cheers.gif]
[highfive.gif]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varietal

Or....


va·ri·e·tal
/vəˈrīədl/

adjective
adjective: varietal

1.
(of a wine or grape) made from or belonging to a single specified variety of grape.
2.
Botany•Zoology
relating to, characteristic of, or forming a variety.
"varietal names"

noun
noun: varietal; plural noun: varietals

a varietal wine or grape.

____

[cheers.gif]

Which is all good by me, I get bothered by someone saying something they did was funner than something else. Although, converting adjectives to nouns is pretty fun, just not the funnest.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#26 Post by Brandon R » November 11th, 2019, 12:44 pm

Haha...I absolutely KNEW someone was going to point that out, Anton. I was corrected (here, I think) when I asserted that using, "varietal" when describing a single type of grape was incorrect, as it was only supposed to be used as a noun. As soon as I posted the high five above, it was only a matter of time.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#27 Post by David Glasser » November 11th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Brandon R wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 12:44 pm
Haha...I absolutely KNEW someone was going to point that out, Anton. I was corrected (here, I think) when I asserted that using, "varietal" when describing a single type of grape was incorrect, as it was only supposed to be used as a noun. As soon as I posted the high five above, it was only a matter of time.
LOL, if we’re going down that rabbit hole...
There appear to be a variety of ways in which the word is used.
I would never say there are a varietal of ways in which it is used.
[cheers.gif]
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#28 Post by T Welch » November 11th, 2019, 3:26 pm

Does anybody talk or write about varietals of apples, peaches, oranges, etc.?
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#29 Post by Eric Lundblad » November 11th, 2019, 3:56 pm

The thing with being bothered about variety vs varietal is they aren't either one. They're cultivars (the variety is Vitus Vinifera).

No one uses varietal for apples/etc because varietal became a noun (from an Adj.) from varietal wine. And hey...if we aren't allowed to turn adjectives into nouns willy nilly, wouldn't we still be in the stone age?
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#30 Post by David Glasser » November 11th, 2019, 5:59 pm

Eric, thank you for gifting us with that explanation.

If adjectives can become nouns and nouns can become verbs, when someone gifts me a bottle of Cabernet, have I been varietaled? Cultivared?

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#31 Post by T Welch » November 11th, 2019, 6:57 pm

So, cultivarieties or cultivarietals? I'm so confused.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#32 Post by Mike Evans » November 12th, 2019, 6:20 am

Eric Lundblad wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 3:56 pm
The thing with being bothered about variety vs varietal is they aren't either one. They're cultivars (the variety is Vitus Vinifera).

No one uses varietal for apples/etc because varietal became a noun (from an Adj.) from varietal wine. And hey...if we aren't allowed to turn adjectives into nouns willy nilly, wouldn't we still be in the stone age?
Vitis vinifera is the species, not the variety. “Variety” is used as a synonym for cultivars in some settings, but even in nomenclature systems that don’t use it as a synonym for cultivar it always seems to be a taxon below species.

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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#33 Post by Eric Lundblad » November 12th, 2019, 7:17 am

Mike Evans wrote:
November 12th, 2019, 6:20 am

Vitis vinifera is the species, not the variety. “Variety” is used as a synonym for cultivars in some settings, but even in nomenclature systems that don’t use it as a synonym for cultivar it always seems to be a taxon below species.
Huh, can't remember where I 'learned' the above, but you're right...thanks.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#34 Post by John Morris » November 12th, 2019, 7:43 am

Eric Lundblad wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 11:30 am
They could have used Mariafeld (clone 23) tho, which has the reputation of being the PN clone that comes the closest to syrah.
Is that a feature or a bug?

I like both varieties [<-- N.B., I'm trying to steer clear of the grammar police], I don't want either to taste like the other.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#35 Post by Eric Lundblad » November 12th, 2019, 9:34 am

John Morris wrote:
November 12th, 2019, 7:43 am
Eric Lundblad wrote:
November 11th, 2019, 11:30 am
They could have used Mariafeld (clone 23) tho, which has the reputation of being the PN clone that comes the closest to syrah.
Is that a feature or a bug?

I like both varieties [<-- N.B., I'm trying to steer clear of the grammar police], I don't want either to taste like the other.
My comment did clone 23 a disservice...it only tastes like syrah when it's grown in a place that's too warm for it's liking. If you do, it becomes darker, more dense...more syrah. If it's cool enough, it can be an excellent very pinot like wine. I worked with 23 for a bit from a Sonoma Coast vineyard (actually on the coast, not the inland areas). My first year working with it was 2011 (along with clones 2A, 9 & Pommard...on their own roots). 2011 being an epic cold vintage, I picked in mid october, prior to the rains...the fruit was not quite 21 brix. The latter three clones all had interesting things to offer, tho all on the lean side. The 23 otoh seemed like it was picked at what I'd consider to be mid-ripe red fruited flavors. Together, they made a quite interesting wine that would have been a lot less interesting without the 23. If 23 was syrah like even in that year, it would have completely clobbered the other three clones and I would have had to keep it out of the blend. Later I discovered it's true CA colors and moved on.

I guess it's not surprising that clone 23 came from Switzerland, not Burgundy (I'm assuming that Switzerland colder than Burgundy, it has when I've been there but...).

With all the regions looking for "climate change friendly" varieties/clones...looks like clone 23 won't make that list.

Side note on "completely clobbered": My first year making pinot, I got fruit from Sebastopol (a very pinot like wine), and from Gaps Crown (petaluma gap, a big bruiser wine). I did some trials, with a few friends, to see what a blend of the two would be like. 50/50% tassted the same as 100% Gaps Crown. 25% GC & 75% Sebastopol was all GC again. So was 10% GC & 90% Sebastopol (tho it was a bit more dilute, no Sebastopol character survived). It was only when I got to 5% GC that some Sebastopol character emerged...tho it was still was heavy handed on GC. And it's not like the Sebastopol wine was thin/dilute/etc...in fact it became one of my favorite Pinots, and was why I continued this sometimes insane path :). Anyways, I abandoned the blending idea, but had a better appreciation of the extreme differences that Pinot can show.
Last edited by Eric Lundblad on November 12th, 2019, 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#36 Post by John Morris » November 12th, 2019, 9:49 am

Thanks for the explanation.

I'm in a brown-bag group where people bring whatever they like. Over the years there, I've had more than my share of pinots there that were mistaken for syrahs (all big, dark wines), but I have no idea of the clones.
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Re: TN fun: what variety is this?

#37 Post by S. Rash » November 12th, 2019, 11:27 am

I would have said a red blend made predominantly from Cabernet and Syrah. Fruit profile and pencil shavings leads me toward a CS, but the olive and herbs tells me Syrah.
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