US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

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Eric Ifune
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#301 Post by Eric Ifune » October 7th, 2019, 9:01 am

Ok, I’ll bite. Which Portuguese wine will replace Burgundy? Would prefer if you start a new thread though. TIA.
A new thread would be fine, but here are my recommendations to replace Burgundy.
For Red, the Dao and Barriada. Quinta de Baixo in Barriada produces wonderful fresh, lighter, aromatic reds from biodynamic 70-100+ year old vineyards. This is Niepoort's property. The wines are very akin to premier cru reds. The Lagar de Baixo and especially the Poeirinho labels from 2015 and 2016. Filipa Pato also uses biodynamic old vine Baga. Some well over 100 years old. The Nossa Calcario and Territorio Vivo from 2015 and 2016 are very fine. Filipa's father, Luis Pato produces somewhat richer wines, more akin to grand cru. His single vineyard Bagas are terrific. 2015 was a great vintage for him. His own rooted vinyards, Quinta do Ribeirinho Per Franco and Valadas Per Franco are even more a step up but are now achieving Burgundian prices. In the Dao there's Quinta da Pellada made by Alvaro Castro, one of Portugal's greatest winemakers. Carrosel is his top red. 2011 and 2012 are the latest releases. His other reds are also worth searching out. Also in the Dao is Quinta do Sobral with their Vinha da Neta tinto. 2015, 16, and 17 are all fine.
For white Burgundy, Encruzado from the Dao is the closest thing anywhere having the same texture and weight. It handles barrels just as well. Ribero Santo Carlos Lucas produces a whole range of Encruzado, all excellent. His top wine is Vinha da Neve (the snow vineyard). Both the tinto and branco are great but the branco is all old vine Encruzado. The 2017 and 2018 are fine, but the 17 is just a hair better. Sobral's Vinha da Neta branco is also old vine Encruzado and is great. Alvaro Castro's Quinta da Saes also makes a fine Encruzado. Camino Cruzados has their Titular Encruzado label.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#302 Post by Alan Rath » October 7th, 2019, 9:34 am

Michae1 P0wers wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 8:48 am
For those who are saying that Champagne, Italian wine, and Portuguese wines are not included in the tariffs, I have to wonder if that really matters. Do you expect that importers and retailers will look to offset price increases in French, German, and Spanish wines by also increasing the prices of stock from other countries? Just curious if this will be a good excuse to buy more Italian wine or if imported wine in general is going to go up in cost. For that matter even domestic wine may track upwards as retailers look to offset losses from imports.
I would think the last thing importers would do is raise prices on other wines. They'll need to sell MORE of them, raising prices isn't the way to do that.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#303 Post by Eric Lundblad » October 7th, 2019, 9:54 am

Alan Rath wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 9:34 am
Michae1 P0wers wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 8:48 am
For those who are saying that Champagne, Italian wine, and Portuguese wines are not included in the tariffs, I have to wonder if that really matters. Do you expect that importers and retailers will look to offset price increases in French, German, and Spanish wines by also increasing the prices of stock from other countries? Just curious if this will be a good excuse to buy more Italian wine or if imported wine in general is going to go up in cost. For that matter even domestic wine may track upwards as retailers look to offset losses from imports.
I would think the last thing importers would do is raise prices on other wines. They'll need to sell MORE of them, raising prices isn't the way to do that.
Importers have been known to profit on increased demand tho (which might happen with the above).
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#304 Post by AndrewH » October 7th, 2019, 9:58 am

Mike Miller wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 1:47 pm
Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 4:58 am
dennis.coronado wrote:
October 3rd, 2019, 4:19 am


This goes back 15 years over a complaint to WTO over EU subsidies to Airbus.
A couple of points. No one on this board is less of a fan of the current regime than me, but this is really not his doing. As indicated, this WTO proceeding has been pending forever (a tit-for-tat European complaint is also pending, we are almost certain to lose that one, and there will be a commensurate increase in tariffs coming back the other way next year).

Moreover, this is positively anti-Trumpian in its approach to trade. Rather than simply declaring a trade war and imposing tariffs, we (i.e., the US government) pursued the lawful process, litigated the case to its conclusion over a course of years, and got permission to levy the tariffs as damages for harm done by the responding countries.

So yeah, this may be the ONLY instance in which thanking Trump voters is misplaced.
Yes and no. The WTO case only allows us to impose a 25% tariff, it doesn't require it. A more intelligent approach, I would argue, would be to take the WTO judgment and use it as a negotiating tool, with fairly short deadlines, and demand the elimination of some tariff, or non-tariff barrier to trade imposed by the EU. Negotiate a limit to Airbus subsidies. Negotiate an opening in the EU market for U.S. agricultural products. If those concessions are not forthcoming, or insufficient, than impose the tariff. The movement should always be, where possible, toward free trade, not away from it.
Nothing in what's been done thus far prevents that. One can always back off the tariffs upon negotiation.

For better or worse, Trump's trade/tariff strategy has been to threaten to implement or actually implement and then reduce for concessions.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#305 Post by Alan Rath » October 7th, 2019, 9:59 am

It would be ironic if the sales of European wines other than France, Germany, and Spain are offset by OTHER European (or international) wines, instead of U.S. wines [wow.gif]
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#306 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 7th, 2019, 10:07 am

AndrewH wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 9:58 am
For better or worse, Trump's trade/tariff strategy has been to threaten to implement or actually implement and then reduce for concessions.
That is an incredibly charitable assessment. One might argue it's blind to the facts.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#307 Post by Nick Gangas » October 7th, 2019, 12:22 pm

Michae1 P0wers wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 8:48 am
For those who are saying that Champagne, Italian wine, and Portuguese wines are not included in the tariffs, I have to wonder if that really matters. Do you expect that importers and retailers will look to offset price increases in French, German, and Spanish wines by also increasing the prices of stock from other countries? Just curious if this will be a good excuse to buy more Italian wine or if imported wine in general is going to go up in cost. For that matter even domestic wine may track upwards as retailers look to offset losses from imports.
I'd think that those producers might object.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#308 Post by Michae1 P0wers » October 7th, 2019, 12:40 pm

Alan Rath wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 9:34 am
Michae1 P0wers wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 8:48 am
For those who are saying that Champagne, Italian wine, and Portuguese wines are not included in the tariffs, I have to wonder if that really matters. Do you expect that importers and retailers will look to offset price increases in French, German, and Spanish wines by also increasing the prices of stock from other countries? Just curious if this will be a good excuse to buy more Italian wine or if imported wine in general is going to go up in cost. For that matter even domestic wine may track upwards as retailers look to offset losses from imports.
I would think the last thing importers would do is raise prices on other wines. They'll need to sell MORE of them, raising prices isn't the way to do that.
My point is that they could increase the French, German, and Spanish wine prices less than the full 25% impact and increase sparkling, Italian and Portuguese slightly. I mean, you're probably correct in that they can use this as an excuse to push those regions more but I'm just curious as to how it will all play out.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#309 Post by Michae1 P0wers » October 7th, 2019, 12:41 pm

Nick Gangas wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 12:22 pm
Michae1 P0wers wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 8:48 am
For those who are saying that Champagne, Italian wine, and Portuguese wines are not included in the tariffs, I have to wonder if that really matters. Do you expect that importers and retailers will look to offset price increases in French, German, and Spanish wines by also increasing the prices of stock from other countries? Just curious if this will be a good excuse to buy more Italian wine or if imported wine in general is going to go up in cost. For that matter even domestic wine may track upwards as retailers look to offset losses from imports.
I'd think that those producers might object.
A valid point, and if markups are standardized or mandatory by percentages it might not be an option at all.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#310 Post by Mattstolz » October 7th, 2019, 2:22 pm

Mike Miller wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 1:47 pm

Yes and no. The WTO case only allows us to impose a 25% tariff, it doesn't require it. A more intelligent approach, I would argue, would be to take the WTO judgment and use it as a negotiating tool, with fairly short deadlines, and demand the elimination of some tariff, or non-tariff barrier to trade imposed by the EU. Negotiate a limit to Airbus subsidies. Negotiate an opening in the EU market for U.S. agricultural products. If those concessions are not forthcoming, or insufficient, than impose the tariff. The movement should always be, where possible, toward free trade, not away from it.
this is absolutely the strategy that should be used. the problem is that it assumes intelligence in the leadership.
Michae1 P0wers wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 8:48 am
For those who are saying that Champagne, Italian wine, and Portuguese wines are not included in the tariffs, I have to wonder if that really matters. Do you expect that importers and retailers will look to offset price increases in French, German, and Spanish wines by also increasing the prices of stock from other countries? Just curious if this will be a good excuse to buy more Italian wine or if imported wine in general is going to go up in cost. For that matter even domestic wine may track upwards as retailers look to offset losses from imports.
I can only guess that increased demand for Italian, Portuguese, and champagne will increase prices there as well.


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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#311 Post by John Morris » October 7th, 2019, 4:51 pm

AndrewH wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 9:58 am
For better or worse, Trump's trade/tariff strategy has been to threaten to implement or actually implement and then reduce for concessions.
Not with China. He occasionally feinted but then ratched up the tariffs several times.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#312 Post by Dan Kravitz » October 7th, 2019, 6:30 pm

The price scenario Nola Palomar outlines is different than mine, but the gist is the same. A 25% increase in price due to tariffs will result in a 25% increase in retail price, sometimes somewhat modified by producers and importers (but not wholesalers and retailers) tightening their belts. Wholesalers and retailers, rather than cut margins, will simply steer their customers to wines not subject to tariffs.

I have enjoyed Portuguese wines and imported a few for a while, but I find the suggestion that they can replace the French wines mentioned simply incorrect. Are they very good and excellent values? An emphatic yes. Are they comparable to Bordeaux, Burgundy, Rhone, Alsace? Not remotely. The Bordeaux comparison comes closest, but even that is a real stretch. I don't want to get into a squabble about this, but I've been to Portugal several times, made it a point to try as many wines as possible and the comparison is not remotely valid.

I find the tariffs somewhat bizarre, but also find the current administration extremely bizarre: I think Airbus is owned by Germany, France, UK and Spain. But Spain's wines are not targeted by tariffs. Of course, I am sadly devoid of the "great and unmatched wisdom" of the person who imposes the tariffs, so am totally unqualified to question his decisions.
Actually, I might well be qualified to question his decisions, but I do not have the power to do so.

It is impossible to predict either the short or long term consequences of these tariffs, except that if they persist through even the end of the year, the jobs of most or all of my employees will be collateral damage.

I would imagine that the impact of anything that lasted through the end of the year would be huge for producers of French wines below the highest levels. The $16 red Bordeaux that becomes $20 will find its market share gone to California, Washington, Argentina, Australia, Chile, South Africa and other places. Some of it may eventually come back, but not all, and not right away. Bordeaux and Burgundy at the $50+ level will also be affected. DRC and Lafite won't be touched at all... they are no longer the provenance of the 1%, who might hesitate, but of the 0.01%, for whom their price is literally pocket change.

Prices for non-tariff wines won't increase, because the fine wine business in general is under stress. As little as ten years ago, if an American consumer wanted an artisanal beverage, his choice was 'which wine'. Today, craft beer and craft spirits have made huge inroads. The wine market will be fine down the road. Craft beers can be good accompaniments at the table, but in the long run, not as good as wine. Craft spirits have their place before and after dinner, but not with. Enough millennials will come around to ensure a long and healthy future for the wine industry. Champagne has been a cutthroat market for a century. I don't see Produttori Barbaresco raising prices because Cornas has gotten more expensive. Oz will not assume that they can raise prices even 10% because Germany's prices have gone up 25%.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#313 Post by John Fagan » October 8th, 2019, 5:35 am

Eric Asimov just posted an article in the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/08/dini ... -wine.html Expect Higher Prices on Lighter Wines which focuses on importer, Jon-David Headrick who specializes in wines from the Loire. Mr. Headrick is quoted as saying "70 percent of my wine will be taxed."
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#314 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 6:13 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 6:30 pm
I think Airbus is owned by Germany, France, UK and Spain. But Spain's wines are not targeted by tariffs.
Incorrect. Wines from Spain are in the following section of the tariff announcement from the US Trade Representative

Part 10 – Products of France, Germany, Spain or the United Kingdom described below are
subject to additional import duties of 25 percent ad valorem:

Wine other than Tokay (not carbonated), not over 14% alcohol, in containers
not over 2 liters
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#315 Post by Jay Miller » October 8th, 2019, 6:23 am

The most expensive bottles in my incoming case are a Port and a Sherry (both over 14%). Despite David's pessimism I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the importer will manage to convince them to exempt them from the tariff and only pay on the Germans and Loires.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#316 Post by Michael Bowden » October 8th, 2019, 6:52 am

Dan Kravitz wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 6:30 pm
A 25% increase in price due to tariffs will result in a 25% increase in retail price, sometimes somewhat modified by producers and importers (but not wholesalers and retailers) tightening their belts. Wholesalers and retailers, rather than cut margins, will simply steer their customers to wines not subject to tariffs.
I would find this to be virtually impossible. How can a 25% increase on the front end only be 25% on the back end - especially when going through importers, distributors, and retailers? You even say in the next sentence that wholesalers and retailers won't cut margins. I would suspect that the producers won't be cutting prices either.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#317 Post by Ethan Abraham » October 8th, 2019, 7:24 am

Michael Bowden wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 6:52 am
Dan Kravitz wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 6:30 pm
A 25% increase in price due to tariffs will result in a 25% increase in retail price, sometimes somewhat modified by producers and importers (but not wholesalers and retailers) tightening their belts. Wholesalers and retailers, rather than cut margins, will simply steer their customers to wines not subject to tariffs.
I would find this to be virtually impossible. How can a 25% increase on the front end only be 25% on the back end - especially when going through importers, distributors, and retailers? You even say in the next sentence that wholesalers and retailers won't cut margins. I would suspect that the producers won't be cutting prices either.
Math.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#318 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 7:42 am

Picture1.jpg
Picture1.jpg (28.37 KiB) Viewed 1757 times
27.46 divided by 21.97=1.25, so 25% price increase at retail.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#319 Post by Ron Erickson » October 8th, 2019, 8:15 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 7:42 am
Picture1.jpg

27.46 divided by 21.97=1.25, so 25% price increase at retail.
It's a question of whether the middle folks try to make a profit off the tariff or not. IE the 27.46 or the 21.97 plus the 2.50 tariff= 23.47. Either way the consumer will pay over the airplane debate.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#320 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 8:30 am

I applied the markups to the landed cost which includes the tariff. Look closer.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#321 Post by Josh Grossman » October 8th, 2019, 8:34 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 7:42 am
Picture1.jpg

27.46 divided by 21.97=1.25, so 25% price increase at retail.
I saw Sneaker-guy, a.k.a. Lyle Fass, posted this on their blog in relation to one importer's call to arms:
https://rockssandfruit.blogspot.com/201 ... omise.html
I’ve been thinking a lot about how Fass Selections should handle the recently announced tariff increase on selected wines. It occurred to me this morning that I’ve been very selfish. I live a comfortable life in New York and I’ve been thinking only of how this new tariff will impact me and my customers. I have thought about it some more and I think that I’ve come up with a way to limit the damage to the winemakers and also to our industry as a whole.

First, I need to reiterate that the real victims here are the winemakers. They are now harvesting and

many are expected to pay for their grapes. Many of them have bank loans to pay on top of their operating and living expenses. This tariff could be a life or death situation for their businesses.

Of course anything that I do in isolation will have a minimal impact on our industry and the winemaking community. So I have decided to lay out the economics and propose a simple solution that can help contain any increases in prices so that the farmers do not have a significant decrease in their revenue.

Next, I’d like to give some background on wine industry pricing. Through standard 3 tier, a wine purchased at the winery that costs $10 will cost $30 at retail. If the price of the wine increases by $2.50, the retail price increases by $7.50. In this case, a $2.50 increase in price causes a $7.50 increase in price to the consumer, so the pass through is 3:1, even though the cost of the wine paid to the winery is only 33% of the cost of the wine paid by the consumer. The rest is shipping, sales costs and miscellaneous costs.

In order to minimize the pass through of these tariff costs, we as an industry must have a concerted and coordinated effort to minimize their impact. I am suggesting that we all agree to pass through only the tariff cost itself (a 1 to 1 pass through on a dollar basis). In the above example, the wine cost would increase only by $2.50 to $32.50 or 8.33%. This is a small enough increase in costs that it should not cause a major disruption. After all, we have exchange rate changes of that much with some frequency over a 5-10 year period.

One can see the difference in the sample pricing below (some of the markups may be off by a bit at certain levels and will certainly differ by wine, importer, distributor and retailer)...
Screen Shot 2019-10-08 at 11.31.04 AM.png
As you can see, the percentage markups at each level of the distribution system fall but the per bottle markups remain the same.
So each level of the distribution system would make the same profit per bottle under my proposal.

This will not be easy.
Importers will have to agree to this.
Distributors will have to agree to this.
Retail stores will have to agree to this.
And salespeople at importers and distributors will have to agree to this. They are typically paid 10-15% on the value of the wine that they sell. They will have to agree to take a commission on the price less the tariff amount. So if they were selling a wine that sold for $20 and the price increased to $22.50 because of the tariff, they would agree only to take a commission on the original price of $20. If the salespeople don’t agree to this, the importers and distributors will have to increase their prices more than the tariff amounts in order to pay their salespeople.

I know that this will entail some sacrifices in our industry. But I know that people in our industry are not only in it for the money but also because they love wine and wish to encourage and support the winemakers. I’m requesting that everyone I know E-Mail me and I will add their name to the list of people signing up for this. I will try and update the list daily.

International trade is a very complex topic and I can’t hope to try and solve it. But I think that if we work together, we can try to mitigate the effects of this situation in our little corner of the world.

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#322 Post by c fu » October 8th, 2019, 9:04 am

is the cost of the tariff based on the winery price or the price the importer will be selling it at?
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#323 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 9:14 am

Tariffs are applied to the value of the imported goods. Importers will declare their price, as that keeps the tariffs as low as possible.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#324 Post by Alan Rath » October 8th, 2019, 9:39 am

Lyle's logic is fine (and sensible) for a smaller, independent importer, and wholesalers/retailers who are also small and independent. Passing through the original tariff amount without markup would (if sales remained the same) net the same absolute profit at each stage. Two factors work against this: elasticity of demand tells us that sales won't stay constant, they will drop, at least somewhat (for those wines that are not cherries, anyway); and large corporations, particularly public corporations, won't be able to just pass through the tariffs without taking a hit to their overall reported bottom line.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#325 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 9:41 am

Large corporations, particularly public corporations will be able to report the net impact of tariffs in their quarterly earnings, and if they can keep EPS the same as without tariffs they will be just fine.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#326 Post by Sh@n A » October 8th, 2019, 1:01 pm

Does anyone know how:
1) Italian wines bought in other markets are tariff'd? E.G., if you purchased an Italian wine from France or UK?
2) Whether the tariffs indeed fall away in any calendar year after $7.5BN has been reached, and thus the tariffs would not be in effect for full calendar year 2020?

Thanks
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#327 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 1:27 pm

It is what it is rather than where you bought it from.

Italian wine remains Italian wine even if you buy it from France.

If the $7.5B is reached then the tariffs could phase out for the rest a a year, but given that most of the airplane stuff won't ultimately get caught (since Airbus builds most US ordered planes in Alabama) wine, cheese and olive lovers are going to get hit for a long time.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#328 Post by Nola Palomar » October 8th, 2019, 3:03 pm

Sh@n A wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 1:01 pm
Does anyone know how:
1) Italian wines bought in other markets are tariff'd? E.G., if you purchased an Italian wine from France or UK?
2) Whether the tariffs indeed fall away in any calendar year after $7.5BN has been reached, and thus the tariffs would not be in effect for full calendar year 2020?

Thanks
Got to have the COLA and Invoice to get them in, aka screwed....
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#329 Post by Nola Palomar » October 8th, 2019, 3:11 pm

Anyone want to collaborate with me and set up an EVOO bottling line and sales in the States? I know a lot of producers that would be very willing... Remember EVOO is not like wine, it is unregulated other than making sure the facility is clean and passes basic sanitary and FDA / USDA inspections. Oh, and I have the import licensing, FDA, and a warehouse here already.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#330 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 4:07 pm

Is the olive oil tariff only on bottled oil? I have to admit that I have not reviewed the oil tariffs in great detail.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#331 Post by Nola Palomar » October 8th, 2019, 4:23 pm

Yes

1509.10.20. Virgin olive oil and its fractions, whether or not refined, not chemically modified, weighing with the immediate container under 18 kg

1509.90.20 Olive oil, other than virgin olive oil, and its fractions, not chemically modified, weighing with the immediate container under 18 kg
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#332 Post by Edward H. Earles » October 8th, 2019, 4:32 pm

Nola, would this tariff apply to your Jamon Iberico?

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#333 Post by Nola Palomar » October 8th, 2019, 4:45 pm

Edward H. Earles wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 4:32 pm
Nola, would this tariff apply to your Jamon Iberico?
Yes, as well as the mussels.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#334 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 8th, 2019, 4:53 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 4:23 pm
Yes

1509.10.20. Virgin olive oil and its fractions, whether or not refined, not chemically modified, weighing with the immediate container under 18 kg

1509.90.20 Olive oil, other than virgin olive oil, and its fractions, not chemically modified, weighing with the immediate container under 18 kg
So bring it in big.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#335 Post by Nola Palomar » October 9th, 2019, 7:47 am

Well yeah, that’s why I asked if anyone wanted to collaborate w me?

I doubt anyone here wants to buy EVOO in 20 liter bottles, bags or containers right? Easier to bring it in in 1000 liter palletanks and bottle here. I just need to finish up the infrastructure and partners.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#336 Post by Victor Hong » October 9th, 2019, 8:31 am

John Morris wrote:
October 2nd, 2019, 2:32 pm
Uh-oh. Time to stock up.

The US government announced this this afternoon. It's 10% on aircraft and 25% on other EU "industrial and agricultural products," including "Irish and Scotch whiskies; wine, olives, cheese; as well as certain pork products [OMG! Prosciutto??], butter and yogurt," to take effect Oct. 15. The World Trade Organization authorized the US to impose tariffs on $7.5 billion worth of EU goods because of subsidies to Airbus.

Bloomberg story
Reuters story
Will olive oil "imported from Italy" hence be re-labeled, as imported from their true production countries, like Lebanon, Israel, etc.?
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#337 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 9th, 2019, 8:42 am

"Imported from" is not a declaration of Country of Origin.

Check back with me when you know what you are talking about.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#338 Post by Nola Palomar » October 9th, 2019, 8:54 am

Yeah, I have been saying this for forever. Italy does not produce enough olive oil for its own consumption. They buy Spanish Olive Oil, blend it, bottle it in Italy and sell it as Italian Olive Oil.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#339 Post by Victor Hong » October 9th, 2019, 9:14 am

Nola Palomar wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 8:54 am
Yeah, I have been saying this for forever. Italy does not produce enough olive oil for its own consumption. They buy Spanish Olive Oil, blend it, bottle it in Italy and sell it as Italian Olive Oil.
You Spanish producers must be elated about the high---but hidden---regard among Italian merchants. newhere
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#340 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 9th, 2019, 9:16 am

Nola Palomar wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 8:54 am
Yeah, I have been saying this for forever. Italy does not produce enough olive oil for its own consumption. They buy Spanish Olive Oil, blend it, bottle it in Italy and sell it as Italian Olive Oil.
And as long as it is majority Italian then can likely still label it as a product of Italy.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#341 Post by Nola Palomar » October 9th, 2019, 10:00 am

D@vid Bu3ker wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 9:16 am
Nola Palomar wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 8:54 am
Yeah, I have been saying this for forever. Italy does not produce enough olive oil for its own consumption. They buy Spanish Olive Oil, blend it, bottle it in Italy and sell it as Italian Olive Oil.
And as long as it is majority Italian then can likely still label it as a product of Italy.
David, Do you know of an entity that monitors or regulates that volume or the blending of Italian Olive Oil?

I posted this in the Olive Oil thread a while back. Here I have included exports as well.

Comparative figures for Spanish and Italian production vs consumption for 2017/ 2018 and 2018/2019
http://www.internationaloliveoil.org/es ... il-figures

In 1000 Tonnes = 1 kt = 1000000 kg.

Production:
Spain.... 1,260.1 (2017/18).... 1,598.9 (2018/19) +127%
Italy....... 428.9 (2017/18)...... 265.0 (2018/19) -62% (They have a huge blight going on)
USA........ 16.0 (2017/18) ........ 16.0 (2018/19)

Consumption:
Spain.... 475.1 (2017/18).... 525.0 (2018/19)
Italy...... 566.1 (2017/18)...... 500.0 (2018/19)

Exportation:
Spain.... 292.0 (2017/18)...... 320.0 (2018/19)
Italy...... 186.4 (2017/18)...... 185.8 (2018/19)

The USA is the number one world IMPORTER of Olive Oil at 310.0 China was way far back at 42.0 for the 2018/2019 figures. Spain is the number one world PRODUCER of Olive Oil.

My point here is that there is NO WAY the oil Italy is exporting is Italian Olive Oil or the majority of blend of Italian Olive Oil. It is Spanish, produced in Andalucia, mostly Jaen and Granada. So adding this tariff to Spanish Olive Oil is a big deal.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#342 Post by Nola Palomar » October 9th, 2019, 10:04 am

Victor Hong wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 9:14 am
Nola Palomar wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 8:54 am
Yeah, I have been saying this for forever. Italy does not produce enough olive oil for its own consumption. They buy Spanish Olive Oil, blend it, bottle it in Italy and sell it as Italian Olive Oil.
You Spanish producers must be elated about the high---but hidden---regard among Italian merchants. newhere
To be clear, that blending may not be Italian olive oil either, there is a big market for safflower and other nonflavor enhancing oils.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#343 Post by Victor Hong » October 9th, 2019, 10:10 am

Nola Palomar wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 10:00 am
.......... So adding this tariff to Spanish Olive Oil is a big deal.
Maybe, it is being confused with the Mexican stuff. [smileyvault-ban.gif]
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#344 Post by Nola Palomar » October 9th, 2019, 10:22 am

Finally, someone gets it!!!
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#345 Post by D@vid Bu3ker » October 9th, 2019, 11:58 am

Country of Origin declarations are required when bringing in goods through US Customs. Fraudulent declarations can be met with heavy penalties, but there's no way for Customs to test oil to know its source.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#346 Post by Kelly Walker » October 9th, 2019, 12:52 pm

So an imported oil that is a blend of 50% Spanish and 50% Italian would only pay the tariff on 50% of the value of the oil?
White wines matter

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#347 Post by Nola Palomar » October 9th, 2019, 1:06 pm

Kelly Walker wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 12:52 pm
So an imported oil that is a blend of 50% Spanish and 50% Italian would only pay the tariff on 50% of the value of the oil?
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif] [wink.gif]
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#348 Post by Kelly Walker » October 9th, 2019, 1:34 pm

Nola Palomar wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 1:06 pm
Kelly Walker wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 12:52 pm
So an imported oil that is a blend of 50% Spanish and 50% Italian would only pay the tariff on 50% of the value of the oil?
[scratch.gif] [scratch.gif] [wink.gif]
If the tariff is applied based on the country of origin of the product then would not only that portion of the product that the tariff is applicable to be taxed? I am assuming the tariff does not apply to Italian olive oil.
White wines matter

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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#349 Post by Neal.Mollen » October 9th, 2019, 1:41 pm

Rare Wine Co sells oceans of "Tuscan Olive Oils" every year, from specific Tuscan producers. If the oil is not really Tuscan, it would be a fraud, and I do not believe they are committing a fraud.
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Re: US to impose 25% tariff on European wine, cheese, etc.

#350 Post by Kelly Walker » October 9th, 2019, 2:03 pm

Neal.Mollen wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 1:41 pm
Rare Wine Co sells oceans of "Tuscan Olive Oils" every year, from specific Tuscan producers. If the oil is not really Tuscan, it would be a fraud, and I do not believe they are committing a fraud.
Manny sources the very best oils from Tuscany. Who would claim otherwise? But anyone who is passionate about olive oil should read the book Extra Virgin.
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